World without Religion: Better or Worse? page 23

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Originally posted by Darear:
Originally posted by Rpoman2009:

1 billion times better!

Let’s see past atheist countries… The Soviet Union or USSR under Stalin had the official religion stated as atheism. Stalin murdered roughly 20 million of his own people. Explain how this is better?

atheism is still religion. I’m an atheist and even I admit that. Not believing in anything is still something.

 
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Originally posted by Darear:
Originally posted by Rpoman2009:

1 billion times better!

Let’s see past atheist countries… The Soviet Union or USSR under Stalin had the official religion stated as atheism. Stalin murdered roughly 20 million of his own people. Explain how this is better?

Don’t forget Mao ze tung and Hitler

 
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Originally posted by Rpoman2009:
Originally posted by Darear:
Originally posted by Rpoman2009:

1 billion times better!

Let’s see past atheist countries… The Soviet Union or USSR under Stalin had the official religion stated as atheism. Stalin murdered roughly 20 million of his own people. Explain how this is better?

atheism is still religion. I’m an atheist and even I admit that. Not believing in anything is still something.

Atheism is not religion. That’s like calling not playing soccer a sport in it’s own rights.

 
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Atheism is not religion. That’s like calling not playing soccer a sport in it’s own rights.

Religion and soccer are two completely different things. No matter what people say Atheism is still a religion.

 
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Originally posted by Rpoman2009:
Atheism is not religion. That’s like calling not playing soccer a sport in it’s own rights.

Religion and soccer are two completely different things. No matter what people say Atheism is still a religion.

…Are you trolling me? Most atheists don’t like atheism to be associated as a religion…

 
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Originally posted by Darear:
Originally posted by Rpoman2009:
Atheism is not religion. That’s like calling not playing soccer a sport in it’s own rights.

Religion and soccer are two completely different things. No matter what people say Atheism is still a religion.

…Are you trolling me? Most atheists don’t like atheism to be associated as a religion…

No I’m not trolling you. I didn’t start talking to you, you started talking to me. And what you said is true most atheist do, not all some can accept the fact that atheism is a religion.

 
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I know I’m late, but the Heads side just seems a little one sided.

How would No religion mean no Nazi’s?
Jews weren’t the only problem in their eyes, not to mention there would of been something to replace the Jews.

Everyone works hard for science isn’t true as well.
That’s the main argument of why communism doesn’t work, shouldn’t the same reasoning apply here?
In theory it’s true and perfect, but that wouldn’t be the case most of the time.
Why? Simply because some people would still be lazy or not care.

Then the 3rd number, well that wouldn’t be the case as well.
Tons of things in science aren’t true, just because they aren’t proven if you follow this logic.
Not to mention different things would still be taught throughout the world, or people simply would have different ideas that counteract yours.

 
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Considering “religion” as a word that describes faith and devotion to either an ultimate deity or an ultimate reality, it probably isn’t very unusual to consider that people may be considered “religious” without considering themselves as affiliated with an institutionalized or recognized world religion. A person might consider themselves to be the ultimate deity of their own destiny or a person might even believe that the lack of an ultimate deity’s existence is the one and only ultimate reality.

But if we consider religion as an objective “better or worse” type of topic, we’re putting it in the category of things that would otherwise be thought of as a “one size fits all” type of concept, and that is clearly not the case.

From a medical perspective, some people feel that allopathic medicine is better while others resort to complementary and alternative medicine. It doesn’t mean that one practice or another is inherently better, but based on the gradient of health determinants, people feel like a certain practice is better for their well being and in some cases, people have experienced multiple sides of practice before settling down on what feels most right for them. Religion isn’t all too different. Some people think Buddhism is the most right, or Islam, or Christianity, or Atheism, but this isn’t a matter of is one way or the other better or worse for the entire world.

Now if we’re looking to point out a real problem, it’s probably gotta be the attitudes that people harbor toward those who are different from them. It’s not the existence of religion that is causing the problem specifically, and we know this because people get riled up over a whole variety of things unrelated to religion. Economic debates, illegal immigrants and policies in that respect, whether or not argyle and khaki are still in style during the springtime are some examples to name a few.

 
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Originally posted by Rpoman2009:
Originally posted by Darear:
Originally posted by Rpoman2009:

1 billion times better!

Let’s see past atheist countries… The Soviet Union or USSR under Stalin had the official religion stated as atheism. Stalin murdered roughly 20 million of his own people. Explain how this is better?

atheism is still religion. I’m an atheist and even I admit that. Not believing in anything is still something.

Originally posted by Rpoman2009:
Originally posted by Darear:
Originally posted by Rpoman2009:
Atheism is not religion. That’s like calling not playing soccer a sport in it’s own rights.

Religion and soccer are two completely different things. No matter what people say Atheism is still a religion.

…Are you trolling me? Most atheists don’t like atheism to be associated as a religion…

No I’m not trolling you. I didn’t start talking to you, you started talking to me. And what you said is true most atheist do, not all some can accept the fact that atheism is a religion.

Not believing in anything means that its not a religion.

Though you could view disbelief as a belief, which I think your trying to do.

I personally don’t think its a religion. As far as I am aware atheist is a broad term and since they generally believe in the same things there are lots of different types of atheists who believe different things (like the denominations of Christianity), but I don’t think Atheism can have a figure head simply because it is too broad (I haven’t done much research into this, correct me if I’m wrong) and because of that I don’t view it as a religion, merely a belief.

 
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Originally posted by Rpoman2009:
Originally posted by Darear:
Originally posted by Rpoman2009:

1 billion times better!

Let’s see past atheist countries… The Soviet Union or USSR under Stalin had the official religion stated as atheism. Stalin murdered roughly 20 million of his own people. Explain how this is better?

atheism is still religion. I’m an atheist and even I admit that. Not believing in anything is still something.

you’re not an atheist. atheism is absolutely not a religion and i don’t buy for a second any atheist would not understand that. there’s no atheist church (neither as building or organisation), no atheist gospels, no atheist creeds, no atheist holy scriptures, no atheist prayers, no official atheist mythology, no atheist holymen, nothing of the sort.

you’re either a troll or incredibly…lets see, foolish i guess is a word we’re allowed to use. but i still don’t buy for a second you’re an atheist.

 
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basicbasic you are right, atheism is not a religion. Anyone that has access to a dictionary would know that.

 
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I mean the word Atheism, it literally means Without-Religion. We’re getting into some pretty serious double talk if we trespass that.

That said, Omega you were mentioning the absence of Atheist creeds/churches ect. Although that is true of the broader set, there are many various sects which include atheism as an often important part of their value systems. The Church Of Satan was the first one to my mind. Which, despite the name, is a devoutly atheist organization.

 
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No religion: Better

 
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So let me get this straight. Just because I believe what I believe and told someone what I do because they disagree with me makes me a troll? I know that a lot of people on the internet aren’t the most intelligent people on this planet but come on, grow up! And the thing about Stalin being an atheist and killing people, um do you see every atheist in the world killing people?! Think this isn’t WWII!

 
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Originally posted by Rpoman2009:

So let me get this straight. Just because I believe what I believe and told someone what I do because they disagree with me makes me a troll? I know that a lot of people on the internet aren’t the most intelligent people on this planet but come on, grow up! And the thing about Stalin being an atheist and killing people, um do you see every atheist in the world killing people?! Think this isn’t WWII!

and do you see every religious man killing?

 
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and do you see every religious man killing?

I don’t! The only religious people I see killing others are super crazy religious people! Both atheist and religious people can be crazy.

 
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That said, Omega you were mentioning the absence of Atheist creeds/churches ect. Although that is true of the broader set, there are many various sects which include atheism as an often important part of their value systems. The Church Of Satan was the first one to my mind. Which, despite the name, is a devoutly atheist organization.

well, yes. there are several atheistic religions. Tibetan Buddhism and Confusianism for example. however, they just happen to be atheistic. atheism is not part of their creeds. nor is not believing in gnomes part of their creed.

that is also, btw, why atheism doesn’t exactly literally mean “without-religion”, because there is a distinction between religion and theism.

 
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To answer this thread as absent of my own beliefs as I can (I am religious), the world would be not a better nor a worse place without religion. People do good things. People do bad things. Without religion, people would still do good things, and people would still do bad things, but they would find other reasons to do what it was they were doing in the first place. Would Stalin still have killed tens of millions if there had been Churches around? Probably. Would the crusades still have happened if it were King Pious, instead of Pope Pious? Yep. To fall to the “blame religion for the world’s problems” fallacy is the same mistake the people who instigate the violence fall for. They believe their actions, good and bad, are the consequence of their religion, not them. Let’s be a bit brighter than that, and go ahead and blame them for their actions, and realize that absent of their religion, they’d still be willing to act the same way. If they were willing to be controlled by some religion, they’d still be willing to be controlled, but replace religion with something else.

In the perspective of a religious person, I would have to say “no”. I think the world would be pretty pointless without religion. Just a spinning orb of dirt with organic creatures expending energy toward subjective ends while the sun they orbit slowly decays until it will engulf them all. Yeah, I’ll take religion.

 
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i really like this videos points

 
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I cannot remember if I have posted in this thread before, but if I have it’ll be another way of saying the same as this post:

A world without religion would be very different. You see religion, systems of belief, are a side-effect of the way our higher thought processes work. If we were able to change the world so that all throughout time there was no religion, or change it so that existing religions die out and no new ones could form, the only way we could actually do that would be to remove the parts of our brains that produce a tendency to form a system of belief.

In other words, we would have to remove our higher brain functions – our sense of self and our ability to puzzle out the world around us. This would be the only way to kill off any possibility of systems of belief.

As to whether the world would be ‘better’ if we did that, it all comes down to a matter of opinion. It would completely destroy our civilisation, and any possibility of a new civilisation ever emerging. We would revert back to being mere beasts, operating on instinct like any other animal, unable to be anything more.

Perhaps that would create a ‘better’ world for the planet at large, as it would never see a human civilisation to damage it. However, from the perspective of individual humans, it would be a radically different life, and a radically shorter one.

So as much as some systems of belief are aggrivating as all hell, systems of belief are a necessary evil; a side-effect of the marvelous minds we possess. Having such a mind to work with, far outweighs the perils and pitfalls inherent in some undesirable systems of belief that grow out of that mind’s understanding of the world it sees.

 
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Originally posted by bjjdude:

i really like this videos points

I prefer this one

 
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I really see this as an odd argument, I mean a world without religion is just about impossible and therefore (sorry for the trolling term), this entire argument is invalid. I really can’t see a natural world of intelligent human like beings, with the ability to communicate to not have a religion.

 
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basicbascis that’s not the question, the question is would the world be better with or without religion.

 
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considering whats happening in the middle east….it would be better without religon

 
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I agree with Vika, it’s a stupid assertion that is only made by angry angsty atheists. Religion isn’t at all a functional object that acts and is acted upon. It’s a concept describing people’s organization in relation to beliefs. It’s a description of a thing and isn’t a thing itself. If there weren’t the things that make up religion, there wouldn’t be a question to be answered. In fact, many theists try to validate their arguments by pointing to religion as if it’s the reason for a particular belief, and not the excuse. Religions don’t make people do anything ever at all even a little.