Occupy Wallstreet is still going on page 2

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@scoopolard
Watch this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVpTxRNwifQ&list=FLRu09GnLOn4Y5Ee11gxgN4w&index=11&feature=plcp
The argument is that occupy movement is not just about changing policies, but changing the culture. That’s why its targeted to be a long term movement.
But my position is, you gotta have demands, what a waste of determination. People are willing to gather to fight against monopoly, but then all of those energy were distracted into occupy wallstreet. Its toiling and bad, its only good for the so called 1%.
If only all of those energies were channeled to support state funding of political parties. Yes slacking would be an issue then, but after all these mayhems on sub-primes and unsymphatetical and arguably immoral government bailouts… what harm would the consequences of such policy compare?

 
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Originally posted by scoopolard:

Touchy? Nah. I’m good. I’m not the one using caps lock and excessive punctuation.

Nah….YOU are obviously VERY touchy about this issue,,,,SERIOUSLY touchy. Trying to infer that my “unique form” of typing somehow indicates a level of “touchiness” rather than actually addressing the merits of emotionalism is just childish.

Irrelevant rant #1: Sorry if I feel that personal responsibility is a trait that Americans need to have more of.

SO? NOW…try to tie that obvious, commonly held opinion to ALL of the issues surroundng the OWS. YOU wanna talk personal responsibility…..what about how BIG business is totally fucking over a lot of very responisble “little” ppl? YUP…just like most IGNORANT “righties”….ya just can’t see beyond your weird biases.

Yes, some circumstances that some ppl experience blow ass, but I don’t think that excuses millions of people who have been sitting in a public area for half a bloody year now.

WHAT? What experiences “blow ass” and how should it “excuse” anything. Please make more sense. AND, what is it w/ you “conservatives” and your penchant for the hyperbole? Millions indeed….good grief. It’s really very hard to take what you & jhco say because of this. AND, the fact that YOU want to call something “irrelevant” and then take the time to comment on it seems a weeeebit “odd” to me. OR, is this just some form of lame “name-calling”?

It ain’t that hard to get a job…trust me.

LOL….okay. Which way do you “conservatives” want it? On the one hand, jobs are easy to get. On the other, Obama is causing the unemployment rate to “skyrocket”. AND, just what kind of expertise do YOU have to be telling us just how easy it is to get a job….FOR ALL PPL IN AMERICA? Good gawd,,,,,will the personal opinions//experiences being applied in a psudo-scientific hyperbole manner ever cease?

Irrelevant rant #2: No. I’m serious. Nobody there has a fucking clue as to why they’re occupying Wall Street. Watch these. All of them.

Sorry, not interested in any of it. Not really relevant. I’ve already stated that these “residuals” pretty much are the ones that fall into the last category of: There are those who make things happen,,,there are those who watch things happen,,,,,THEN, there are those who ask…WHAT is happening.

Didgya miss that part where I said it? Probably did. I find that far too many ppl are quite capbable of seeing//hearing ONLY what supports their biases. So, unless YOU can come up w/ something RELEVANT about the merit of what OWS is about….save your time//energy and stop focusing on the idiot shit that is ALWAYS A PART OF EVERYTHING. And, THAT is not a hyperbole….just a natural human fact of life.

Don’t worry. I’ve got soooooo many more than just these. And hang on…I’m going to find you a crime report really quick:
http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-document-record-of.html
That’s an old list too. And those are just the violent crimes.

OH,,,I’m quite sure that YOU have a whooooole lot of irrelevant crap to prove your bias. Hell, there is a whole “news” network dedicated to it. Let’s toss in the “conservative” radio talkshow hosts for good measure at how easily gulible ppl can be lead about on issues that should be obvious…..but are twisted by a need to support a biased position.

OH, that sure was a lot of “work” ya did there….all because of something I said that was “irrelevant”…..eh?

Irrelevant rant #3: Ummmmmm…what? How does this even REMOTELY correlate to ANYTHING? I could give a fuck less about the 60’s hippies. I was just making a point that at least they MAY have had SOMETHING respectable about them (although that may be a tad stretch of logic), and that the OWS hippies had NOTHING respectable about them.

What is it w/ you “conservatives” and your ability to format? YOU & jhco certainly do have some very suspicious “similarities” in this area. It certainly is hard to correlate what ya’re saying if ya just give random numbers to the points ya’re wanting to rebut.

YOU are the one that brought “hippies” into the discussion….SO, it falls upon YOU to make any rational connection and respond accordingly. If YOU want to show some comparison to the two groups (then & now)….then get on w/ it….make a comparative point. Just bringing up some vague connection really isn’t gonna cut it.

facepalm Karma, you and I both know damn well I can articulate my positions in a fairly logical fashion…and I don’t really know where you got that fact about conservatives from either…however, I don’t really see where this is coming into play in this argument at all.

NO…YOU may know this. BUT, I certainly don’t….and that sentence of yours pretty much shows why. It is soooo screwed up that I haven’t a clue on how to address it.

This argument does not call for my political positions or anything like that. I just don’t like whiny, leftist, hippies camping out on a public area with no real purpose.

Quite the contrary…..the OWS issue is at the very heart of American politics. NEWSFLASH. But then, if one is hell-bent on nurturing a sad bias rather than digging for the truth (hell, one doesn’t even have to dig….just pull their head outta their ass),,,,they will likely NEVER see the “forest-for-the-trees” because they are hopelessly “lost” in the woods.

Irrelevant rant #4: I believe you have, on more than one occasion, stated that you have a strong disdain for those of us to the right of the political spectrum.

NO….once again YOU have distorted a fact. There is a goodly number of “conservatives” that are to the “right” and they are merely MODERATES. It is the ones well past those that I have issue with….and, I have made this DISTINCTION before,,,many times. BUT, you & jhco certainly are slipping away from rational moderation in many of the views ya’ve expressed here on this forum.
 
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Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

@scoopolard
Watch this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVpTxRNwifQ&list=FLRu09GnLOn4Y5Ee11gxgN4w&index=11&feature=plcp
The argument is that occupy movement is not just about changing policies, but changing the culture. That’s why its targeted to be a long term movement.
But my position is, you gotta have demands, what a waste of determination. People are willing to gather to fight against monopoly, but then all of those energy were distracted into occupy wallstreet. Its toiling and bad, its only good for the so called 1%.
If only all of those energies were channeled to support state funding of political parties. Yes slacking would be an issue then, but after all these mayhems on sub-primes and unsymphatetical and arguably immoral government bailouts… what harm would the consequences of such policy compare?

Interesting points that guy makes…but they hold no water whatsoever. HE ALONE is acting as if he represents the true “hidden meaning” behind the OWS movement. In other words: He has absolutely no idea what the OWS movement wants either. He’s just making shit up based on what he thinks the vast majority of the OWS movements thinks. He actually has no bloody idea either, and he’s just as worthless. Although he does get a barely passing “D” for his creativity.
Please, don’t support these idiots. They don’t know what they want. They don’t understand how the “system” actually works, and they also have a basic misunderstanding of economics. These people are a bunch of lazy, hypocritical parasites who will literally do anything to live off the fruits of hard-working men and women’s labor. I have no sympathy for these people. None. None whatsoever. It’s just another production of the Trophy Generation.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122455219391652725.html

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by scoopolard:

Touchy? Nah. I’m good. I’m not the one using caps lock and excessive punctuation.

Nah….YOU are obviously VERY touchy about this issue,,,,SERIOUSLY touchy. Trying to infer that my “unique form” of typing somehow indicates a level of “touchiness” rather than actually addressing the merits of emotionalism is just childish.

Irrelevant rant #1: Sorry if I feel that personal responsibility is a trait that Americans need to have more of.

SO? NOW…try to tie that obvious, commonly held opinion to ALL of the issues surroundng the OWS. YOU wanna talk personal responsibility…..what about how BIG business is totally fucking over a lot of very responisble “little” ppl? YUP…just like most IGNORANT “righties”….ya just can’t see beyond your weird biases.

Yes, some circumstances that some ppl experience blow ass, but I don’t think that excuses millions of people who have been sitting in a public area for half a bloody year now.

WHAT? What experiences “blow ass” and how should it “excuse” anything. Please make more sense. AND, what is it w/ you “conservatives” and your penchant for the hyperbole? Millions indeed….good grief. It’s really very hard to take what you & jhco say because of this. AND, the fact that YOU want to call something “irrelevant” and then take the time to comment on it seems a weeeebit “odd” to me. OR, is this just some form of lame “name-calling”?

It ain’t that hard to get a job…trust me.

LOL….okay. Which way do you “conservatives” want it? On the one hand, jobs are easy to get. On the other, Obama is causing the unemployment rate to “skyrocket”. AND, just what kind of expertise do YOU have to be telling us just how easy it is to get a job….FOR ALL PPL IN AMERICA? Good gawd,,,,,will the personal opinions//experiences being applied in a psudo-scientific hyperbole manner ever cease?

Irrelevant rant #2: No. I’m serious. Nobody there has a fucking clue as to why they’re occupying Wall Street. Watch these. All of them.

Sorry, not interested in any of it. Not really relevant. I’ve already stated that these “residuals” pretty much are the ones that fall into the last category of: There are those who make things happen,,,there are those who watch things happen,,,,,THEN, there are those who ask…WHAT is happening.

Didgya miss that part where I said it? Probably did. I find that far too many ppl are quite capbable of seeing//hearing ONLY what supports their biases. So, unless YOU can come up w/ something RELEVANT about the merit of what OWS is about….save your time//energy and stop focusing on the idiot shit that is ALWAYS A PART OF EVERYTHING. And, THAT is not a hyperbole….just a natural human fact of life.

Don’t worry. I’ve got soooooo many more than just these. And hang on…I’m going to find you a crime report really quick:
http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-document-record-of.html
That’s an old list too. And those are just the violent crimes.

OH,,,I’m quite sure that YOU have a whooooole lot of irrelevant crap to prove your bias. Hell, there is a whole “news” network dedicated to it. Let’s toss in the “conservative” radio talkshow hosts for good measure at how easily gulible ppl can be lead about on issues that should be obvious…..but are twisted by a need to support a biased position.

OH, that sure was a lot of “work” ya did there….all because of something I said that was “irrelevant”…..eh?

Irrelevant rant #3: Ummmmmm…what? How does this even REMOTELY correlate to ANYTHING? I could give a fuck less about the 60’s hippies. I was just making a point that at least they MAY have had SOMETHING respectable about them (although that may be a tad stretch of logic), and that the OWS hippies had NOTHING respectable about them.

What is it w/ you “conservatives” and your ability to format? YOU & jhco certainly do have some very suspicious “similarities” in this area. It certainly is hard to correlate what ya’re saying if ya just give random numbers to the points ya’re wanting to rebut.

YOU are the one that brought “hippies” into the discussion….SO, it falls upon YOU to make any rational connection and respond accordingly. If YOU want to show some comparison to the two groups (then & now)….then get on w/ it….make a comparative point. Just bringing up some vague connection really isn’t gonna cut it.

facepalm Karma, you and I both know damn well I can articulate my positions in a fairly logical fashion…and I don’t really know where you got that fact about conservatives from either…however, I don’t really see where this is coming into play in this argument at all.

NO…YOU may know this. BUT, I certainly don’t….and that sentence of yours pretty much shows why. It is soooo screwed up that I haven’t a clue on how to address it.

This argument does not call for my political positions or anything like that. I just don’t like whiny, leftist, hippies camping out on a public area with no real purpose.

Quite the contrary…..the OWS issue is at the very heart of American politics. NEWSFLASH. But then, if one is hell-bent on nurturing a sad bias rather than digging for the truth (hell, one doesn’t even have to dig….just pull their head outta their ass),,,,they will likely NEVER see the “forest-for-the-trees” because they are hopelessly “lost” in the woods.

Irrelevant rant #4: I believe you have, on more than one occasion, stated that you have a strong disdain for those of us to the right of the political spectrum.

NO….once again YOU have distorted a fact. There is a goodly number of “conservatives” that are to the “right” and they are merely MODERATES. It is the ones well past those that I have issue with….and, I have made this DISTINCTION before,,,many times. BUT, you & jhco certainly are slipping away from rational moderation in many of the views ya’ve expressed here on this forum.

1) Yes. You know me better than I do. Interesting.
2) I have a working man’s sentiment. But I’m not going to support this “government controlled business model” that you leftist idiots are always slobbering over.
3) If you don’t understand this, then, well…I really don’t know what else to say to you. I was trying to imply that yes, many people experience things that would otherwise hinder their ability to acquire a job, however, that cannot POSSIBLY excuse ALL, or even the MAJORITY, of the fuckheads in OWS. Time to get a job fellas…or at least try to get a job. Smoking weed all bloody day in a tent doesn’t count.
4) No. I was simply implying that a lot of my generation (millennials/trophy kids) is simply too entitled to take a lot of jobs that may seem “demeaning”. Plus, I typically don’t argue with the unemployment rate anyway…I argue with a much more damning figure: the participation rate. It is currently at an all time low…it couldn’t possibly be all those lovely leftist welfare implementations could it? No. Of course not…who would’ve thought if you give a man free television, food, water, money, shelter, internet, and a goddamn cellphone for free he would lose the motivation to work?
5) These aren’t the residuals. These are the people that were there from the very fucking beginning. Check some of the dates of the videos. These idiots ARE the leaders of the OWS movement. And they have NO GODDAMN IDEA WHAT THEY’RE DOING.
6) Irrelevant. This is a list of facts. You can’t really fight facts. These people commit crimes by the dozens. It ain’t nothin’ new. Get used to it.
7) I honestly have no idea what the hell your point is here…and I honestly don’t really care what it is anyway.
8) Here. Let me help you (don’t worry, like the government, I’m here to hold your hand…come now child. Follow along): You insulted my ability, as well as every other conservatives’ ability to articulate their logic. I countered that by asking where in the bloody hell you got that idea from. You have yet to respond. I’ll be patiently waiting.
9) ACTUALLY, OWS has essentially been dismissed as most of America has finally recognized them for they are: whiny, leftist, unwashed, unbathed hippies who think it’s OK to camp out in a public area without a specific purpose, spread diseases, and shit on cop cars.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iOESA.jpg[/IMG]
What a polite gentleman.
10) No. I’m pretty sure I’ve read posts from you ranting about the evils of conservatism more than once.

 
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@scoopolard
What’s your opinion on the “state funded political parties” concept?

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Funny how we conservatives are so touchy about the stupidity we see in our everyday lives. OWS is nothing but a bunch of dickheads if they are anything like the ones that were here. They were dirty, morally lacking, liked to attack old ladies walking out of buildings. Real upstanding people. Of course that is not to mention all of the drugs. The police notified all of the indigents that they could get a free meal in the park. I had to laugh at that situation.

Hmmmmm....sorry, but somehow I'm unable to believe much of this actually happened. THAT is what happens when someone "cries WOLF" too often. jhco, this penchant of yours to EXAGERATE (hyperbole) simply renders much of what YOU say to be....well, shall we say: "not depenable". YOU constantly use inductive reasoning--usually PERSONAL "experiences" and information from obviously biased soruces--to nurture already well established biases.
Let me ask you if you really know what they are protesting?
NO, let ME ask YOU if YOU really know what they are protesting. Obviously YOU don't....for knowing what it is they are protesting seems to completely escape you & your other alt here on the site.
Is it the make believe 1%? Are they claiming to represent the rest of us…the 99%?
MAKE BELIEVE????? LOL jhco, your ignorance on this issue is appalling. Once again,,YOU typically refuse to see the heart of//what factors are behind the protest....in favor of trying to IGNORE it by focusing on the messenger rather than the message.
Or could it be they are a bunch of young radicals looking for a free ride in life…a typical Liberal trait.

I don't know. Why don't YOU find out for both of us rather than use INDUCTIVE logic to try to disqualify an event that actually benefits YOU.

One thing is certain,,,I'm pretty sure there are SOME of this element present in the protest. Sheeple come in all sizes, shapes, ideaology, politics, laziness, etc. The "conserative" faction is not w/o its very own "embarassments"....eh?

This looks like a good place to do "a little education":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street for YOU & that fella that very closely resembles YOU. Both of YOU seem to express an utter lack of what OWS is all about....INDUCTIVELY based on a small group of ppl who I've already described as being the "what happened" mentality.

"""Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is a protest movement that began September 17, 2011 in Zuccotti Park, located in New York City's Wall Street financial district. OWS was initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters and has led to Occupy protests and movements around the world. The OWS protests are against social and economic inequality, greed, corruption and the undue influence of corporations on government—particularly from the financial services sector. Their slogan, We are the 99%, addresses the growing income inequality and wealth distribution in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. To effect change OWS engages in "direct action" instead of petitioning authorities.[5"""

NOW, try to tell me the WORLD WIDE protest of "the-rich-keep-getting-richer-while-the-poor-keep-getting-poorer" doesn't represent YOU. In fact, YOU have been saying this very thing--in the many posts describing how the middle class is moving towards the lower class. Well, I guess YOU could actually be that "1%"....or maybe even the "10%". BUT, from the things YOU have stated about your personal life, I'd have to conclude that ya're likely somewhere in the 30's or 40's percentile.

I do know about the 60 hippies. They were morally corrupt dope heads who lived in communes and begged for their food from passerby. Peace loving Liberals. Again, it all falls into that same political type, give me the fruits of your labor so I can sit in my makeshift tent and do dope. I don’t think I ever met one who remembered to bath either. Oh yes, I remember them well.

NO,,you remember what your bias enabled ya to see. I say this because of the extreeeem hyperbolization of INDUCTIVE logic applied to a large group of ppl....ppl that YOU didn't actually know & what their true philosophical thinking was.

Radical conservatives? LOL! We are the radicals? Why, because we don’t want to work and give all of our money to the liberals? What is it you want from us radicals Karma? Pay for your home? Buy your condoms? Maybe we should just work and hand all of our money over to you liberals. then we can live in tents and watch our children go hungry and unbathed. That’s it, we can become the hippies you like so much.

Wow-O-wow....how refreshing to see some of your finest EXAGERATION all lumped together there. Well, actually, it has a rather pugent aroma of manufactured "paranoia" that opts to feed particular biases rather than seek out the actual TRUTH. NO, wait a minute...ya don't actually have to do any "seeking".

I've been telling YOU (for some time now) the facts behind the bias you so lovingly cling to. BUT, let's NOT disturbe a closed maind on this very obvious socio-economic inequality in life that is the true cause of the many things YOU bitch about.

As far as expressing our core beliefs, I think we have made those clear. It isn’t ignorance, we are the good guys. The responsible ones who work, raise our families, and contribute to society instead of trying to tear it apart and remake it in the image of Obama.
Well, in order for me to rebut this paragraph....all one need do is read the things I have written above.
I’m pretty sure after 60+ years I know the differences between conservatives and liberals.

NO,,,what YOU "know" is YOUR OWN PERSONAL understanding of what your biased, closed mind has developed....something we all are "guilty" of. Something that also is subject to a vastly differing depth & breadth among us.....some of which is extreeemly OBVIOUS because of how desparately it is clinged to regardless of how much truth it is exposed to.

It is also extreeeemly obvious because of the vehment penchant to use INDUCTIVE logic to support a capital bias. This is being presented rather poignantly by YOU and scoopy on this OWS issue where you two are trying to discredit the protest//movement by totally focusing on one partiularly pathetic representation of it rather than trying to address the issue itself. In a weird sort of method....you two are doing a "hyperbole" on the issue by attacking a odious "personification" of the movement,,,,,,a movement that is actually helping--to some degree or other--the 90%.

 
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Originally posted by scoopolard:
7) I honestly have no idea what the hell your point is here…and I honestly don’t really care what it is anyway.

Well…here we have an understatement of the obvious…..lol

I, on the other hand, DO KNOW what your point is. It is to use inductive logic//reasoning to feed pathetic biases. Read my response to jhco (your alter ego?) and know that pretty much ALL OF IT also applies to YOU.

I tell ya what,,, it would help a tremendous amount when YOU learn to format your responses in a way that doesn’t involve some very confusing simple quoting of a post and then not addressing each individual point Instead, YOU (and jhco does the EXACT SAME THING….hmmmm, interesting) merely start arbitrarily start assigning numbers to your responses. Hell, if ya don’t want to address each point directly…..then at least interject this weird numbering system ya use into the quoted post. THAT really isn’t all that hard to do.

 
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@karmakoolkid and scoopolard
I don’t know your history you probably had some kind of ancestral vendetta aganist each other. But I’m sure you are very intelligent people know how to discuss issues without implying personal attacks about how irrelevant your counterparts’ minds are.
Or let me a millienial generation remind you how to do it,
1. Ask question about why is it that you think the way you think
2. Present arguments or sources why you think that way of thinking is inapplicable or wrong
3. Everyone makes mistakes, let them have it and always give room for them to change their minds

If you had the correct argument but you slander your counterpart, if he/she wanted to change his/her minds it would be too embarassing or repulsive for them to do so. That’s a loss of a point of view right there, this would block us from further growing to new conclusions that are better than before or better understanding about each other.

 
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LOL…Sleepy,,,,thanks for the “tutorial”

First, let’s have a look at YOUR:
""About me:
I think the world would be a better place if we give thanks more. Nothing valuable is without cost, respect people’s work as the scarcity of the world is not of money, time, nor energy, but of solutions, mutual solutions.

Love is the inclination to keep interactions happening, lets love to love and love one another.

Jesus, the lamb of God who died to pay for our sins, bless you.""

THAT would likely “explain” your concept that we all can live in harmony. Have YOU actually read the many exchanges between me and jhco//sleepy? If not, aren’t YOU being just a weeeebit prejudiced…using inductive logic here? It would appear that YOU have developed a postion that is erroneous.

Let me address your points:
1. We have asked,,many times,,for these answers…only to have them ignored, responded irrationally, or presented in a circular manner.

2. Ditto to number 1.

3. It’s awfully hard to change a closed mind.

I challenge the “more conservative thinking” in order to give those “younger” than I so that they might have an insight to the various thoughts on an issue. Besides, I find it "amusing to poke holes in positions that have been formed by inductive logic designed to “legitimize” particular biases.

But, thanks to ya, sleepy for trying to believe that open minds are easily come by. They are a product of a fervent quest for the TRUTH,,,,,rather than silly, childish clinging to early prejudices formed at an age when little information was held by the person. It’s really just that simple. Stereotypes are easy to maintain….very easy. Working to find the “greater picture” is much, MUCH harder.

Please note…such “human malady” cuts across all political & ideological positions. No one “side” of the issues is immune to it. If YOU read the religious threads I think you’ll see some of this…some that greatly challenges your own religious beliefs. At one time, the clergy—typically some of the brightest ppl—strongly fought the idea that the earth wasn’t flat….then the idea that the earth wasn’t the center of the universe. Those who find “confort” in their pet biases—of whatever ilk—will fight extreeeemly hard to preserve this feeling.

Please allow me to point out that intellectual capacity doesn’t necessarily preclude ppl from failing to seek the truth. In fact, an “elevated” intellect all too often is quite adept at “enhancing” the bias. When I was your age,,,,I very naively believed ppl weren’t all that “different” in their philosophical, political, and religious views. EXPERIENCE is a fine “teacher”,,,at least she can be…..lol

 
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@karmakoolkid
I admit I haven’t carefully read all of your debates, because apparently I missed that scoopolard is actually around my age. However it really feels like you guys are seriously cornering each other, more than you’re trying to encourage valuable intellectual products from each other. Its as if you’re implying I have nothing to learn from you.

That kind of tone is tiring to go through, and your debates are long. There’s some amusing elements but after a while it starts to make me less motivated in reading through the rest of your conversations.

 
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your first posts with jhco50 is quite interesting but then your “fight” with scoopolard is what I’m complaining about.

 
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First of all Karma, where were you last night when I was bored out of my gourd? Second, Scoop and I are two different people, not an alt. I like Scoop, he is very intelligent and quite astute. :) I don’t mind being compared to him.

You have been given, many times, the basis of our views. The experience you refer to gives you the knowledge of conservatism, so I really don’t need to explain it to you. You know, my parents taught me to respect my elders, but as we both know, they are getting harder for us to find…LOL.

Our views differ in that you think an all powerful government can fix any social ills in our society. You believe we can throw money at a problem and it will be good. I fully understand your views on the subject.

However, Scoop (a fine young conservative) and I don’t view life as you do. We believe in personal responsibility. We know that equal opportunity exists and only needs the effort to reach out for it and a better life. We believe in helping the downtrodden only enough to get them back on their feet so they can then take care of themselves. We do not want them to become a ward of the state for the rest of their lives. It is not fair to them or us.

Now I realize some people have problems that can be long term, but I also realize that given the opportunity to just sit on their butts and live off the effort of others can be enticing. Where you and I differ is you are willing to let them and I am not.

Your truth and my truth are different, your idea of the human malady and mine are different. Society has changed in our lifetimes. There are those who think they are owed a living by others rather than earning their way. You know this as well as I do. You are willing to accept this as long as others donate the money you want to give to them. I feel if they are not willing to work for what they get, they can go hungry and live on the streets. I am not the type to sit around the campfire, holding hands, and singing songs of peace.

 
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@scoopolard
Maybe if it isn’t there’s one already, you’d start a new topic about the millienials / trophy generation? I found it interesting and still trying to find words to make my own comment about it. Thanks for sharing it.

 
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Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

your first posts with jhco50 is quite interesting but then your “fight” with scoopolard is what I’m complaining about.

I’m concerned that ya’ve (obviously?) missed much of what my points on this issue are.

One: I’m not “attacking” the "conservatives on this forum….I don’t know them. I am, however, vehemently “going for the jugular” (fighting?) on much of their opinions//positions on the issues….and doing so on several fronts & for several reasons.

Two: Some of the reasons being: Many of the “conservative viewpoints” harm & limit the freedoms of so many ppl…INCLUDING THEM AS WELL. This particular thread so clearly demonstrates how a bias can be soooooo “blinding” as to fall woefully short of penetrating the closed mind.

Three: A few of the fronts would be: Gay marriage,,,abortion,,,OWS,,,etc. Since YOU haven’t been in on these “discussions”,,,I can well understand your—shall we say—lack of a respectable understanding of the way the “conservative mind” works. I’ve already stated this in how they use INDUCTIVE logic to obtain a suitable amount of data by which they can feed their pet biases.

Four: I’d hoped YOU could see how this works in that they slice out this ridiculous “current port esters” of the disgust of the rich & how they mismanage society to the point that the poor is getting a whoooole lot poorer & their ranks are swelling.

Here, please allow me to, once again, point out just what OWS WAS about. I say WAS because the “real” protesters have made their point and moved on….much as YOU pointed out that should be a proper course of endeavor.

The only ppl still around are exactly those pointed out by scoopy & jhco. However, it is rather childish to conjure & maintain the position that these deralicts somehow represent the philosophy of the OWS. I see it as a lot of desperate “smoke & mirrors” attempt to forestall facing the truth of the matter.

"""Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is a protest movement that began September 17, 2011 in Zuccotti Park, located in New York City’s Wall Street financial district. OWS was initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters and has led to Occupy protests and movements around the world. The OWS protests are against social and economic inequality, greed, corruption and the undue influence of corporations on government—particularly from the financial services sector. Their slogan, We are the 99%, addresses the growing income inequality and wealth distribution in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. To effect change OWS engages in “direct action” instead of petitioning authorities.5"""

I hope ya can see that ANYONE who isn’t in the upper 20% should actually be joining in this protest…..what is being protested is affecting them in a very negative way. HOWEVER, as I pointed out…the “consummate conservative” is quite adept at supporting that which is diametrically opposed to their welfare.

It is this penchant for “folly” that I relish exposing.

 
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Damn Canadians.
I tell you, they’re a bunch of troublemakers, and no-goodniks.
;)

 
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LOL! I’m sorry Karma but sometimes you try to come across as an all knowing, all seeing, father like figure and it always makes me laugh. Nothing personal, just funny. Us poor naive conservatives.

 
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You are naive. You, as a party and segment of the population, consistently vote AGAINST your own best interests, and those of the rest of us in the working class.

 
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@karmakoolkid
Firstly, thanks for the info on OWS its a nice needed info for the topic.

Well it might be just your style of debating but calling others IGNORANT, and when they’re trying to give you their sources you call them irrelevant crap, you labelled him as biased without even finishing to the point of conclusion of the discussion, seemed counterproductive to me. You were implying that their conservative position means that they’re a bunch of gullible kids willing to support anything that “mama” said. Scoopolard went back and said liberals (you) are idiots, some kind of a helpless little kid, some kind of delusional guy who are not accustomed to the things called facts, umm and what else, reimplying that he thinks you’re an idiot by saying “I have no idea what your point, and I don’t really care what it is”. Well I admit after your explanation and jhco’s remarks I kinda able to see the non hostile side of it better now haha.

But that kinda harmless applies to you, but maybe not to others who might be reading this topic. And still I think its counterproductive at some point.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

LOL…Sleepy,,,,thanks for the “tutorial”

Sleepy, hahaha I like it.

@karmakoolkid, you said:

THAT would likely “explain” your concept that we all can live in harmony


and

It would appear that YOU have developed a postion that is erroneous.

personally if I believe in Jesus I’ve been promised the power to face entropy. If I were going to live forever with people, there’s no point for me to be bitter and to not get along with them. And also it would be dangerous for me to embrace and grow the feeling of hate against others, it might seem like a little thing but if you’re going to live forever, that hatred could bring you to doom. IMO the doom could be the loss of the desire to keep on experiencing life.

I believe in the ressurrection of the dead, that we would be risen not as empty zombies but as laws and we would be sorted or arranged, some would be a part of love some would not be.

Please note…such “human malady” cuts across all political & ideological positions. No one “side” of the issues is immune to it. If YOU read the religious threads I think you’ll see some of this…some that greatly challenges your own religious beliefs. At one time, the clergy—typically some of the brightest ppl—strongly fought the idea that the earth wasn’t flat….then the idea that the earth wasn’t the center of the universe. Those who find “confort” in their pet biases—of whatever ilk—will fight extreeeemly hard to preserve this feeling.

I’m fully aware of this, and feel bad about it as well. That makes me think if OWS protesters might had a point by making no point at all. I’m serious, because they just expressed their feelings instead of making specific demands that might be tampered with wrong prejudices.
However, I still think that doing so could be such a waste of energy. So many people, so little production, one way or another could they do something else instead? Like lobbying for a state funded political parties in the meantime?

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

You are naive. You, as a party and segment of the population, consistently vote AGAINST your own best interests, and those of the rest of us in the working class.

Oh softest, you know that isn’t true. We just believe in different ideals than the lefties.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by scoopolard:
7) I honestly have no idea what the hell your point is here…and I honestly don’t really care what it is anyway.

Well…here we have an understatement of the obvious…..lol

I, on the other hand, DO KNOW what your point is. It is to use inductive logic//reasoning to feed pathetic biases. Read my response to jhco (your alter ego?) and know that pretty much ALL OF IT also applies to YOU.

I tell ya what,,, it would help a tremendous amount when YOU learn to format your responses in a way that doesn’t involve some very confusing simple quoting of a post and then not addressing each individual point Instead, YOU (and jhco does the EXACT SAME THING….hmmmm, interesting) merely start arbitrarily start assigning numbers to your responses. Hell, if ya don’t want to address each point directly…..then at least interject this weird numbering system ya use into the quoted post. THAT really isn’t all that hard to do.

My alter ego? sigh…Man, Karma…you appear to have completely lost your marbles…I literally have no motivation whatsoever to create an alternate. I’ve always thought that one character was enough…I really see no motive for creating another. Try again.

Figure it out. I’m sure you can, I mean, after all, your are all-knowing, all-powerful, enlightened, and omniscient, right?

Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

@karmakoolkid and scoopolard
I don’t know your history you probably had some kind of ancestral vendetta aganist each other. But I’m sure you are very intelligent people know how to discuss issues without implying personal attacks about how irrelevant your counterparts’ minds are.
Or let me a millienial generation remind you how to do it,
1. Ask question about why is it that you think the way you think
2. Present arguments or sources why you think that way of thinking is inapplicable or wrong
3. Everyone makes mistakes, let them have it and always give room for them to change their minds

If you had the correct argument but you slander your counterpart, if he/she wanted to change his/her minds it would be too embarassing or repulsive for them to do so. That’s a loss of a point of view right there, this would block us from further growing to new conclusions that are better than before or better understanding about each other.

Karma is not going to directly listen. My only hope is that these ideas that I present him with will eventually cause a sort of biological cognitive dissonance within his leftist mind due to all of the flaws and fallacies consistent throughout the entire liberal ideology.

Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

@scoopolard
Maybe if it isn’t there’s one already, you’d start a new topic about the millienials / trophy generation? I found it interesting and still trying to find words to make my own comment about it. Thanks for sharing it.

I might start one up here soon. And yeah, no problem.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

your first posts with jhco50 is quite interesting but then your “fight” with scoopolard is what I’m complaining about.

I’m concerned that ya’ve (obviously?) missed much of what my points on this issue are.

One: I’m not “attacking” the "conservatives on this forum….I don’t know them. I am, however, vehemently “going for the jugular” (fighting?) on much of their opinions//positions on the issues….and doing so on several fronts & for several reasons.

Two: Some of the reasons being: Many of the “conservative viewpoints” harm & limit the freedoms of so many ppl…INCLUDING THEM AS WELL. This particular thread so clearly demonstrates how a bias can be soooooo “blinding” as to fall woefully short of penetrating the closed mind.

Three: A few of the fronts would be: Gay marriage,,,abortion,,,OWS,,,etc. Since YOU haven’t been in on these “discussions”,,,I can well understand your—shall we say—lack of a respectable understanding of the way the “conservative mind” works. I’ve already stated this in how they use INDUCTIVE logic to obtain a suitable amount of data by which they can feed their pet biases.

Four: I’d hoped YOU could see how this works in that they slice out this ridiculous “current port esters” of the disgust of the rich & how they mismanage society to the point that the poor is getting a whoooole lot poorer & their ranks are swelling.

Here, please allow me to, once again, point out just what OWS WAS about. I say WAS because the “real” protesters have made their point and moved on….much as YOU pointed out that should be a proper course of endeavor.

The only ppl still around are exactly those pointed out by scoopy & jhco. However, it is rather childish to conjure & maintain the position that these deralicts somehow represent the philosophy of the OWS. I see it as a lot of desperate “smoke & mirrors” attempt to forestall facing the truth of the matter.

"""Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is a protest movement that began September 17, 2011 in Zuccotti Park, located in New York City’s Wall Street financial district. OWS was initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters and has led to Occupy protests and movements around the world. The OWS protests are against social and economic inequality, greed, corruption and the undue influence of corporations on government—particularly from the financial services sector. Their slogan, We are the 99%, addresses the growing income inequality and wealth distribution in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. To effect change OWS engages in “direct action” instead of petitioning authorities.5"""

I hope ya can see that ANYONE who isn’t in the upper 20% should actually be joining in this protest…..what is being protested is affecting them in a very negative way. HOWEVER, as I pointed out…the “consummate conservative” is quite adept at supporting that which is diametrically opposed to their welfare.

It is this penchant for “folly” that I relish exposing.

Yes, we are just so closed-minded. Yes. That’s the problem.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Wk3ZS.jpg[/IMG]

Based on what you just said, it is fairly clear that you do not understand the conservative mind at all whatsoever. You made a reference to fighting (going for the jugular). Well, let me put it this way, you know so little about us and our way of thought, that you continue to fight us by attempting to stab our asses…the jugular is in the throat…just saying.

Originally posted by softest_voice:

You are naive. You, as a party and segment of the population, consistently vote AGAINST your own best interests, and those of the rest of us in the working class.

Man, Softest…you sure showed him.

Jhco: [Long string of logic and coherent thought]
You: NUH-UH!

Smooth.

 
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Originally posted by scoopolard:

Man, Softest…you sure showed him.

Jhco: [Long string of logic and coherent thought]
You: NUH-UH!

Smooth.

Oh, come on. You know softest listed a coherent, if not very long, reason why he felt the way he felt. You don’t have to demean or make fun of it.

 
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Probably won’t post much tonight. I’m getting too old to change toilets and they have changed a lot. Hadn’t done one in 30+ years and I hope it is another 30+ years…oh wait, I gotta do one in the other house…sigh. :)

I can’t argue to much with Karma, you handled it so well. I think Softest is just pulling our chains. I think he is a conservative in incognito, LOL.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by scoopolard:

Man, Softest…you sure showed him.

Jhco: [Long string of logic and coherent thought]
You: NUH-UH!

Smooth.

Oh, come on. You know softest listed a coherent, if not very long, reason why he felt the way he felt. You don’t have to demean or make fun of it.

Not really. There was no backing to it whatsoever. He just sad it like it was some universal truth.

 
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I hope both sides are able to convince the other of their inconsistencies, but that’s rare. Conservatives say they mistrust government and want it to be small, but are generally the first to support wars (the no.1 expander of government size and reach, and typically based on lies) and use government to impose their preferences on people. Liberals say they stand for the poor and minorities, but advocate policies that harm them (the poverty rate stopped falling right when the big government anti-poverty programs started). The real consistent positions are radical libertarianism or totalitarianism.