Suicide page 5

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You can’t be 100% sure about anything

You CAN be 100% sure that you detect X. Because of this, you can increasingly assume you will continue detecting X. You can use that information to factor the detection of X into future decisions.

For example: I detect that my feet do not explode when I walk. Again, I detect my feet do not explode when I walk. My feet don’t seem to be exploding. My feet still won’t explode when I walk, they probably won’t explode the next time I walk. In fact, since my feet still aren’t exploding, I’ll bet you 100$ they won’t explode tomorrow.

Yes, it’s true my feet might be exploding, I just don’t notice, the person who I’m betting with doesn’t either. My feet might not even exist. But even if those things are true, they don’t affect me in any way I can detect. So while my feet could be camouflaged ducks, it actually doesn’t matter, because I can’t tell (so I can’t use that information).

So, to DarkBaron: I walk around tables instead of through them because even if the table doesn’t exist, it still can affect me in painful or inconvenient ways. In other words, walking around tables is more productive towards accomplishing my goals.

 
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You CAN be 100% sure that you detect X.

True. The only thing I am 100% sure of existing is my own mind.

 
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Originally posted by iMachine:

You CAN be 100% sure that you detect X.

True. The only thing I am 100% sure of existing is my own mind.

So to answer your question: Life isn’t meaningless because even if none of it is “real” (whatever that means) it still affects you. Anything that affects someone has meaning, because there’s someone to define it and have an opinion on it.

What do you mean by “meaning”, anyway?

 
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Actually, iMachine, it is that simple. Since I realize how much you adore bringing up deities, I’ll draw the proper parallel for you:

How can you know an omnipotent deity doesn’t really exist who answers prayers, just because he doesn’t answer your prayer to strike you with lightning, this instant?

Wannabaggit, in your poor attempt to disagree, you wound up agreeing that solipsism is a stupid philosophy. Good job.

 
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Life isn’t meaningless because even if none of it is “real” (whatever that means) it still affects you. Anything that affects someone has meaning, because there’s someone to define it and have an opinion on it.

Yes, but my point was that when you die, it will most likely never affect you again, meaning that it is not an incentive to continue life.

What do you mean by “meaning”, anyway?

By meaning I mean the significance or importance of life, or the purpose for continuing it.

How can you know an omnipotent deity doesn’t really exist who answers prayers, just because he doesn’t answer your prayer to strike you with lightning, this instant?

I can’t. I consider it unlikely, but I haven’t said anything about there being no possibility of God’s existence. I believe I have actually said the exact opposite.

EDIT: And do you care to explain why it is a stupid philosophy?

 
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I just did. Walk through your table. After all, it doesn’t exist. Let me know how it goes.

 
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Originally posted by DarkBaron:

I just did. Walk through your table. After all, it doesn’t exist. Let me know how it goes.

Nobody here is claiming that it doesn’t exist, just that we can’t be 100% certain it does.
And did you not read my answer to that when you posted that the first time? Here it goes again, I guess.

How can I be sure that my nervous system and my senses provide my brain with correct information? If you have seen The Matrix, you would know what I mean. There is no way to be sure of this, and that is why your example with the table doesn’t cut it. The reality that a schizophrenic experiences is as real to him as walking into a table is to me. Does that mean that he can be sure that what he experiences is real?

 
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Drop the absolute knowledge bullshit. You can know things. For instance, every person in the world jumps, and then falls down. Can we really be sure that gravity is causing them to fall, or is it just likely? Say no prayer’s ever been verifiably answered, and to have the “answered” (supposedly) prayer correlatedly answered (as demonstrated by science). We can therefore know that no deity exists that answers prayers.

Every time we walk into a table, we hit it. We therefore know it exists. Eat that, solipsists. All three Matrix movies bored me to sleep, independently.

 
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Originally posted by iMachine:

EDIT: For all you and I know, we could both be living in some Matrix-ish computer generation. There is simply no way to be sure.

Take the red pill.

 
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Btw, drop the absolute knowledge bullshit. You can.

How?

For instance, every person in the world jumps, and then falls down. Can we really be sure that gravity is causing them to fall, or is it just likely?

Explain to me how you can be 100% sure that it is gravity that causes them to fall down, and not some divine force.
Then you can explain to me how you would be 100% sure that they exist in the first place.

Say no prayer’s ever been verifiably answered, and to have the “answered” (supposedly) prayer correlatedly answered (as demonstrated by science). We can therefore know that no deity exists that answers prayers.

Really? If god exists, and he is as mighty as Christians claim, could he not forge such evidence in order to test our faith? And even if this was true, then you can’t exclude the possibility of there being a deity that might not answer prayers, but who does everything else.

In order to not seem like a crazy person, I will explain how I think.

1. Our brain is our only source for information
2. Our brain depends on the information it receives from our senses for us to be able to perceive.
3. Our brain might process such information incorrectly (mental illnesses, hallucinations, etc).
4. We can’t know whether this information provides a picture of the environment we are actually being a part of, or if they are artificial (see The Matrix).
5. Thus, we can’t be sure of the validity of what we perceive.

EDIT: And even if we know that our brain is infallible, there is still the possibility that there exists an all mighty god that can tamper with information and everything else as he pleases.

Every time we walk into a table, we hit it. We therefore know it exists.

What you actually know is that your brain tells you that you hit a table. Whether this information is true or not is impossible to tell.

All three Matrix movies bored me to sleep, independently.

Not the point, as long as you know what I mean when I refer to them.

 
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Originally posted by DarkBaron:


Wannabaggit, in your poor attempt to disagree, you wound up agreeing that solipsism is a stupid philosophy. Good job.

Look, what I did with the polar bear is consensual. He wanted to get in the bag, and it’s a perfectly legitimate way to get high.

Anyway, I never said you should believe the table exists, simply that recognizing the maybe-real table affects you is useful.

Originally posted by DarkBaron:

I just did. Walk through your table. After all, it doesn’t exist. Let me know how it goes.

Or maybe it does. Or maybe it doesn’t, it just feels like it does. Fuck if I know.

For instance, every person in the world jumps, and then falls down.

Prove that happened, kthx.

 
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HERE IS THE LAY DOWN.

WE ARE NOT REAL.
WE DO NOT EXIST.
WE ARE A SELF-AWARE COMPUTER SIMULATION.
WE THE MATRIX
WE ARE MATRIX
WE ARE INSIDE
THE MATIX.
MATRIX

 
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Originally posted by casspi4three:

HERE IS THE LAY DOWN.

WE ARE NOT REAL.
WE DO NOT EXIST.
WE ARE A SELF-AWARE COMPUTER SIMULATION.
WE THE MATRIX
WE ARE MATRIX
WE ARE INSIDE
THE MATIX.
MATRIX

My mind is real.
I exist
I am self aware, but not a computer.
Possible
Possible
Again
Yeah…

 
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Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by casspi4three:

HERE IS THE LAY DOWN.

WE ARE NOT REAL.
WE DO NOT EXIST.
WE ARE A SELF-AWARE COMPUTER SIMULATION.
WE THE MATRIX
WE ARE MATRIX
WE ARE INSIDE
THE MATIX.
MATRIX

My mind is real.
I exist
I am self aware, but not a computer.
Possible
Possible
Again
Yeah…

How can you be so sure?
See above
See above
See below
See first statement
See above
See second statement

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by casspi4three:

HERE IS THE LAY DOWN.

WE ARE NOT REAL.
WE DO NOT EXIST.
WE ARE A SELF-AWARE COMPUTER SIMULATION.
WE THE MATRIX
WE ARE MATRIX
WE ARE INSIDE
THE MATIX.
MATRIX

My mind is real.
I exist
I am self aware, but not a computer.
Possible
Possible
Again
Yeah…

How can you be so sure?
See above
See above
See below
See first statement
See above
See second statement

Is that to me? I am sure I exist because I think and feel. Therefor my consciousness exists, not necessarily my physical body. But I have free will.

 
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Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

Exactly. I just assume they are lying because they aren’t real.

 
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Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

Exactly. I just assume they are lying because they aren’t real.

Exactly my point. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll regard all of your posts as bullshit in the same manner that I do with trolls.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

Exactly. I just assume they are lying because they aren’t real.

Exactly my point. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll regard all of your posts as bullshit in the same manner that I do with trolls.

Very well. What do you think of suicide?

 
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Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

Exactly. I just assume they are lying because they aren’t real.

Exactly my point. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll regard all of your posts as bullshit in the same manner that I do with trolls.

Very well. What do you think of suicide?

Hmm a peculiar question. As you stated, you are a Solipsist, where (brief description, feel free to correct me) you believe that your mind is the only existence and everything else is your imagination. So, if you can enlighten me and explain why your mind can display illusions that you do not want and have no control over, why even respond? Again, why is there suicide in your, and, my world and spend time talking to your subconscious like me?

^Sorry if their is some mistakes and I do not use as high vocabulary. It’s been a long day for me.

 
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Originally posted by silverclue12:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

Exactly. I just assume they are lying because they aren’t real.

Exactly my point. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll regard all of your posts as bullshit in the same manner that I do with trolls.

Very well. What do you think of suicide?

Hmm a peculiar question. As you stated, you are a Solipsist, where (brief description, feel free to correct me) you believe that your mind is the only existence and everything else is your imagination. So, if you can enlighten me and explain why your mind can display illusions that you do not want and have no control over, why even respond? Again, why is there suicide in your, and, my world and spend time talking to your subconscious like me?

^Sorry if their is some mistakes and I do not use as high vocabulary. It’s been a long day for me.

When do you dream, you may be aware of it but still interact with it, right? Just because nothing is real doesn’t mean you can’t treat it as being so, everything I say is hypothetical. I find it entertaining and make the best of it, I don’t get depressed, can’t be bullied, don’t value other lives, and it makes me feel happy. We all have our beliefs, I find it no different then the believe of a supreme being.

 
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Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by silverclue12:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

Exactly. I just assume they are lying because they aren’t real.

Exactly my point. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll regard all of your posts as bullshit in the same manner that I do with trolls.

Very well. What do you think of suicide?

Hmm a peculiar question. As you stated, you are a Solipsist, where (brief description, feel free to correct me) you believe that your mind is the only existence and everything else is your imagination. So, if you can enlighten me and explain why your mind can display illusions that you do not want and have no control over, why even respond? Again, why is there suicide in your, and, my world and spend time talking to your subconscious like me?

^Sorry if their is some mistakes and I do not use as high vocabulary. It’s been a long day for me.

When do you dream, you may be aware of it but still interact with it, right? Just because nothing is real doesn’t mean you can’t treat it as being so, everything I say is hypothetical. I find it entertaining and make the best of it, I don’t get depressed, can’t be bullied, don’t value other lives, and it makes me feel happy. We all have our beliefs, I find it no different then the believe of a supreme being.

Do you dream as well? Or is it a continuous dream and / or can you manipulate things?

 
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Originally posted by silverclue12:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by silverclue12:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Indy111:

Which is exactly what anyone else would say if you ask them how they are so sure they exist, but since your belief stems off of arrogance and some twisted god-complex there really isn’t much that could convince you otherwise.

Exactly. I just assume they are lying because they aren’t real.

Exactly my point. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll regard all of your posts as bullshit in the same manner that I do with trolls.

Very well. What do you think of suicide?

Hmm a peculiar question. As you stated, you are a Solipsist, where (brief description, feel free to correct me) you believe that your mind is the only existence and everything else is your imagination. So, if you can enlighten me and explain why your mind can display illusions that you do not want and have no control over, why even respond? Again, why is there suicide in your, and, my world and spend time talking to your subconscious like me?

^Sorry if their is some mistakes and I do not use as high vocabulary. It’s been a long day for me.

When do you dream, you may be aware of it but still interact with it, right? Just because nothing is real doesn’t mean you can’t treat it as being so, everything I say is hypothetical. I find it entertaining and make the best of it, I don’t get depressed, can’t be bullied, don’t value other lives, and it makes me feel happy. We all have our beliefs, I find it no different then the believe of a supreme being.

Do you dream as well? Or is it a continuous dream and / or can you manipulate things?

Dreams are no different, except for maybe the theme is different. (They are separate physics in a way that my imaginations act different.)

 
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So as a Solipsist, you find yourself interacting with your subconscious like we (technically your subconscious) interact with out dreams. You cannot manipulate the illusions you see, but it still caters to what you would think you would want. So do you believe you live forever? Since a subconscious has no limitations, why would there be a set age? Or do you believe that you go to an eternal sleep and never wake? Why would suicide be relevant to yourself and why can or can you not take your own life since your body is just a figment of your imagination.

 
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Originally posted by silverclue12:

So as a Solipsist, you find yourself interacting with your subconscious like we (technically your subconscious) interact with out dreams. You cannot manipulate the illusions you see, but it still caters to what you would think you would want. So do you believe you live forever? Since a subconscious has no limitations, why would there be a set age? Or do you believe that you go to an eternal sleep and never wake? Why would suicide be relevant to yourself and why can or can you not take your own life since your body is just a figment of your imagination.

Well; 1. I treat life hypothetically, so I can still act like you truly have a mind. 2. Yes, I live forever, possibly unconsciously. 3. My body won’t be alive, but I’ll always be. I see no point to suicide anyways (for me).