Quote Discussion, Current quote: “The problems of victory are more agreeable than those of defeat, but they are no less difficult.”

In this thread, I will present a quote. The goal is to encourage discussion on the different interpretations and meanings of the quote. Every few days, I will present a new quote for discussion. This will be an ongoing thread with a changing focus.

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Current quote:

“The problems of victory are more agreeable than those of defeat, but they are no less difficult.”

~Winston Churchill

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Previous quotes:

“He who desires but acts not, breeds pestilence.”

-William Blake

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”

-Oscar Wilde

“Hell does not exist to punish sinners. Hell exists to ensure that no one sins.”

-Jun’ya “ZUN” Ota

“Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else’s opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.”

-Oscar Wilde

“The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.”

-Albert Einstein

“The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.”

-George Patton

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

-Mahatma Gandhi

“We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.”

-Aesop

“You don’t win the battle by doing what’s right. You win by doing what’s necessary.”

-Unknown (possibly Tom Clancy)

“If you speak the truth, have one foot in the stirrup.”

-Turkish Proverb

“I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts, there can be no more hurt, only more love.”

-Mother Teresa

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.”

-Sun Tzu

“A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him.”

-David Brinkley

“It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.”

-Benito Mussolini

“A coward dies a thousand deaths, a brave man dies but once.”

-William Shakespeare

“Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil.”

-Niccolo Machiavelli

“A throne is only a bench covered with velvet.”

-Napoleon Bonaparte

“I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion.”

-Alexander the Great

“The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.”

-Sun Tzu

“Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally then to succeed unconventionally.”

-John Maynard Keynes

“Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.”

-John F. Kennedy

“What makes us human may one day be defined not by the gifts we possess, but by the virtues we lack.”

-Unknown

“God not only plays dice. He also sometimes throws the dice where they cannot be seen.”

-Stephen Hawking

“The most exciting attractions are between two opposites that never meet.”

-Andy Warhol

“The child is father of the man.”

-William Wordsworth

“A real man will keep all the promises the last man broke.”

-Unknown

“All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.”

-Voltaire

“If we take the generally accepted definition of bravery as a quality which knows no fear, I have never seen a brave man. All men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened.”

-George Patton

“A man who won’t die for something is not fit to live.”

-Martin Luther King Jr.

“Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.”

-Martin Luther

“Hell is other people.”

-Jean-Paul Sartre

“Man as an individual is a genius. But men in the mass form the headless monster, a great, brutish idiot that goes where prodded.”

-Charlie Chaplin

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.”

-Gilbert K. Chesterton

“All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full.”

-King Solomon

“Time is dead as long as it is being clicked off by little wheels; only when the clock stops does time come to life.”

-William Faulkner

“Run away from greatness and greatness will follow you.”

-Abu Bakr

“I know that I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing.”

-Socrates

“Beware that you do not lose the substance by grasping at the shadow.”

-Aesop

“A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.”

~Muhammad Ali

“Prey on the weak and you will survive, prey on the strong and you will live.”

~real world source unknown

“If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.”

~Albert Einstein

“Adults are obsolete children.”

~Dr. Seuss

“With kindness comes naïveté. Courage becomes foolhardiness. And dedication has no reward.”

~Gen Urobuchi

“One man with courage makes a majority.”

~Andrew Jackson

“It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends.”

~J. K. Rowling

“It’s better to burn out than to fade away.”

~Kurt Cobain

“What Washington needs is adult supervision.”

~Barack Obama

“Genius is more often found in a cracked pot than in a whole one.”

~E. B. White

“Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.”

~William Butler Yeats

“I never found a companion that was so companionable as solitude.”

~Henry David Thoreau

“When you dance with death, lead.”

~real world source unknown

“If you’re going through hell, keep going.”

~Winston Churchill

“The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.”

~Tom Clancy

“You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.”

~Buddha

“One sees great things from the valley; only small things from the peak.”

~Gilbert K. Chesterton

“It is best to rise from life as from a banquet, neither thirsty nor drunken.”

~Aristotle

“Obey the principles without being bound by them.”

~Bruce Lee

“Cut off a wolf’s head and it still has the power to bite.”

~Hayao Miyazaki

“You can’t just let nature run wild.”

~Walt Disney

“A wounded deer leaps the highest.”

~Emily Dickinson

“Good artists copy, great artists steal.”

~Pablo Picasso

“It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision.”

~Helen Keller

“Placed in the middle am I, is it futile to try to be separate as one?”

~T Stebbins

“He who is not a good servant will not be a good master.”

~Plato

“The most effective way to kill an opponent is to slice through the man next to him.”

~real world source unknown

“Follow love and it will flee, flee love and it will follow thee.”

~John Gay

“To speak gratitude is courteous and pleasant, to enact gratitude is generous and noble, but to live gratitude is to touch Heaven.”

~Johannes A. Gaertner

“Force may make hypocrites, but it can never make converts.”

~William Penn

“Where there is no struggle, there is no strength.”

~Oprah Winfrey

“We love but once, for once only are we perfectly equipped for loving.”

~Cyril Connolly

“To have felt too much is to end in feeling nothing.”

~Dorothy Thompson

“A great man is always willing to be little.”

~Ralph Waldo Emerson

“We adore chaos because we love to produce order.”

~M. C. Escher

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”

~Leonardo da Vinci

“Knowing what must be done does away with fear.”

~Rosa Parks

“Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.”

~Albert Einstein

“When God desires to destroy a thing, he entrusts its destruction to the thing itself. Every bad institution of this world ends by suicide.”

~Victor Hugo

“Love is an emotion experienced by the many and enjoyed by the few.”

~George Jean Nathan

“The one on shore is a master swimmer.”

~Egyptian Proverb

“When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.”

~Alexis de Tocqueville

“I think in terms of the day’s resolutions, not the years’.”

~Henry Moore

“Not all who wander are lost.”

~J. R. R. Tolkien

“He who learns but does not think, is lost. He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger.”

~Confucius

“God is a concept by which we measure our pain.”

~John Lennon

“Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school.”

~Albert Einstein

“In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

~Martin Luther King, Jr.

“He who conquers others is strong; He who conquers himself is mighty.”

~Lao Tzu

“This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.”

~Horace Walpole

“True friends stab you in the front.”

~Oscar Wilde

“If you could only love enough, you could be the most powerful person in the world.”

~Emmet Fox

“Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing.”

~Euripides

“No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”

~Voltaire

“Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product.”

~Eleanor Roosevelt

“If you want to be thought a liar, always tell the truth.”

~Logan P. Smith

“He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.”

~Elbert Hubbard

“Your intellect may be confused, but your emotions will never lie to you.”

~Roger Ebert

“We must not demean life by standing in awe of death.”

~David Sarnoff

“Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied.”

~Mark Twain

“Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.”

~real world source unknown

“When men sow the wind it is rational to expect that they will reap the whirlwind.”

~Frederick Douglass

“There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept.”

~Ansel Adams

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If someone would like to suggest a quote, send me a message.

Pestilence—something evil, unwanted, or destructive. So I would say you are close. Someone who wants something but does not act or put in place plans to obtain it, can count on having unwanted results. Although i think for the author to put pestilence in there is overdramatic. Just because one didn’t get the job they desired doesn’t make it an “evil” result :-)

Good thing Hitler acted, else he would have bred pestilence.

Originally posted by Senakus:

Good thing Hitler acted, else he would have bred pestilence.

I like the part where you took it way too literally.

Though seriously, I still am wondering how you haven’t been banned yet.

Originally posted by Senakus:

Good thing Hitler acted, else he would have bred pestilence.

Hitler desired pestilence

Originally posted by Senakus:

Good thing Hitler acted, else he would have bred pestilence.

Some great innovations came out of WW2, and the following cold war, so yes, I’d say it was a good thing.

The first quote didn’t get much discussion, so I’m changing the quote a little sooner than I planned.

Here is the new quote:

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”

-Oscar Wilde

I think this is a good, right to the point way of saying that a lot of so called “patriots” are harming society. Real patriots would understand diversity. Racists who hate immigrants and call themselves “patriots” are damaging our society. What do you think of this quote and what it says about “patriots”?

There’s only one kind of TRUE patriots: patriots of the world and humanity.
The rest are just greedy politicians with a single love – for money.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious? I guess it could be taken two ways, depending on whether you placed the “vicious” first or the “patriotism”. It could mean that a lot of patriots are misconstruing the real meaning of patriotism and are destroying things instead. It could also mean that patriotism brings out the most ferocious qualities in people—it is something they will defend to the death.

Originally posted by somebody613:

There’s only one kind of TRUE patriots: patriots of the world and humanity.
The rest are just greedy politicians with a single love – for money.

Remind me to never ask you to do any shading work.

HUH?

Originally posted by somebody613:

HUH?

You do not see the shades of colors well.

Particularly grey.

You’re wrong.
I meant, that I fully agree with the quote, that patriotism is just a way to attack “others”.
We should love HUMANS, not COUNTRIES.
Patriots willingly and happily kill PEOPLE, if they serve in the army of an “enemy” COUNTRY.
Just another reason to KILL, not LOVE…
That’s why I consider it FAKE and EVIL.
Grey can’t be used in the case of LIVES being at stake…

Originally posted by somebody613:

You’re wrong.
I meant, that I fully agree with the quote, that patriotism is just a way to attack “others”.
We should love HUMANS, not COUNTRIES.
Patriots willingly and happily kill PEOPLE, if they serve in the army of an “enemy” COUNTRY.
Just another reason to KILL, not LOVE…
That’s why I consider it FAKE and EVIL.
Grey can’t be used in the case of LIVES being at stake…

To love your own nation, and want it to grow, and be pridefull of your own nationhood, doesnt mean you have to despite all other nations and think everything outside your nation should perish. I consider myself very patriotic, but I am hardly xenophobic.

Problem is, many patriots can quite see the difference… And mankind already has the natural tendence to hate the different, so…

I see no way to separate the concepts of patriotism and xenophobia.
Both are implying “mine” and “yours”.
Except one is violent, while the other is latent.
For a while…

Originally posted by somebody613:

I see no way to separate the concepts of patriotism and xenophobia.

Yeah, there’s the problem.

tenco, seriously.
Patriotism is basically “I’m better than you, so it makes me proud”.
Xenophobia is basically “You’re worse than me, so it makes me despise/hate you”.
They’re quite identical and both based on comparison.
Do YOU know the way to separate them?

Originally posted by somebody613:
Do YOU know the way to separate them?

Yes, in fact you just did with your definitions.

Originally posted by somebody613:

tenco, seriously.
Patriotism is basically “I’m better than you, so it makes me proud”.
Xenophobia is basically “You’re worse than me, so it makes me despise/hate you”.
They’re quite identical and both based on comparison.
Do YOU know the way to separate them?

This is where you are wrong.

It is not a matter of automatically assume you are superior, just because you are from the country you are. It is a matter of knowing your country traditions, and dont be afraid of assuming then, rather then just ignoring then and copiyng other countries.

In this aspect, I can be considered quite anticonventional of a patriot, as I am actually a natural rebel. I guess that more apropriate would be to say, that I do not love the Brazil which is, but the Brazil which could be…

Originally posted by Dartval:

The first quote didn’t get much discussion, so I’m changing the quote a little sooner than I planned.

Here is the new quote:

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”

-Oscar Wilde

I think this is a good, right to the point way of saying that a lot of so called “patriots” are harming society. Real patriots would understand diversity. Racists who hate immigrants and call themselves “patriots” are damaging our society. What do you think of this quote and what it says about “patriots”?

You do know that there is a hell of a lot more to patriotism than immigration, right? And you do know there is a hell of a lot more to illegal immigration than race, right? No. You probably don’t.
And you do know that true, red-blooded patriots want nothing more than to help the society that they’re born into, right? And you do know that hundreds of thousands of true patriots have laid down their lives to defend the nation they love, right? Patriots aren’t just the boys at the borders. Patriots are soldiers. Patriots are the boys in blue. Patriots are the ardent workers of this nation. Patriots are the ones who would literally put their lives on the line to save their nation.
But no. You wouldn’t understand that would you? Bite the hand that feeds you. Bite it hard. Forget what was given to you by the “racist” patriots. Forget all about it. It doesn’t matter anymore. It just doesn’t matter.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NjL2C.jpg[/IMG]

scoop
The problem that was raised here, is that most REAL-LIFE “patriots” are MUCH less concerned about “building up their country”, but rather “fighting the supposed enemies of the country”.
The people, who REALLY build their countries, more than usually DON’T put on the “patriot” nickname…
They just DO THEIR JOB…
The louder one shouts (about how “patriotic” HE is), the more probably he does nothing useful (but effectively tries to incite strifes)…

Originally posted by scoopolard:
Patriots are soldiers. Patriots are the boys in blue. Patriots are the ardent workers of this nation. Patriots are the ones who would literally put their lives on the line to save their nation.

Have you served in the armed forces, scoop? Not arguing or anything, just curious.

Originally posted by scoopolard:

Originally posted by Dartval:

The first quote didn’t get much discussion, so I’m changing the quote a little sooner than I planned.

Here is the new quote:

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”

-Oscar Wilde

I think this is a good, right to the point way of saying that a lot of so called “patriots” are harming society. Real patriots would understand diversity. Racists who hate immigrants and call themselves “patriots” are damaging our society. What do you think of this quote and what it says about “patriots”?

You do know that there is a hell of a lot more to patriotism than immigration, right? And you do know there is a hell of a lot more to illegal immigration than race, right? No. You probably don’t.
And you do know that true, red-blooded patriots want nothing more than to help the society that they’re born into, right? And you do know that hundreds of thousands of true patriots have laid down their lives to defend the nation they love, right? Patriots aren’t just the boys at the borders. Patriots are soldiers. Patriots are the boys in blue. Patriots are the ardent workers of this nation. Patriots are the ones who would literally put their lives on the line to save their nation.
But no. You wouldn’t understand that would you? Bite the hand that feeds you. Bite it hard. Forget what was given to you by the “racist” patriots. Forget all about it. It doesn’t matter anymore. It just doesn’t matter.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NjL2C.jpg[/IMG]

I did not say that patriots are racists. I admire the true patriots like the people you are talking about. What I don’t like is people who are racist that call themselves “patriots”.

Perhaps the quote could be phrased better, but it does express something that is true. Patriotism, unless it’s tied up in ideas that one understands and is devoted to, is basically just tribalism. Patriotism can be felt by even the simplest and basest minds – and they are often the ones that most rabid about it.

Patriotism isn’t just a US thing. The inhabitants of many countries that hyper-patriotic US conservatives would consider to be unremarkable backwaters are just as patriotic as the US conservatives. I’m living in Turkey now, where even the leftists are as nationalistic and militaristic as US conservatives.

To be specific about myself as related to the US, I love the classical liberal history of Jeffersonianism. I’m not so happy about the utter negation of it in the modern welfare/warfare leviathan state. Bill Clinton said you can’t say that you love your country and hate it’s government. I will say precisely that.

This quote’s discussion has died down, so here is the next one:

“Hell does not exist to punish sinners. Hell exists to ensure that no one sins.”

-Jun’ya “ZUN” Ota

My opinion on this quote is that just the threat of a negative consequence can discourage an action. Sort of like how the best weapon is one you don’t need to fire.