World without Religion: Better or Worse? page 26

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i guess people wont do good without a reason.
religion enslaved them and made them do good.

evil is actually the real good.
everyone has been blinded all this time.
you SHOULD be selfish and immoral.

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:
w, I am not trying to imply nobody who would believe in a god of any kind would be a monster, but you’d probably see more crime.

stats clearly say otherwise, in fact the reverse of that. now there are two possibilities: either religion causes more crime, and without religion there’d be less of it; or people that are more prone to commit crimes gravitate towards religion more.

What “stats”?

Crime stats. Specifically the religious statistics concerning convicted criminals, where Atheists and Agnostics are generally underrepresented considering their rate of prevalence in society.

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:
w, I am not trying to imply nobody who would believe in a god of any kind would be a monster, but you’d probably see more crime.

stats clearly say otherwise, in fact the reverse of that. now there are two possibilities: either religion causes more crime, and without religion there’d be less of it; or people that are more prone to commit crimes gravitate towards religion more.

What “stats”?

Crime stats. Specifically the religious statistics concerning convicted criminals, where Atheists and Agnostics are generally underrepresented considering their rate of prevalence in society.

There are more of Chrisdtain and muslim criminals because there are more christains and muslims in the world.

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:

Crime stats. Specifically the religious statistics concerning convicted criminals, where Atheists and Agnostics are generally underrepresented considering their rate of prevalence in society.

There are more of Chrisdtain and muslim criminals because there are more christains and muslims in the world.

Statistic analysis takes that into account.

 
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Correlation != Causation. More religious people commit crimes because they are almost always less educated and poorer. The more educated the person is, the higher the chances that they will be non-religious, or at least no a fundamentalist – this is something I’ve noticed during my life – there’s also the fact that developed countries with good education have a population that is far less religious.

 
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Originally posted by WolfgangAzureus:

Correlation != Causation. More religious people commit crimes because they are almost always less educated and poorer. The more educated the person is, the higher the chances that they will be non-religious, or at least no a fundamentalist – this is something I’ve noticed during my life – there’s also the fact that developed countries with good education have a population that is far less religious.

you are some what right, but many of the taliban leaders had bacholers and masters degrees in engineering, medical etc

 
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You’ll notice it’s not the leaders of such organisations that are the ones convicted of criminal activities in most cases. Instead, their devoted followers have that honor.

 
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freedom is needed too i suppose. lots of people become atheists after leaving home.no longer being brainwashed by family(older generation)

 
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Originally posted by WolfgangAzureus:

Correlation != Causation. More religious people commit crimes because they are almost always less educated and poorer. The more educated the person is, the higher the chances that they will be non-religious, or at least no a fundamentalist – this is something I’ve noticed during my life – there’s also the fact that developed countries with good education have a population that is far less religious.

Exactly. Economics especially.

you are some what right, but many of the taliban leaders had bacholers and masters degrees in engineering, medical etc

Really? As I understand it, they’re pretty uneducated.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

You’ll notice it’s not the leaders of such organisations that are the ones convicted of criminal activities in most cases. Instead, their devoted followers have that honor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Sidique_Khan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shehzad_Tanweer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasib_Hussain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Square_bomber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Yusuf_Azzam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafiz_Muhammad_Saeed
The only reason you will not see a foot soldier with a Bachelor degree is because education is not so common in his war torn country.
I am not saying you will not find illetrate soldeirs but there tend to be more illetrate gangsters in Pakistan afghanistan than foot soldeirs

 
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Originally posted by WolfgangAzureus:

Correlation != Causation. More religious people commit crimes because they are almost always less educated and poorer. The more educated the person is, the higher the chances that they will be non-religious, or at least no a fundamentalist – this is something I’ve noticed during my life – there’s also the fact that developed countries with good education have a population that is far less religious.

Why do you keep writing “Religous”? Many religous people have gone to college, many religous people have learned to tolerate. Extremeists is the word you are looking for. Their the people you can describe as the ones who attacked the U.S. Embassy, 9/11 I guess, etc.

 
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What does “religous” mean, anyway?
I keep using it because it is a fact (from what I’ve seen) that the more well-educated range you analyze, the less religious people you will find. Hardly any student of Harvard is religious, while many students of a shitty university in Texas are religious – it has all got to do with learning science (and seeing that, for example, the Bible and science don’t converge on MANY points) and critical thinking.
I’m not even claiming religious people commit more crimes, I’m actually neutral on that matter. Maybe you’ve got to pay more attention to my posts?

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

You’ll notice it’s not the leaders of such organisations that are the ones convicted of criminal activities in most cases. Instead, their devoted followers have that honor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Sidique_Khan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shehzad_Tanweer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasib_Hussain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Square_bomber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Yusuf_Azzam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafiz_Muhammad_Saeed
The only reason you will not see a foot soldier with a Bachelor degree is because education is not so common in his war torn country.
I am not saying you will not find illetrate soldeirs but there tend to be more illetrate gangsters in Pakistan afghanistan than foot soldeirs

um…every single one of these guys is al-qaeda, except the last guy who’s a kashmiri militant.

AQ’s leadership is well-educated. They have to be. The taliban, on the other hand, are basically analagous to deep south ignorant rednecks…and my apologies to the rednecks of SD.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

You’ll notice it’s not the leaders of such organisations that are the ones convicted of criminal activities in most cases. Instead, their devoted followers have that honor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Sidique_Khan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shehzad_Tanweer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasib_Hussain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Square_bomber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Yusuf_Azzam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafiz_Muhammad_Saeed
The only reason you will not see a foot soldier with a Bachelor degree is because education is not so common in his war torn country.
I am not saying you will not find illetrate soldeirs but there tend to be more illetrate gangsters in Pakistan afghanistan than foot soldeirs

um…every single one of these guys is al-qaeda, except the last guy who’s a kashmiri militant.

AQ’s leadership is well-educated. They have to be. The taliban, on the other hand, are basically analagous to deep south ignorant rednecks…and my apologies to the rednecks of SD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Mashaal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Ahmed_Yassin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Zahar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Haniyah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Masood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbuddin_Hikmatyar
So, saying something like educated people are not extremists is wrong and anyone thinking so, is “analagous to deep south ignorant rednecks”
If I have terrorist tendencies, a masters degree in chemistry will only bring me a step closer to making a bomb.

 
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lol…you kinda suck at this, don’t you?

So, first list you gave was almost all AQ. Now next list you gave is half n half Hamas and PA. Last two guys, Ahmad Shah and Hekmatyar, were NA and anti-taliban. Hekmatyar also never finished his degree.

Read this carefully before you make another ‘oh yeah?’ post: I said the TALIBAN are mostly ignorant rednecks. Not ‘various islamic terror groups’.

 
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Based on previous threads, and the mess on my profile shouts, I’m not convinced punisher is even capable of ‘reading carefully’.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

lol…you kinda suck at this, don’t you?

So, first list you gave was almost all AQ. Now next list you gave is half n half Hamas and PA. Last two guys, Ahmad Shah and Hekmatyar, were NA and anti-taliban. Hekmatyar also never finished his degree.

Read this carefully before you make another ‘oh yeah?’ post: I said the TALIBAN are mostly ignorant rednecks. Not ‘various islamic terror groups’.

That was not only for taliban, but people generally think that Most extremists are illiterate savages, that is to debunk that.

Originally posted by vikaTae:

Based on previous threads, and the mess on my profile shouts, I’m not convinced punisher is even capable of ‘reading carefully’.

Hey vika you have not answered my question.
Why your men wear skirts?

 
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Except that’s not what I said.

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:

That was not only for taliban, but people generally think that Most extremists are illiterate savages, that is to debunk that.

That would be called a strawman making up an argument nobody was actually arguing, as it is easier to debunk than addressing the actual argument.

Hey vika you have not answered my question.
Why your men wear skirts?

Because they’re dang terrifying when they run at you with weapons wielded, and the kilts rising to show they’re wearing absolutely nothing underneath. Where do you focus, the big waraxe heading for your face, or the line of naked manhoods waving cheerily at you as they charge from across the field?

 
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That was not only for taliban, but people generally think that Most extremists are illiterate savages, that is to debunk that.

most extremists are pretty dense people that need something believe in, that get misguided by shrewd people that are likely quite educated.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:
That was not only for taliban, but people generally think that Most extremists are illiterate savages, that is to debunk that.

most extremists are pretty dense people that need something believe in, that get misguided by shrewd people that are likely quite educated.

pretty much. I think it’s mainly that they’re poor because a lot of these groups have mafia-style ’’we’ll protect your family’’ insurance plans.

Although the homegrown ones are more like cultists.

 
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So, almost like a mercenary style believer then Janton? Seeing the cause as a way to keep a roof over the family’s heads, or look after relatives in poor health, et al, rather than something they truly believe in themselves?

Would that be a possible way to ‘attack’ the roots of extremism? Attempt to modernise the root countries, bringing up quality of life,and putting in economic safety nets to make working for them, a less attractive proposition?

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

Except that’s not what I said.

As i said

Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:

That was not only for taliban, but people generally think that Most extremists are illiterate savages, that is to debunk that.

That would be called a strawman making up an argument nobody was actually arguing, as it is easier to debunk than addressing the actual argument.

Hey vika you have not answered my question.
Why your men wear skirts?

Because they’re dang terrifying when they run at you with weapons wielded, and the kilts rising to show they’re wearing absolutely nothing underneath. Where do you focus, the big waraxe heading for your face, or the line of naked manhoods waving cheerily at you as they charge from across the field?

Go, through whole thread and you will feel like most people think Extremists are illiterate schmuks , they are not.
Any one will be “dang” terrifying to me if he/she is charging at me in a homicidal rage with a weapon drawn.
But there “skirts” will give me a perfect opportunity to kick them in their balls.
Or do they steel plate their balls?

 
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good luck trying to kick a man in the balls whilst he is trying to split your head open with an axe, or run you through with a sword.

I’d pay good money to watch that fight between you and a scotsman.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

good luck trying to kick a man in the balls whilst he is trying to split your head open with an axe, or run you through with a sword.

I’d pay good money to watch that fight between you and a scotsman.

OOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I’m scared that William Wallace will rise from his grave(If he have one) and cut me up in peaces.