Why are you Atheist? page 136

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Originally posted by PatriotSaint:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

If you don’t want people to care that you are atheist than prove it by not putting up billboards next to highways for the sole purpose of screaming at the world that “I’M AN ATHEIST, SUCK IT FOOL”.

Why not?
Theists do it….eh?
Nothing at all “wrong” about letting the world know just where ya stand on “issues”.
Be proud….walk tall.

So, basically, turn atheism into a religion.

So only religions are allowed to spread word about them and educate people about them?

 
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Originally posted by PatriotSaint:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

If you don’t want people to care that you are atheist than prove it by not putting up billboards next to highways for the sole purpose of screaming at the world that “I’M AN ATHEIST, SUCK IT FOOL”.

Why not?
Theists do it….eh?
Nothing at all “wrong” about letting the world know just where ya stand on “issues”.
Be proud….walk tall.

So, basically, turn atheism into a religion.


“If religions do it, why shouldn’t we do it too?”


I’ll be there for the first atheist baptizing.

Atheists do it to advance a society. Whenever Sarah Palin wants to create a government based upon the bible, we must do everything possible in order to save the country from a destructive theocracy. We don’t want to bring back slavery endorsed by the bible (Colossians 3:22).

Atheists won’t baptize people. It isn’t a cult.

 
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Biblical Contradictions: large pic

More Biblical Contradictions

Also, just for more fun bashing the bible’s stance on slavery

 
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Hmmmm….slasher, ya just might have coined a new term: Atheocracy (and, Atheocracyist).

Opps, it appears someone might have beaten ya to it

 
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@karma

It was obviously sarcasm. And you probably knew it in the first place. Probably. Hopefully.

Try to use correct punctuation and spelling next time, as it’s hard to take something seriously when it has something like “soooooo asinine & stooopid” in it.

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

If you don’t want people to care that you are atheist than prove it by not putting up billboards next to highways for the sole purpose of screaming at the world that “I’M AN ATHEIST, SUCK IT FOOL”.

Why not?
Theists do it….eh?
Nothing at all “wrong” about letting the world know just where ya stand on “issues”.
Be proud….walk tall.

So, basically, turn atheism into a religion.


So only religions are allowed to spread word about them and educate people about them?

facepalm

That isn’t my point!

Some atheists make atheism just like a religion.

If atheism is so much better, why are some people trying to make it function like a religion? With “expansionist goals and a wildly zealot congregation”.

If you want people to accept you for being “better” than “those religious hicks” than act the part. You don’t need to try to convert people to the “Church of the God of Not Being God”.

For some people, atheism means NOTHING more than not believing in a god, and people who do more than that embarrass them and give them a bad name.

You can believe that God does not exist and others can believe that God does exist, and if you really are better you will prove it. Otherwise, so much for “equality”.

 
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Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

facepalm

That isn’t my point!

Some atheists make atheism just like a religion.

If atheism is so much better, why are some people trying to make it function like a religion? With “expansionist goals and a wildly zealot congregation”.

Self-defense. The number of countries where Atheism/Atheists is/are not both legally and social disadvantaged are less than an Dozen. The only ones that come to my mind are Cuba and China. And i am not even certain about them.
Most modern countries have become less discriminating in the last decades, but thats actually in great parts due to the "expansionist goals and a wildly zealot congregation” of some Atheists and these countries are still far from being none discriminating against them.

For some people, atheism means NOTHING more than not believing in a god, and people who do more than that embarrass them and give them a bad name.

Yeah just like Martin Luther King and other black rights activists gave blacks a bad name and how feminists give women bad names and gay rights activist give gays bad names.

 
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FACE-PALM….that nearly caused me a concussion.

Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

facepalm

That isn’t my point!

Some atheists make atheism just like a religion.

If atheism is so much better, why are some people trying to make it function like a religion? With “expansionist goals and a wildly zealot congregation”.

If you want people to accept you for being “better” than “those religious hicks” than then act the part. You don’t need to try to convert people to the “Church of the God of Not Being God”.


I’m gonna go waaaaaay out on a tiny twig here and say the “YOU” being referred by ya is ALSO that (very likely,,,VERY SMALL) SOME PEOPLE ya somehow believe is sterotypically REPRESENATIVE of the whole?
For some people, atheism means NOTHING more than not believing in a god, and people who do more than that embarrass them and give them a bad name.

Aha.
So, YOU manage to blow a huge hole in YOUR VERY OWN "arguement.
YUP…it is indeed ONLY SOME atheists that behave the way YOU & I strongly believe they should NOT do so.
But, whatyagonnado?
That’s life.
That’s ppl.

You can believe that God does not exist and others can believe that God does exist, and if you really are better you will prove it.

W H Y ?
Why should any atheist do this?
Are YOU saying they should do it in order to support YOUR bias about atheists?
Why are YOU so intent on having “the tail wag the dog”?
Do YOU not realize that most any “group” is gonna have those “rotten eggs” in it?

Otherwise, so much for “equality”.

Ya know…from YOUR display above,,,
MY opinion is: YOU haven’t much of a clue as to what equality actually is.

 
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Yes, some atheists are dogmatic, and imply that there is more in common between atheists than lacking a belief. Great point.

Now please tell me why you believe in your Sky Daddy over all of the other possible beliefs that have the same amount of evidence for them? Refer to my previous posts.

 
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One thing that I’m really interests me is why setting up billboards automatically means that you are trying to convert people or try to talk other stuff down.
Billboards and publicity work in general can just as well be used to create awareness or get ypur position across, educate people about it. I have been indoctrinated to be a Christian for so long that for a long time I honestly had no idea that there even are different options.

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

Quit this BS, theists address my questions on the last page, and my post on the one prior to that.

I don’t think they ever will. Its easier to attack weaker points, than hit something you don’t know how to deal with. There’s no real answer to the questions you have posed that won’t force them to deeply examine their own beliefs, and detailed self-examination is something they won’t actually do.

So they never have anything to assault that position with.

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

Yes, some atheists are dogmatic, and imply that there is more in common between atheists than lacking a belief. Great point.

Now please tell me why you believe in your Sky Daddy over all of the other possible beliefs that have the same amount of evidence for them? Refer to my previous posts.

Wait, so “some atheists” are dogmatic, but all theists are crazy religious strawmen?

Cool double standards, atheist.

This is why everyone hates atheists: They are intolerant of religious people and demand tolerance from them.

Also, I know that none of you atheists will respond to this because you would have to examine your own beliefs, and atheists are incapable of detailed self-examination because Richard Dawkins (the “god” of atheism) wont let them.

 
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I don’t think they ever will. Its easier to attack weaker points, than hit something you don’t know how to deal with. There’s no real answer to the questions you have posed that won’t force them to deeply examine their own beliefs, and detailed self-examination is something they won’t actually do.

It’s not that I’m interested in assaulting a position or uninterested in ‘detailed self-examination’ (something I’ve done on a fairly regular basis) – I just have no interest openly discussing my spirituality with random peeps on a discussion forum. I would hazard a guess that a large portion of the believers who aren’t responding to BSG feel the same way.

 
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Originally posted by ExemplaryReturns:
Originally posted by TheBSG:

Yes, some atheists are dogmatic, and imply that there is more in common between atheists than lacking a belief. Great point.

Now please tell me why you believe in your Sky Daddy over all of the other possible beliefs that have the same amount of evidence for them? Refer to my previous posts.

Wait, so “some atheists” are dogmatic, but all theists are crazy religious strawmen?

Cool double standards, atheist.

Did he say that? No really, did he say that, I can’t find it anywhere.

This is why everyone hates atheists: They are intolerant of religious people and demand tolerance from them.

And this is why everyone hates theists: They are intolerant of beliefs that aren’t their own and demand tolerance from them.

Also, I know that none of you atheists will respond to this because you would have to examine your own beliefs, and atheists are incapable of detailed self-examination because Richard Dawkins (the god of atheism) wont let them.

I’m the only one here who doesn’t know who Richard Dawkins is, aren’t I?

Also, it’s kind of hard to copy someone’s post to make a point when said point can easily be defeated.

 
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Yet again, the only response is “Geez, quit being mean to my beliefs, just tolerate them already.” Reread the last 3 pages for my opinion regarding your overbearing sensitivities. Not to mention… I didn’t say what you said I did in that post or any other. Can we get over ourselves and actually address my points? If you don’t want to discuss your deep spiritual beliefs with people on a discussion forum, don’t argue about religion. To me what this is really saying is “I grew up in a society where people get to have dumb beliefs and call it respect to ignore that other people’s beliefs are dumb and inconsistent.” I’m not making fun of your hair color or your style of clothing. I am suggesting you have inconsistent claims that you base the deepest parts of your life on, and I think you owe it to yourself more than me to analyze why you believe things that you wouldn’t believe under any other circumstances. If that’s “Intolerance” then I’ll take it. I’m an intolerant meany.

 
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Hahaha.

I must have really struck a nerve with that “sky daddy” reference. Kind of an oddly literal thing to take offense to, really.

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

Hahaha.

I must have really struck a nerve with that “sky daddy” reference. Kind of an oddly literal thing to take offense to, really.

Honestly, being atheist just makes me feel more free. We’ve been over this probably a billion times in this thread so far. I can be a good person because I am a good and moral person, not because I am being tied down and rewarded for it. The difference between a moral atheist and a moral theist is that the atheist is a truly good and selfless person for doing selfless acts. If a theist does a selfless act, it is for the benefit of the after-life/their religion, whether without realization or with realization of the benefit. You don’t need a guide telling you how to be a good person. We are not dogs waiting to be fed a treat for fetching a news-paper. I have consistently done many good acts for strangers without expecting anything besides a better world for everybody, no greed of a good afterlife or reincarnation. Many atheists like Bill Gates, who constantly donate a majority of their money, leaving almost nothing to their own children, are prime examples that pure atheistic generosity is for the good of all, not for the self.

 
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I think it’s weird that god chooses to remove our morals if we don’t believe. That seems like more of a punishment for the believers than for the atheist.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:

This is why everyone hates atheists: They are intolerant of religious people and demand tolerance from them.

And this is why everyone hates theists: They are intolerant of beliefs that aren’t their own and demand tolerance from them.

The stupid thing is, I’m a theist. I just find myself siding with the atheists most of the time, because I find gods to be self-absorbed beings at best. The worst takes a sharp turn to the left and plummetts into the abyss.

Because I’m not worshipping the damn things, I suppose I’m more open to examining them from different angles than most theists are.

I’m the only one here who doesn’t know who Richard Dawkins is, aren’t I?

He’s a biologist. Though why bring him up, I have no idea. Charles Darwin would have been a better choice.


Originally posted by NaturalReject:

I think it’s weird that god chooses to remove our morals if we don’t believe. That seems like more of a punishment for the believers than for the atheist.

It gets even worse when you realise they’re all supposed to have the exact same set of morals. What do you do if you convert to worship of a god and find your existing morals are incompatible?

If your morals are easy to throw out with the trash, they were hardly morals in the first place. How do you deal with the clash between sets of morality?
 
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Though why bring him up, I have no idea.

Because he arguably the highest profile atheist in the world.

Charles Darwin would have been a better choice.

Evolution and spirituality don’t automatically dispute each other (unless you take literal interpretation of the Bible). Darwin was a self-proclaimed non-atheist. “I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally … an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.” Being agnostic and being atheist are not the same.

 
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Yes they are. If you lack a belief in a God, even inexplicably, you are an atheist by the very definition of the word. Charles Darwin avoided the discussion because he wanted to stay married. It doesn’t actually matter though and I’m only arguing about this because I’m a sucker for definitions and history. It doesn’t matter if Einstein, Darwin, or anyone else is or isn’t a theist. It is inconsequential to the discussion.

Now, why do you believe in your version of the universe’s story over others with the exact same amount of reasoning behind them? How do you rectify the variations and contradictions within a given congregation, much less the belief system itself? With what tools do you maintain consistency and decide upon particular features that you then proclaim? If you have experienced the inexplicable, with what certainty do you rule out the potential other explanations for those experiences? What about the universe/science/morality is different than the way it would be without a God? What determines the wrongness of beliefs that use your same materials as evidence, but are decidedly contradictory to your own claims? What do you tell yourself that enables the cognitive dissonance to ignore the belief systems of millions of others, and the belief systems which inspired your own, while proclaiming absolute certainty and faith in a limiting, testable yet untested set of claims?

You answer the above questions for every single other thing you believe in life, so it shouldn’t be difficult to use the same brain you use to react in a car crash to explain why you’re a Christian and not a Zoroastrian. The thing is, I can answer those questions quite easily and without any personal insecurity for any of the beliefs I have. Despite being a negative claim, atheism passes these tests with flying colors. For all of the idiotic and fallacious questions posited to atheists, these are perfectly fair questions for anyone who claims anything. If you can’t or won’t answer them, ask yourself how confident you really are.

 
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Yes they are. If you lack a belief in a God, even inexplicably, you are an atheist by the very definition of the word.

Ehhh, not really. Atheism is the active believe that there isn’t a deity. Being agnostic is confessing that you don’t know one way or the other. They are similar, I’ll submit that. But they are most certainly not the same, nor are they interchangeable.

Now, why do you believe in your version of the universe’s story over others with the exact same amount of reasoning behind them? How do you rectify the variations and contradictions within a given congregation, much less the belief system itself? With what tools do you maintain consistency and decide upon particular features that you then proclaim? If you have experienced the inexplicable, with what certainty do you rule out the potential other explanations for those experiences? What about the universe/science/morality is different than the way it would be without a God? What determines the wrongness of beliefs that use your same materials as evidence, but are decidedly contradictory to your own claims? What do you tell yourself that enables the cognitive dissonance to ignore the belief systems of millions of others, and the belief systems which inspired your own, while proclaiming absolute certainty and faith in a limiting, testable yet untested set of claims?

You like to reference your own previous posts. I suggest you reference the previous post of mine. Now if we were in a coffee house and I was enjoying a tasty americano and I knew you for several years, then I would be more open to getting into a heady discussion about my own spirituality. But, we aren’t in a coffee house, I’m not drinking an americano, and I haven’t known you for several years, so I’m not open to getting into a heady discussion about my own spirituality with you.

 
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Because then I’d feel bad about suggesting you’re living a fantasy, and you would have social clout in the discussion, allowing you to maintain your facade?

Agnosticism and Atheism aren’t comparable concepts. Agnosticism relates to the claim regarding having knowledge, and the other has to do with beliefs in a deity. Atheism is not a positive claim unless it’s Gnostic. This isn’t debatable, it’s the definitions of the words and how claims and argument works structurally.

 
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Because then I’d feel bad about suggesting you’re living a fantasy, and you would have social clout in the discussion, allowing you to maintain your facade?

I have friends who are atheist who have more or less said the same thing to me. It doesn’t hurt my feelings. In fact, they have been harsher than you are being at times (although there were filled with large amounts of alcohol, so that may have played a part). The reason I save deep religious conversations for good friends is because they are less likely to tailspin into something that ends in personal attacks. Having that discussion with someone sitting behind a monitor doesn’t really offer that same security into my time investment and the baring of my soul.

Agnosticism and Atheism aren’t comparable concepts.

I would question why you said that they are the same thing in your previous post if they are likewise not comparable concepts.

 
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No, I said Darwin’s agnosticism is atheism. Most theists are agnostic. The concepts are mutually exclusive, it’s just that all non-theistic agnostics are implicit atheists. Explicit atheism isn’t even a positive claim. Explicit Gnostic Atheism is the only case in which a claim is being posited by a non-theist. Individuals use colloquial definitions and applications of these terms, but those can be measured technically as I have done so every time the mistake is made on these forums.

Here’s an illustration. This section of this video is also relevant.

You can review my posts on this forum and see that I have little patience for personal conflicts. I also have many many many theistic friends, probably more than atheists, who I discuss these things with at length. My measurement of others is not related to my perception of their convictions, or even their intelligence. My goal here isn’t even really to convince you that there isn’t a God, but to explain why I don’t believe in your God. As an agnostic atheist myself, I don’t even really disbelieve that there could be gods. I just know that, were we capable of knowing that, it wouldn’t look like Christianity, or any of mankind’s modern or historical beliefs.