China and Democracy

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Can China survive much longer without a democratic government? If they continue to be able to support their own markets through global trade, then isn’t it proof that democracy may not be the most effective form of governance? I think democracy is fair but overrated.

 
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i think they will, a democratic govt. will help nothing

 
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How is democracy overrated? Plus, “supporting their own markets through global trade” indicates CAPITALISM, not democracy. They are two very different philosophies. In fact the former weakens the latter.

 
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If they continue to be able to support their own markets through global trade, then isn’t it proof that democracy may not be the most effective form of governance?

Democracy isn’t an economic system, it’s a political system. And no, that doesn’t prove anything – different governments work for different societies.

 
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Originally posted by paradoxymoron:

How is democracy overrated? Plus, “supporting their own markets through global trade” indicates CAPITALISM, not democracy. They are two very different philosophies. In fact the former weakens the latter.

Err… you’ve both just restated what I said. China is a capitalist country, but not a democracy. Is it possible to sustain that?

 
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China is a communist country, but are smart enough to know capitalism works.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

China is a communist country, but are smart enough to know capitalism works.

It’s not the 60s any more.

 
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China is a communist country, but are smart enough to know capitalism works.

lol. and the USA is a democratic country, they’re just dumb enough to believe that despotism works.

i’m just pointing out the oxyretard.

If they continue to be able to support their own markets through global trade, then isn’t it proof that democracy may not be the most effective form of governance?

one despotic government (even such a big one) being succesful against so awfully many that failed when a bunch of social democracies (Sweden and Germany atm) are also doing fine is not really indicative of anything.

 
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Originally posted by AEBEATIAxSOOKIES:

Can China survive much longer without a democratic government? If they continue to be able to support their own markets through global trade, then isn’t it proof that democracy may not be the most effective form of governance? I think democracy is fair but overrated.

1. There is certainly going to come a breaking point in the future, when china will probably become more democratic. The Opposition in China against the government is becoming gradually stronger, but so far there has not been a event that effected the whole society which could spark a revolution.

2. I have noted that many people confuse the great economic and political power China wields with a successful economy. While china ranks 2nd in GDP total it is only 90+ in GDP per capita. Even Jamaica and Kazakhstan can do better than that. The fact that its becoming a major production place(with many companies relocating production from the USA to China) does not help very much. The workers are paid next to nothing and the working conditions are poor. The companies that profit are Global players with their home seats outside of china. In china only a small group of elites profit at the cost of society as a whole.
China has been using its poor standard of living as an economical and political tool. Actually artificially keeping down the standard of living to increase their political and economical power.
While many countries as a whole have been living above their means china has been living under its means. Its been acquiring lots of capital this way but the country itself is not in that good of a shape(there are regional exceptions but as a whole they are lacking).

 
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Democracy is overrated, in most circumstances. Democracy is accepted, however, because it’s one of the few political systems that allow all individuals to have some sort of influence in the overall government, no matter how small, which usually results in more respect for individual and human rights.

Totalitarian systems are more efficient, faster, have less overhead, etc. A benevolent, highly intelligent, and unselfish dictator is probably the best form of leadership you could ever ask for. You’re just never going to get that from a person who seized power (and you’d have to be extremely lucky to get it with a monarchy system).

 
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A benevolent, highly intelligent, and unselfish dictator is probably the best form of leadership you could ever ask for. You’re just never going to get that from a person who seized power (and you’d have to be extremely lucky to get it with a monarchy system).

Exactly – you’d never get a good dictator, therefore, in practice, it’s a terrible system.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
A benevolent, highly intelligent, and unselfish dictator is probably the best form of leadership you could ever ask for. You’re just never going to get that from a person who seized power (and you’d have to be extremely lucky to get it with a monarchy system).

Exactly – you’d never get a good dictator, therefore, in practice, it’s a terrible system.

Not entirely true. It’s a terrible system for human rights. It’s hit and miss when it comes to national leadership and development, but there are plenty of dictatorships that have turned 3rd world countries into 1st world power houses.

 
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there are plenty of dictatorships that have turned 3rd world countries into 1st world power houses.

or, was it the other way around?

a country that goes from a 3rd world state, to a first world powerhouse is going through a revolution. revolutions can be hijacked. the hijacker gets falsely credited for the rise in prosperity, because the victor writes history.

and i don’t think any of that efficiency argument is actually true. mandatory compliance never addresses objections, therefor the desire to resist will never stop. the stronger the consensus, the better the co-operation.

look at North and South Korea: since they seperated, North Korea is a dictatorship, and the only thing that grows is poverty, and famine; while South Korea is a democracy, and they’ve been one of the fastest growing economies for decades.

 
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Originally posted by wolfinthesheep:

Democracy is overrated, in most circumstances. Democracy is accepted, however, because it’s one of the few political systems that allow all individuals to have some sort of influence in the overall government, no matter how small, which usually results in more respect for individual and human rights.

Totalitarian systems are more efficient, faster, have less overhead, etc. A benevolent, highly intelligent, and unselfish dictator is probably the best form of leadership you could ever ask for. You’re just never going to get that from a person who seized power (and you’d have to be extremely lucky to get it with a monarchy system).

Sorry but in dictatorships the overhead is commonly far bigger. The government has to buy off a significant amount of people to keep from being overthrown. With out the backing of the military and security forces which are much bigger in such countries the government can not keep control.
Efficiency is also often lacking because key positions are awarded on much more often family/political merit than on ability.

 
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Hi, I write to you from the small city of Liuyang in Hunan province (China).
About politic system:
- I think the democracy in western countries is just a patetic chimera, an illusion. So don’t talk about democracy because it’s not real.
- On other hand, the Chinese goverment system is not despotic as i read. Is true that is a totaitarian goverment (just one party) but hey, more than 40million people are inside the party and all they can vote. So you could call it even technocracy because just the people who demonstrates capabilities and have studies can join the party.
About the economical system, China is capitalist.

People blames a lot abuot China but this is not North-Korea! the live here is nice, even on the countryside ;-)

 
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I think the democracy in western countries is just a patetic chimera, an illusion.

It’s not an illusion. They just aren’t full democracies.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

China is a communist country, but are smart enough to know capitalism works.

China is a dictatorship with an economic system half comunist half capitalistic.

EDIT: They should be thrown out of UN just for what they are doing in Tibet.

 
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Originally posted by onlineidiot1994:
Originally posted by jhco50:

China is a communist country, but are smart enough to know capitalism works.

It’s not the 60s any more.

Quite right. China maybe ‘communist’ by name, but not by nature.

I think China will move closer to a type of democracy…(well they do have ‘elections’ for local officals)…but China will do it their way and it won’t look like anything like how the West does it. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing, at the moment China’s system appears to be working.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

China is a communist country, but are smart enough to know capitalism works.

You know, this is an interesting point.
Much like the US, the Chinese ruling class (the Party elite, known as “Princes” in China) DO understand how capitalism is beneficial.
Beneficial to the elite.

Just like the US, China’s move to a more “open” or “free” market economic model has benefited a small minority of the population that was in the position to influence policy in order to fill their own coffers.
Due to lopsided coverage, a lot of people don’t realize that the main component of the protests leading up to Tiananmen Square were economic. Seeing exactly what the Party was doing for its own leadership at the expense of the rest of the population, there was an outcry from students, intellectuals, and a great deal of “middle class” Chinese. While democracy was part of the protests, what fueled them was the redistribution of the nation’s new wealth to the very highest echelons of the Party and their friends and families.

This is the result of laissez faire capitalism; the concentration of wealth in the hands of a very small minority at the expense of all of the rest of us.

Yeah. Capitalism works really well.

 
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It seems that China, or at least Chinese workers, are experiencing similar conditions to those of American workers in the late 19th-early 20th century (exploitation, artificially low wages, 12-hour workdays, company housing/towns etc). Even in America, a relatively powerful and stable republic at the time, there were protests, discontent, strikes, riots, and the government often cracked down on those. Eventually however, Progressives gained enough support to curtail exploitation and end harmful monopolies among other now illegal practices.

However, one important factor is that while people were still allowed to assemble under law and vote in the US, Chinese don’t have the same rights and the government is able to crackdown more efficiently on protestors or labor unions. Eventually, discontent will grow and if China doesn’t give some power to its own people or help improve conditions by preventing exploitation and unfair business practices, rebellions and possibly a revolution will happen in China and those can go either way in improving or harming the situation. Democracies (I am including republics) give the people representation to enact change, while most other forms of government doesn’t have that benefit of feedback from the people.
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others ever tried.” -Winston Churchill