Abortion page 67

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Further, wouldn’t it cause a lot of damage digging around for the fetus?

 
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Originally posted by TheLoneLucas:

Further, wouldn’t it cause a lot of damage digging around for the fetus?

I dont know much about the process, but I guess it depends on when is the fethus removed. If it is still just a small clump of cells, probably not.

Originally posted by ParaNoir:

@Axl: I don’t have a problem with somebody giving their embryo to a different mother, if that’s what they want to do.

Are you suggesting it as an alternative to abortion? Firstly, the amount of unwanted pregnancies would far outweigh the amount of women seeking embryos (especially with the increase in fertility treatment). Secondly, there are already a lot of children waiting to be adopted – and I would not want to reduce the chances of an adoption taking place. And lastly, I can’t imagine many pregnant people wanting to give their embryos away. I would certainly pick abortion over giving my embryo to somebody else (unless of course, I had chosen to get pregnant in order to give my embryo to another person).

Some clarification on this third reason might be necessary. I mean, you dont want to keep your baby… But you dont want anyone else to keep it either? Do you actually have killing the baby as a objective, or…

No offense, but I see abortion as a last resource. While, legally speaking, for reasons that I believe I clarified, I believe abortion should be legal up to the 10th week, and after that only in case of rape or threat to the woman health, in my own personal life, if I was a woman, I probably wouldnt abort unless I was absolutely sure there were no other options for the child. If my own hipotethical girlfriend wanted to abort, I wouldnt stop her, but by more absurd then jhco arguments can be sometimes, he has a point: This is not the kind of choice to be made casually. It is not as if you were going to choose whether you will have cereal or bread for breakfast, but if your son will live, or die. Whatever you choose, you have to be absolutely sure of that. Therefore, I would give my honest opinion, make sure she is truly sure that this is what she wants and there will be no regrets. Sorry if I sound harsh for controlling your body, but hey: If in the future, you start thinking about how your son could have grew to be or something, then do so without having the right of saiyng nobody warned you.

 
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Do you actually have killing the baby as a objective

Since when is anybody killing any babies? There are no babies involved in abortions. If I wanted an abortion, I would have one as soon as possible. It would not resemble a baby, and it isn’t a baby.

You’re right, abortion is a last resort. And of course the decision wouldn’t be made casually – it isn’t an easy decision. A lot of pro-life people act like pro-choice women run around having unprotected sex every day and popping to the hospital after school/work for a quick, casual abortion. Abortion is not an easy decision.

If in the future, you start thinking about how your son could have grew to be or something, then do so without having the right of saiyng nobody warned you.

Is this relevant? If I had an abortion and regretted it, how is it anybody’s fault but my own? If the decision to abort is made rationally and without pressure, it’s likely that the woman will be happy with her decision. Many talk about feeling relief – not regret. Of the accounts I have read when women experience regret, often the decision was made under pressure from family members or a partner.

Oops, forgot: clarification of the third reason. I would not give my embryo away for the same reason I would not put my baby up for adoption. If I produce a child, I want to give that child the best life I can. I want to make sure I do a good job of raising it. I can’t make sure my child has a good life if I don’t get to raise my child. I would abort my embryo, and when the time is right, love my child.

 
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Originally posted by ParaNoir:
Do you actually have killing the baby as a objective

Since when is anybody killing any babies? There are no babies involved in abortions. If I wanted an abortion, I would have one as soon as possible. It would not resemble a baby, and it isn’t a baby.

You’re right, abortion is a last resort. And of course the decision wouldn’t be made casually – it isn’t an easy decision. A lot of pro-life people act like pro-choice women run around having unprotected sex every day and popping to the hospital after school/work for a quick, casual abortion. Abortion is not an easy decision.

If in the future, you start thinking about how your son could have grew to be or something, then do so without having the right of saiyng nobody warned you.

Is this relevant? If I had an abortion and regretted it, how is it anybody’s fault but my own? If the decision to abort is made rationally and without pressure, it’s likely that the woman will be happy with her decision. Many talk about feeling relief – not regret. Of the accounts I have read when women experience regret, often the decision was made under pressure from family members or a partner.

Oops, forgot: clarification of the third reason. I would not give my embryo away for the same reason I would not put my baby up for adoption. If I produce a child, I want to give that child the best life I can. I want to make sure I do a good job of raising it. I can’t make sure my child has a good life if I don’t get to raise my child. I would abort my embryo, and when the time is right, love my child.

I can see your point, and quite frankly, yes, I agree with it.

 
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That is actually heavily relative, sir. Most parents that want to adopt actually want to have a child, but cant. Therefore, while it would be too idealistic of my part to assume childs will never wind up being adopted by bad parents, I dont see why would they do not take care of the adopted child, just as they would take care of their own blood child.

As a clarification, I meant in the adoption center.

 
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I have a question.

Is an ectopic pregnancy a murder when it has to be aborted, or the mother will die?

 
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Originally posted by MooseDishes:

I have a question.

Is an ectopic pregnancy a murder when it has to be aborted, or the mother will die?

I don’t know, but I don’t think it qualifies, since it isn’t viable (not attached to the lining of the main uterus) and is in the process of miscarrying.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by MooseDishes:

I have a question.

Is an ectopic pregnancy a murder when it has to be aborted, or the mother will die?

I don’t know, but I don’t think it qualifies, since it isn’t viable (not attached to the lining of the main uterus) and is in the process of miscarrying.

Yet, it is fertilized

This isn’t about being qualified or disqualified, it, by the standards of some people, is a human being.

 
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Originally posted by MooseDishes:

This isn’t about being qualified or disqualified, it, by the standards of some people, is a human being.

But nobody reasonable would blame someone for a naturally occuring miscarriage.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by MooseDishes:

This isn’t about being qualified or disqualified, it, by the standards of some people, is a human being.

But nobody reasonable would blame someone for a naturally occuring miscarriage.

It wouldn’t naturally miscarriage. The mother would die if she did not have the fetus removed immediately.

 
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Re-thinking an Idea that I have had, or many of you have already probably discussed…If the living psychology of a recognizable human being could be embodied in something that had not been fertilized (Such as Alphonse Elric in Full Metal Alchemist), then we would theoretically need to completely change the entire definition of a human and of murder.

IF (highly unlikely without the transfer of the living brain) there were a possible way to transfer a fetus’ “soul”/thought processes onto such a physical vessel in aforesaid example of Alphonse Elric, and the original fertilized body dies, the definition of murder for that action would walk a very fine line.

Then I begin to wonder even more, what would happen if a human soul were to exist without the beginning of fertilization unto such a situation?

(If discussed already here, I’m going to start looking back in this thread to go find it)

 
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^ That seems more philosophical, rather than political.

 
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Philosophy seems more interesting, haha. Besides, why is it that the two are not compatible? Philosophy should guide politics, not the other way around.

 
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Originally posted by slasher:
Philosophy should guide politics, not the other way around.

As long as you don’t get religion mixed in there.

 
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Of course. I’m the man when it comes to separation of church and state, however (as you probably know) John Locke’s philosophies of classical liberalism were mainly derived from religious beliefs. There should be enough separation for reasonable measures, however politics can learn a bit from every side of philosophy (even if it may be from religious sources).

 
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I’m sure I don’t want a child, thus I don’t try to have sex unprotected anyways, but, in the case that I did get pregnant, I would most certainly look for an abortion. Having a boyfriend who was in foster care / orphanage (Yes, they still have those in parts of Italy) I wouldn’t really want to have a child and put them through something like that. I would want my real, original parents. But, I myself and many others are not ready, or feel ready, to take care of a child. Especially not a baby.

I tend to think of unborn fetuses as animals. Call me cruel. If you can kill a dog for being “bad”, then you can kill an unborn fetus for not being the way you want it also, (alive). Have you ever seen a fetus? I don’t find them appealing either, but that’s just me. That may be an unborn child, but I don’t think of it as taking away a life, even though it is. I think of it as getting rid of something that’s unwanted. I can’t explain why, but I just really don’t think it’s wrong. Call me cruel. If you’re having an abortion anyway, there must be a good reason for it; it’s not a really easy decision to make, as stated above. And even if you don’t have a reason for it, well, it’s your own decision.

 
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It’s very rational to abort a fetus that can not be taken care of.
It’s irrational to sire a child into this world, which you know you can not take care of.
Parenting is a huge responsibility, and should not be taken lightly.

All these opponents of abortion are just hanging onto irrational, and emotional qualms.

 
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Originally posted by MooseDishes:

It wouldn’t naturally miscarriage. The mother would die if she did not have the fetus removed immediately.

If the mother would die the fetus would lose it’s host and die. So you have to see at that point whether you want to lose one life or two? Sounds like a pretty obvious answer.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by MooseDishes:

It wouldn’t naturally miscarriage. The mother would die if she did not have the fetus removed immediately.

If the mother would die the fetus would lose it’s host and die. So you have to see at that point whether you want to lose one life or two? Sounds like a pretty obvious answer.

Precisely.

The people in this thread wouldn’t think about an ectopic abortion, because it would then go against everything they believe in. They’re only targeting the shit they can argue without losing.

 
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Originally posted by Draconavin:

It’s very rational to abort a fetus that can not be taken care of.
It’s irrational to sire a child into this world, which you know you can not take care of.
Parenting is a huge responsibility, and should not be taken lightly.

All these opponents of abortion are just hanging onto irrational, and emotional qualms.

I see no reason why we shouldn’t apply that same argument to orphans and the poor also.

</sarcasm>
 
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The fetus isn’t aware it exists and yada yada if it’s early enough. A child/orphan is already born and a potential resource.

 
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Originally posted by TheLoneLucas:

The fetus isn’t aware it exists and yada yada if it’s early enough. A child/orphan is already born and a potential resource.

But a fetus is also a potential resource, for uhh…

Stem cells?

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by TheLoneLucas:

The fetus isn’t aware it exists and yada yada if it’s early enough. A child/orphan is already born and a potential resource.

But a fetus is also a potential resource, for uhh…

Stem cells?

That’s you know.

Already conscious.

 
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