Good news for all you people who don’t have any spiritual beliefs out there page 2 (locked)

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Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

Thank you Twilight, memories are objects, computer scientists should have the best definition for it. IMO memories are formation made after experiencing interactions.

Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but they’ve made some really great Sci-Fi on these ideas. Like Battlestar Galactica, and it’s ability to “transfer” memories into Cyclons so they were just like human? And who was to say they weren’t human, really, since they were like humans down to a cellular level? Thought provoking stuff.

Aging is a process I could only comprehend a little, but there must be a purpose for aging, new skills to learn and interesting things to explore.

Yes, love and wisdom I think are two of the big things we are supposed to take away from the experience.

 
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Originally posted by Sleepallnight:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

I am not going to go into the technical improbability of some of your claims since they are not really important. What i think is important, is your claim that god can recreate people based on their memories. Problem is that the memories a person has are unique for pretty much every second of his life. The you now is greatly different then the you a week ago. The memories are different and so are their inclinations(their love as you put it). Even if god has the power to bring back such memories which should he pick and why. Think about before answering and i mean really think about. How do memories change during life, how the change effects the lives of the people.


Well I want to post things so that people could correct them because me alone might not be able to notice my own thoughts objectively. In terms of memories, that’s why I also talked about personalities, and the connection or the relationships between memories to other memories are personalities. I want to know about the technical mistakes if you will.

Its OT so i am not really going to go into the technical stuff. You can make a new thread and talk about the possibility of creating data backups/virtual versions of the universe/world there.


Back to Topic Afterlife. I don´t get what your saying about personalities being the connection or the relationship between memories(as if that would make a difference). Personalities are the expression of memories(or memory sets if you want to differentiate between single memories and groups of Memories).
Personalities, Memory sets, single Memories, Inclinations and Love. All of it constantly changes during life, never remaining truly the same.
If you ask people with which memories they would like to be “reborn” you will get very different answers. And if you look at some older people and how their mental state has deteriorated you should be able to guess that some people would not like the idea of being reborn with the last the Set of memories/in the last State they were in. A war veteran or someone abused as a child might have to live with forever having a very negative traumatic experience or losing the memories of a love one.
If they have/get to pick who gets to pick? Me from my twenty’s would pick very differently than the me today, the me from tomorrow might not be in the best mental state to pick anything.


Afterlife makes me always think about Alzheimer and demented old people as well as all those people who lost a lover, continued living and found a new lover(in some cases repeat). Which wife i am going to be married too?

 
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Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Originally posted by issendorf:
There isn’t an afterlife

Citation needed

I can’t have one because they are impossible to disprove…

Does nobody care that I realized the greatest thing ever?

Then don’t speak in absolutes if you have no evidence

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Originally posted by issendorf:
There isn’t an afterlife

Citation needed

I can’t have one because they are impossible to disprove…

Does nobody care that I realized the greatest thing ever?


Then don’t speak in absolutes if you have no evidence

And don’t forget that there are a shit-load of other things impossible to disprove, so he’s basically saying he also doesn’t believe he needs oxygen to survive.

 
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But your premises are just based on the assumption that time is infinite and the curvature of the universe is >1.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by issendorf:
Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Originally posted by issendorf:
There isn’t an afterlife

Citation needed

I can’t have one because they are impossible to disprove…

Does nobody care that I realized the greatest thing ever?


Then don’t speak in absolutes if you have no evidence


And don’t forget that there are a shit-load of other things impossible to disprove, so he’s basically saying he also doesn’t believe he needs oxygen to survive.

Not really. You can prove that you need oxygen to survive, but you can’t prove that there is an afterlife. In my mind, all are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.


Originally posted by DannyDaNinja:

But your premises are just based on the assumption that time is infinite and the curvature of the universe is >1.

The good news is, we aren’t far from being able to measure the curvature of the universe.
 
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Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Not really. You can prove that you need oxygen to survive,

That’s not what I said, I said that you can’t disprove that you can survive without oxygen.

but you can’t prove that there is an afterlife. In my mind, all are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Oh, so now you say that it’s because you can’t prove it.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Not really. You can prove that you need oxygen to survive,

That’s not what I said, I said that you can’t disprove that you can survive without oxygen.

but you can’t prove that there is an afterlife. In my mind, all are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Oh, so now you say that it’s because you can’t prove it.

I said that I had no citation, because you can’t disprove it. Obviously, I don’t believe because you can’t prove it. If I believed everything you can’t disprove, I’d have to believe every stupid story or religion made up in history. Now stop bugging me. This thread is for atheists, not theists. If I wanted to argue about religion, I would have posted in any of the countless pre-existing threads about it.

 
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Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Not really. You can prove that you need oxygen to survive,

That’s not what I said, I said that you can’t disprove that you can survive without oxygen.

but you can’t prove that there is an afterlife. In my mind, all are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Oh, so now you say that it’s because you can’t prove it.

I said that I had no citation, because you can’t disprove it. Obviously, I don’t believe because you can’t prove it. If I believed everything you can’t disprove, I’d have to believe every stupid story or religion made up in history. Now stop bugging me. This thread is for atheists, not theists. If I wanted to argue about religion, I would have posted in any of the countless pre-existing threads about it.

Woah, didn’t remember that discrimination based on religious beliefs was smiled upon ;D Also, this thread is for physicists. Can I please see the mathematics behind the curvature of the universe and its relation to immortality?

 
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Originally posted by Darkscanner:
dead.

I’m not going to have this argument, mainly because that is a philosophical question, that none of us know the answer to.

No, I’m pretty sure I’ve got a pretty good grasp on the idea.

Originally posted by Sleepallnight:

We were built to live forever, Jesus is prove, he came to show that humans actually made to live forever. But sin gave access to not love, if you live forever and you don’t love it would be a torture and the torture went on forever and ever. But if you love life, then you had God since God is Love, then you’ll live forever in love. That’s the best.

Yeah, I’ve thought over the idea. As religious as I am, the idea of heaven does not appeal to me. I’d rather relive my life on Earth, even just watching it like a movie, then live forever in heaven. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are so many problems inherent in the system. Maybe He has solved them, who knows but Him, am I right? But if a test run doesn’t exactly work out, well, then, I’ll stick with my own thing.

 
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Originally posted by 1132:

Yeah, I’ve thought over the idea. As religious as I am, the idea of heaven does not appeal to me. I’d rather relive my life on Earth, even just watching it like a movie, then live forever in heaven.

Sorry if you’ve answered this before, but what religion are you? Also, I kind of understand what you are saying about a certain idea of Heaven not appealing to you. I’ve heard Heaven described as a bejeweled city with streets paved with gold, but by my own experience I would prefer it to reflect my most cherished memories on earth—a place with lots of green, probably a beach, and loved ones around me. I know that doesn’t quite do it justice, but I’m sure you get the idea—jewels aren’t that important to me.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by 1132:

Yeah, I’ve thought over the idea. As religious as I am, the idea of heaven does not appeal to me. I’d rather relive my life on Earth, even just watching it like a movie, then live forever in heaven.

Sorry if you’ve answered this before, but what religion are you? Also, I kind of understand what you are saying about a certain idea of Heaven not appealing to you. I’ve heard Heaven described as a bejeweled city with streets paved with gold, but by my own experience I would prefer it to reflect my most cherished memories on earth—a place with lots of green, probably a beach, and loved ones around me. I know that doesn’t quite do it justice, but I’m sure you get the idea—jewels aren’t that important to me.

Catholic. Religion is supposed to be whatever you want to it be, and that’s nice and all for most people, but to me, it’d just be to false. That’s what I like about Earth. I’m mostly certainly people are real, whereas in Heaven- just not sure.
Of course, it’d probably reflect. He’s good like that.

 
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Can I please see the mathematics behind the curvature of the universe and its relation to immortality?

Oh, sorry. I just noticed that post. If the curvature isn’t greater than one, it will continue to expand, until no particle is touching another, which would sort of destroy the possibility of every component of your body spontaneously returning to their original state, location, and a livable environment.

 
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I have to agree with users stating there are a lot of assumptions being made here.
Atheists are unhappy? The multiverse theory disproves an afterlife? How is this good news?

Here’s some good news: “People cannot say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘Look, it’s over there!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is within you and all around you.” -Jesus

 
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Originally posted by Azolf:

“People cannot say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘Look, it’s over there!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is within you and all around you.” -Jesus

Isn’t that actually again saying: “Here it is!”

I’m telling you, that Jesus! Sneaky son of a virgin.

 
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Can’t say I quite agree EPR. I would say the quote is reinforcing the idea of the kingdom of god as a metaphor, as something non-locative, non-temporal. Mind if I ask the source on that quote Azolf?

 
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“If there isn’t an afterlife, what’s the point of living? Why shouldn’t I just kill myself now?”, which is actually a pretty sound argument for believing.

actually, your friend sounds like an idiot. what he said is the reversed of logic. if there IS an afterlife, why wait to get there? why duck if someone is shooting at you? why pray if the airplane you’re in is in freefall?

your theory is also not a great realisation at all. it is a stupid, baseless assumption and one of the worst jumps in logic ever.

also why is atheism depressing to you? i mean, i find not believing in Star Trek slightly depressing, but not believing in this omniscient evil boogyman that punished so many people so severely merely for breaking the most arbitrary, stupid rules is in no way depressing.

stop letting religious morons get to you. their fairy-tales can’t hurt you anymore than your Harry Potter book hurts them.

 
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Originally posted by Azolf:

I have to agree with users stating there are a lot of assumptions being made here.
Atheists are unhappy? The multiverse theory disproves an afterlife? How is this good news?

Here’s some good news: “People cannot say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘Look, it’s over there!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is within you and all around you.” -Jesus

Herp derp. Why does everybody think that my theory involves the multiverse? It’s a logic thing. If time is infinite, then everything ever will happen infinite times, and one of those things is you rematerializing, exactly as you were before.
 
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Azollf…if I have asked for God he He does not show…is it my fault as the asker?

 
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If I have asked for God and He does not show…is it my fault as the asker?

 
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Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

If I have asked for God and He does not show…is it my fault as the asker?

Based on personal experience, when I first started seeking, I couldn’t turn right or left without bumping into a testimony. Finding one of those goofy tracks on a park bench, hearing a street musician singing about Jesus, random people blessing my day through public demonstrations of faith, and even crazy strangers talking directly to me about it.

I know it sounds a little far fetched, like something out of a movie, but looking back on all the arrows I’ve encountered, it’s a wonder that I still experience as much doubt as as I do. All I can say is get out from behind your computer. Ask for a sign, be among people, and you’ll meet Jesus.

Book of Mark Chapter 9
The father of the demon possessed boy replied, “Since he was a little boy. The spirit often throws him into the fire or into water, trying to kill him. Have mercy on us and help us, if you can.”

Jesus answered, “You say, ‘If I can’ but I say anything is possible for one who believes.”

“The father instantly cried out, “I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief!”

When Jesus saw that the crowd of onlookers was growing, he rebuked the evil spirit. “You dumb and deaf spirit, I charge you to come out of him and never go into him again!”

Then the spirit screamed and threw the boy into another violent convulsion and left him. The boy appeared to be dead. A murmur ran through the crowd as people said, “He’s dead.” But Jesus took him by the hand and helped him to his feet, and he stood up."

(A factor in this story is that the disciples could not cast out this demon. Later asking why they could not, Jesus said that this particular spirit required prayer and fasting to be removed.)

 
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Originally posted by Azolf:
. All I can say is get out from behind your computer. Ask for a sign, be among people, and you’ll meet Jesus.

I met him one sunny, mild day….
we had a couple of beers at a sidewalk cafe…
talked about life…..and death,,,
He told me to keep up the good work….
then scooted off…
leaving me to pay the tab.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

I met him one sunny, mild day….
we had a couple of beers at a sidewalk cafe…
talked about life…..and death,,,
He told me to keep up the good work….
then scooted off…
leaving me to pay the tab.

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. -Jesus

Truly I tell you, such kindness you do unto to the least esteemed of my bothers and sisters, you do for Me. -Jesus

Next round is on me! -Azolf :-D

Originally posted by EPR89:
Originally posted by Azolf:

“People cannot say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘Look, it’s over there!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is within you and all around you.” -Jesus

Isn’t that actually again saying: “Here it is!”

I’m telling you, that Jesus! Sneaky son of a virgin.

“The day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.” -Paul the Apostle
Jesus had a tendency to be really wry, especially when talking to church leaders. You’d like him.

Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

Can’t say I quite agree EPR. I would say the quote is reinforcing the idea of the kingdom of god as a metaphor, as something non-locative, non-temporal. Mind if I ask the source on that quote Azolf?

Book of Luke Chapter 17.

 
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Originally posted by Azolf:

I know it sounds a little far fetched, like something out of a movie, but looking back on all the arrows I’ve encountered, it’s a wonder that I still experience as much doubt as as I do. All I can say is get out from behind your computer. Ask for a sign, be among people, and you’ll meet Jesus.

I have done that, seriously. I went to church, and by that I don’t mean I went to church once or twice….I reguarly went to church, I talked with the pastor, I immersed myself with Christian friends, I read the bible…and while it nice and the people were very caring…I felt no God, I recieved no sign. What more am I to do? This is the reason I am an atheist. Not because I hate God or religion. But because I tried and found nothing. So is the fault with me that I could not find Jesus? This is the question I have ask again and again when people tell me to just ‘look’ and ‘ask’ for Jesus and He will come.

 
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Thanks for the candor FWW, I don’t think you are damned, not for a minute.

At the heart of most religious institutions are a bunch of people accepting God on Human terms. There are a lot of conformists and followers there. Jesus said, “Follow me.” not “Follow the church.” I’ve given up on trying to be a Christian the Christian way, and decided to be a Christian the Gospel way.

I did finally break down and start going to a church. Maybe they need more black sheep and deep thinkers. A lot of the people who fit in at church are further away from finding God than most atheists. :-)

Good night all, and God Bless us all , everyone.