Feminism and Sexual Equality page 9

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Originally posted by helltank:

Sharangir:The law says that it’s okay for women to rape men. Obviously that indicates that they think women can’t rape men, therefore they’re biased towards men.

OR MAYBE IT’S BECAUSE THEY’RE BIASED TOWARDS WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ALLOW THEM TO RAPE WHOMEVER THEY LIKE

finally a comment not full of stupid. i hate the tumblr generation whose idea of sexual equality is “feminism will solve all men’s problems and any problems it doesn’t solve are due to patriarchy and men being rapists. anyone who disagrees with me is a misogynist.”.

 
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My only issue with feminism and Sexual equality is what happens with them.
People pick and choose.

Feminism, well most feminists I meet still want certain benefits over guys that they have had for a long time. Although they might not be feminists, they claim to be and seem to be the majority.
That’s not fair now is it?
Women are seen as more favorable for the adoption system, or worth more with rape, I honestly can’t think of too many examples, so there.

Sexual equality is the same way. We pick and choose.
People claim something isn’t a sexuality just because they don’t like it, so the call it a philia and then disregard it.
I won’t name examples simply because I don’t want people to shit up this thread arguing about them.

>Are the genders equal?
Not in my opinion, each one has their benefits depending on the situation.

>Does each gender have certain rights and privileges?
Yes.

 
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Originally posted by Murder_Machine:
Originally posted by helltank:

Sharangir:The law says that it’s okay for women to rape men. Obviously that indicates that they think women can’t rape men, therefore they’re biased towards men.

OR MAYBE IT’S BECAUSE THEY’RE BIASED TOWARDS WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ALLOW THEM TO RAPE WHOMEVER THEY LIKE

finally a comment not full of stupid. i hate the tumblr generation whose idea of sexual equality is “feminism will solve all men’s problems and any problems it doesn’t solve are due to patriarchy and men being rapists. anyone who disagrees with me is a misogynist.”.

To helltank: If you can give me some reasonable evidence of that, I will gladly agree with you. For not sure where you live, but speaking as someone who has a Brazian lawyer for a mother, and a Brazilian district atternay( This is what they call it where you live, right? ) for a father, I dont remember EVER hearing of such a thing…

And to Murder: That depends: What definition of feminism are we using here? I am totally for equal rights, which is what the variety of feminism described in the OP intends to. But I really dislike those arrogant woman who act as if man such as myself were primitive beings. I mean, when are people going to learn equal means EQUAL?

 
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I think man and woman are equal in worth but different in functions.

 
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axl:That’s probably because men are too ashamed to report that they have been raped. They might even have been drugged(that’s the most practical way to rape someone, man or woman) and can’t remember anything.

Or perhaps they made a report but the police didn’t have enough evidence to bring the woman to court.

 
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Originally posted by axlkoegoskyeg:
Originally posted by Murder_Machine:
Originally posted by helltank:

Sharangir:The law says that it’s okay for women to rape men. Obviously that indicates that they think women can’t rape men, therefore they’re biased towards men.

OR MAYBE IT’S BECAUSE THEY’RE BIASED TOWARDS WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ALLOW THEM TO RAPE WHOMEVER THEY LIKE

finally a comment not full of stupid. i hate the tumblr generation whose idea of sexual equality is “feminism will solve all men’s problems and any problems it doesn’t solve are due to patriarchy and men being rapists. anyone who disagrees with me is a misogynist.”.

To helltank: If you can give me some reasonable evidence of that, I will gladly agree with you. For not sure where you live, but speaking as someone who has a Brazian lawyer for a mother, and a Brazilian district atternay( This is what they call it where you live, right? ) for a father, I dont remember EVER hearing of such a thing…

And to Murder: That depends: What definition of feminism are we using here? I am totally for equal rights, which is what the variety of feminism described in the OP intends to. But I really dislike those arrogant woman who act as if man such as myself were primitive beings. I mean, when are people going to learn equal means EQUAL?

i’m talking about the tumblr kids who think radical feminism is the solution to all gender problems and that all men are Schrodinger’s rapist. If you are for equal rights check out egalitarianism. i think a lot of people who identify as feminists would be egalitarian if they knew what it was. I don’t think people are equal yet, we have a long way to go. Girls and boys should be taught from a young age that while they’re different, that’s what makes them awesome and they should respect each other’s differences rather than be afraid of it. we need to ignore people who scream rape and misogyny if you so much as talk to them (Rebecca Watson), stop giving them attention. i wouldn’t say feminism is equal rights, equal rights is Egalitarianism. For women who get called whores online and whine about it, why is that considered out of the ordinary? You go online, there’s always going to be idiots, the idiots will call you names and say disgusting things. they need to ignore it and it will stop. as long as there are articles like on jezebel complaining about trolls, that’s just giving the trolls more ammo.

 
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I am a total egalitarian. While this means that I treat girls fairly and give them an equal chance if, say, I was picking people to play soccer with me, it also means that I treat them exactly like I do a boy.

Lots of people say they want equality, yet they complain when I hit a girl. I hit boys, why not hit a girl?

 
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Originally posted by helltank:

axl:That’s probably because men are too ashamed to report that they have been raped. They might even have been drugged(that’s the most practical way to rape someone, man or woman) and can’t remember anything.

Or perhaps they made a report but the police didn’t have enough evidence to bring the woman to court.

The secound and the third can just as well happen with woman. The first kinda too, although by different reasons. It is not rare for a rape victin to feel unpure, as if she had seduced its rapist somehow, what is NOT true, of course, but you cant blaim me for human psycology.

Obviously, I am not saiyng action shouldnt be taken about woman that rape man. I am merely saiyng it already is.

Originally posted by helltank:

I am a total egalitarian. While this means that I treat girls fairly and give them an equal chance if, say, I was picking people to play soccer with me, it also means that I treat them exactly like I do a boy.


Lots of people say they want equality, yet they complain when I hit a girl. I hit boys, why not hit a girl?

Generally, I hit neither. But, if am I to be punched by someone, boy or girl, I WILL punch back.

It is a bit annoiyng how people ignore abuse when it is the woman who commits the abuse. Merely because it is rarer, and the girl is generally physically weaker, it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

 
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It is worth noting that although our upper body strength is weaker, a woman can kick harder than any man ever could. This is because of the way our hips are set, which gives us a much greater torque.

Once you’re on the ground, a woman who knows what she is doing, can pulverise you with her kicks, far more bloodily than you’d get from punches from a man. Kick like a mule is very apt.

 
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Equality is a joke. We are not equal. There is no such thing as equality.

In my idea of a perfect world, all people would be treated with respect and judged on merit rather than race, religion, nationality, or gender, but in reality, this isn’t the case.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

It is worth noting that although our upper body strength is weaker, a woman can kick harder than any man ever could. This is because of the way our hips are set, which gives us a much greater torque.

Once you’re on the ground, a woman who knows what she is doing, can pulverise you with her kicks, far more bloodily than you’d get from punches from a man. Kick like a mule is very apt.

He. Assuming I was to see myself in this situation, my classic reaction would be simply to grab the incoming feet with my hands, and go on, pushing the feet upwards until it twists. Although, if I get REALLY unlucky, I might wind up falling in a angle such that one of my arms will be crushed by my own body weight. But that is unlickely, deemed as, if I have a advantage in physical combat, is a unusual physical resistance. If your average guy struck me in the head with a baseball bat with all he has got, my classic reaction would be just to shout a insult and continue walking as if the blow didnt happened.

 
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Originally posted by axlkoegoskyeg:

He. Assuming I was to see myself in this situation, my classic reaction would be simply to grab the incoming feet with my hands, and go on, pushing the feet upwards until it twists. Although, if I get REALLY unlucky, I might wind up falling in a angle such that one of my arms will be crushed by my own body weight.

Personally, I’d use the taser first, and follow up with physical violence later if necessary. (i.e. if the first taser blast didn’t do more than slow you down, I’d need to add a little something to the second one.) Two or three kicks to the windpipe would be a good way to slow the would-be assaulter down further. I’d need two or three because my aim is piss-poor. I’d aim at the windpipe and probably end up breaking his nose or his solar plexus the first time.

But then I don’t initiate physical violence, only defend, so my strategies reflect that. Someone like Helltank, who initiates a fight, is going to have a very different approach to the problem.

If your average guy struck me in the head with a baseball bat with all he has got, my classic reaction would be just to shout a insult and continue walking as if the blow didnt happened.

An advantage of not having your central nervous system located inside your body? (no brain present, means no concussion.)

 
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Originally posted by Murder_Machine:
Originally posted by helltank:

Sharangir:The law says that it’s okay for women to rape men. Obviously that indicates that they think women can’t rape men, therefore they’re biased towards men.

OR MAYBE IT’S BECAUSE THEY’RE BIASED TOWARDS WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ALLOW THEM TO RAPE WHOMEVER THEY LIKE

finally a comment not full of stupid. i hate the tumblr generation whose idea of sexual equality is “feminism will solve all men’s problems and any problems it doesn’t solve are due to patriarchy and men being rapists. anyone who disagrees with me is a misogynist.”.

i love that comment.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by axlkoegoskyeg:

He. Assuming I was to see myself in this situation, my classic reaction would be simply to grab the incoming feet with my hands, and go on, pushing the feet upwards until it twists. Although, if I get REALLY unlucky, I might wind up falling in a angle such that one of my arms will be crushed by my own body weight.

Personally, I’d use the taser first, and follow up with physical violence later if necessary. (i.e. if the first taser blast didn’t do more than slow you down, I’d need to add a little something to the second one.) Two or three kicks to the windpipe would be a good way to slow the would-be assaulter down further. I’d need two or three because my aim is piss-poor. I’d aim at the windpipe and probably end up breaking his nose or his solar plexus the first time.

But then I don’t initiate physical violence, only defend, so my strategies reflect that. Someone like Helltank, who initiates a fight, is going to have a very different approach to the problem.

If your average guy struck me in the head with a baseball bat with all he has got, my classic reaction would be just to shout a insult and continue walking as if the blow didnt happened.

An advantage of not having your central nervous system located inside your body? (no brain present, means no concussion.)

Nope, just really, really thick skulled. In both meanings of the word, honestly. I been punched, kicked, bashed, and even bitten in various parts of my body without suffering more then a couple of red marks. Obviously, I am pretty sure that a weapon could still injure me( I never got shot. And I am not stupid enough to shoot myself just to know if it can hurt me, as most likely, it WILL ).

I almost never initiate violence myself. When I enter combat, my motivation will generally be not so much destroiyng the enemy, as it would be to simply overwhelm it in such a way it will have little choice but to surrender. Had to use it a lot with excessivelly persistent bullies. One of my favourite tactics against a individual enemy, assuming no weapons on either of us, is giving him a fairly weak push with my hand, just strong enough so it loses balance, then giving a stronger push in direction to a wall and immobilizing him against it. If the enemy keeps triyng to hit me in that position-And it will be in a very bad angle for it-I would generally simply apply more and more pressure, until he EVENTUALLY surrenders.

 
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@Murder machine, Sharangir

For honest criticism of the feminist movement, by an active feminist, try this. Here’s a pdf by a different scholar that covers similar ground.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but all the links you two posted are bullshit. Feminism is in need of criticism, yes, but not from fucking reddit. On the other side of that, feminism is in need of criticism, because criticism makes stuff stronger. You’re just as much a dipshit if you believe wholeheartedly in the MR movement – self indulgent whining disguised as ‘egalitarianism’, very good! – as you would be if you think there’s nothing wrong with modern western feminism.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

@Murder machine, Sharangir

For honest criticism of the feminist movement, by an active feminist, try this. Here’s a pdf by a different scholar that covers similar ground.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but all the links you two posted are bullshit. Feminism is in need of criticism, yes, but not from fucking reddit. On the other side of that, feminism is in need of criticism, because criticism makes stuff stronger. You’re just as much a dipshit if you believe wholeheartedly in the MR movement – self indulgent whining disguised as ‘egalitarianism’, very good! – as you would be if you think there’s nothing wrong with modern western feminism.

I don’t take all my criticism of feminism from reddit. Do we need to make feminism stronger? It’s already claiming it’s about “social equality”. Yeah, make women more socially equal than men. As for self-indulgent whining, how is complaining about unfair treatment self-indulgent whining? I’d say tumble feminists do all the self-indulgent whining “WHY DO MEN NOT FIND ME ATTRACTIVEOMG YOU LOOKED AT ME YOU MISOGYNIST RAPIST!”
I did not say anywhere that MR is egalitarianism. Egalitarianism is wanting equal rights for everyone. if you whole-heartedly believe in “modern western feminism” you are a dipshit. What is wrong with men complaining about unfair treatment? Switch the sexes and that’s pretty much how “feminism” started. it’s ok for women to bitch and moan constantly but if a man so much as points out he’s got problems everyone shits on him.

 
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You cannot be ‘more equal’. you can only be equal, superior or inferior. Equality is the goal. That means punishing women who abuse men, as muchas it does punishing men who abuse women.

 
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also, feminists and manginas need to stop shoving their nonsense into hollywood.

im sick of having men be humiliated in movies.

make decent movies for once.

 
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Originally posted by Galdos:

also, feminists and manginas need to stop shoving their nonsense into hollywood.

im sick of having men be humiliated in movies.

make decent movies for once.

The film industry is only interested in making money, films will be made based on what they think will earn the most money, if there is a market for films that humiliate men then that’s what will be made for the market.

I’m not exactly sure what films you are referring to though, in my experience films are still as predictable as ever and all that has changed is you now get more helpless men and strong women rather than the men saving the world while the women just scream (though that is still the case in many a film)

 
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Originally posted by Murder_Machine:
Originally posted by helltank:

Sharangir:The law says that it’s okay for women to rape men. Obviously that indicates that they think women can’t rape men, therefore they’re biased towards men.

OR MAYBE IT’S BECAUSE THEY’RE BIASED TOWARDS WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ALLOW THEM TO RAPE WHOMEVER THEY LIKE

finally a comment not full of stupid. i hate the tumblr generation whose idea of sexual equality is “feminism will solve all men’s problems and any problems it doesn’t solve are due to patriarchy and men being rapists. anyone who disagrees with me is a misogynist.”.

Murder_Machine… please, stop arguing, you can’t even read what I wrote. It just goes wooosh, way above your head.

Either that, or you just love willfully sabotaging social justice movements and take rights away from oppressed groups in society. Name ONE thing that the MR movement has done for men, I can name quite a lot of things that feminism has done for men.

 
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In all honesty, I don’t believe the genders are equal, for the exact fact that I believe our society is unfair to men. Women aren’t allowed to join the army or have certain jobs because of how they’re built, while men are left doing all the work and having hell being given to them for doing what a woman should be doing herself. I think more work should be done to make the genders equal, like treating a woman how one would treat a man. Women are not delicate, frail, dolls made of porcelain, we are made of the same things men are, and though I feel people should treat everyone with respect and how they’d like to be treated, I don’t believe women should get special rights due to their appearance.

A close friend of mine once told me this: “Women and men can only be equal as soon as a woman walks around topless with a beer belly”. Meaning that the reason we can’t have equality is because women are too “stuck up” to realize that they don’t act the same, or do the same work, as a man. I think part of the reason most men don’t have the respect for a women is because they’re unable to let themselves go and actually BE themselves as opposed to how they feel is the “perfect” girl.

Men and women are ruled by what people believe to be the normal behavior. It’s like this: There are manly colours, and there are girly colours, if a man is seen with a certain trait or interest that varies from the popular belief, they are automatically considered a pussy or something among those lines. If a woman is seen speaking her mind and her own beliefs, regardless to how others feel, she is a witch and should be burned in hell. (Yet it’s ironic how if a woman is a tomboy she’s no different than any other woman and it’s alright.)

This is why I don’t believe men and women are equal.

 
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Men and women are ruled by what people believe to be the normal behavior. It’s like this: There are manly colours, and there are girly colours, if a man is seen with a certain trait or interest that varies from the popular belief, they are automatically considered a pussy or something among those lines. If a woman is seen speaking her mind and her own beliefs, regardless to how others feel, she is a witch and should be burned in hell. (Yet it’s ironic how if a woman is a tomboy she’s no different than any other woman and it’s alright.)

That gender-specific colour scheme is less than a century old.

No one except a redneck in the deep south or the Taliban would link a woman to witchcraft just for speaking her mind nowadays.

Many of your arguments seem to follow from either anecdotal knowledge or behavioral patterns easily corrected. I’ve found, for example, that men who major in women’s studies are indeed pussies. But that’s just my perception of them – I was at a wine and cheese once for women’s studies and the men there drank white wine. Heresy! But most people, I imagine, wouldn’t give a shit.

 
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Originally posted by Satirae:

In all honesty, I don’t believe the genders are equal, for the exact fact that I believe our society is unfair to men. Women aren’t allowed to join the army or have certain jobs because of how they’re built, while men are left doing all the work and having hell being given to them for doing what a woman should be doing herself. I think more work should be done to make the genders equal, like treating a woman how one would treat a man. Women are not delicate, frail, dolls made of porcelain, we are made of the same things men are, and though I feel people should treat everyone with respect and how they’d like to be treated, I don’t believe women should get special rights due to their appearance.

A close friend of mine once told me this: “Women and men can only be equal as soon as a woman walks around topless with a beer belly”. Meaning that the reason we can’t have equality is because women are too “stuck up” to realize that they don’t act the same, or do the same work, as a man. I think part of the reason most men don’t have the respect for a women is because they’re unable to let themselves go and actually BE themselves as opposed to how they feel is the “perfect” girl.

Men and women are ruled by what people believe to be the normal behavior. It’s like this: There are manly colours, and there are girly colours, if a man is seen with a certain trait or interest that varies from the popular belief, they are automatically considered a pussy or something among those lines. If a woman is seen speaking her mind and her own beliefs, regardless to how others feel, she is a witch and should be burned in hell. (Yet it’s ironic how if a woman is a tomboy she’s no different than any other woman and it’s alright.)

This is why I don’t believe men and women are equal.

real simple: if you are competent then you are allowed certain rights(voting, chance to apply for firearms, etc.)

No, we are not all the same(physically and mentally), but there is common ground when it comes to certain decision making(competency)

 
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Originally posted by Satirae:

In all honesty, I don’t believe the genders are equal, for the exact fact that I believe our society is unfair to men. Women aren’t allowed to join the army or have certain jobs because of how they’re built, while men are left doing all the work and having hell being given to them for doing what a woman should be doing herself.

How does “how we’re built” have any relevancy on what jobs we can or cannot do? We can fight just as well as men can. If anything the fight is to force the army to recognise that we can be equals. Take gender out of the equation and go with individual competency.

The only time gender matters is when for legal reasons you cannot have a person of one gender offering personal care to a person of a different gender. That law is in place to protet both. Otherwise, it is up to the individual what jobs they can or cannot do, not someone else’s perceptions of what they should or should not be able to do.

 
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How does “how we’re built” have any relevancy on what jobs we can or cannot do? We can fight just as well as men can. If anything the fight is to force the army to recognise that we can be equals. Take gender out of the equation and go with individual competency.

You completely missed the entire point of my argument. That was what I was TRYING TO SAY, my comparison to “how we’re built” was the opinion of the majority of people who were to say men and women were equal and to continue living on in an unfair society. My entire point was that despite how we’re built we’re still the same and it’s not relevant at all. Therefore, your argument against me is unjust.

I said it myself: “Having hell being given to them for doing what a woman should be doing herself”, you must not have read my post at all if you were to miss that point. My whole argument was that this society prohibits women from doing certain things or having certain jobs because of who they are or how they’re built. That’s why I felt there isn’t equality in the least bit, to prohibit a person from doing something so many others can just because of their gender.