All non jewish christian religions: Are their followers going to Hell? page 5

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Jesus was sent by God to be like a proxy, so I’d assume he’s okay.

 
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Originally posted by Indy111:

Jesus was sent by God to be like a proxy, so I’d assume he’s okay.

But, who said that besides Jesus? Sounds more like identity theft, to me.
 
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@JohnnyBeGood
But atheism is also an opinion why do you choose that stance? Thanks for your critical replies btw.

@Indy111
Ah, I’ve been trying to explain that opinion in multiple long posts but you did it in just 10 words.

@Darkscanner
Examine His teachings are they lovely? Are they necessary for a human friendly society? I think so.

 
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Sleep
1. I’d like you to formulate your personal view on your religion in one post (meaning, few sentences).
2. Then tell me, what of the mentioned isn’t in what you consider to be Judaism (meaning, what you consider to be the main difference between those two).
Just for fun, you know. :D

 
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Somebody,
Judaism is a precursor religion to Christianity, and Islam shares similar ideologies, angels/prophets, and ideas.
Pretty much for Jews their messiah has not come(there is only god), and for Christians he has. In Islam, their prophet is Muhammad, but he is not the son of a god like Jesus.

 
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@Somebody613,
I prefer explaining in respect of a topic, and I’m still learning and still find myself ignorant and mistaken. Basically I believe that Jesus is God, though Judaism believe that Jesus is not God. Both believe in God of Israel, but Judaism didn’t believe God as the sender of Jesus. So in that sense you could say that we’re not worshipping the same God.
I believe that God revealed himself to life, to humans, through Jesus and in the future God will perform his plan, that’s to make a new world where people are happy, and people would live forever. How in detail I don’t know, but I don’t think such thing is impossible.

Do you want to give your own view about your belief and our differences?

 
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Sleep
My point (which I failed to clarify) was about your constant reference of “loveliness” and so on.
So I wanted to see how YOU think your belief is more “lovely” than mine.
(Which I don’t seem to see at all. :D)
As of your post, we actually SHOULD refer to the same G-d, as in Creator of the world, etc.
There can be differences in interpretation, but the “subject” is the same.
(This is what makes all, especially between the Abrahamic religions, “holy wars” STUPID and MEANINGLESS…)
And yes, the future “utopia” is the JEWISH idea, which was easily adopted by others for obvious reasons – we all want the tomorrow to be better than the yesterday. :D
As of key differences, apart from the view on G-d (and other related characters :DDD), I still see one thing (which you failed to clarify when we talked before, or I missed it, sorry) – what exactly are you OBLIGATED to DO, as a Christian?
I do mean actual ACTIONS, not just ideology.
Cause (until proven otherwise by you, or someone else :D) I’m under a very strong impression, that you have close to no actual real-life obligations, apart from BELIEVING, which is already NOT an action (and is problematic, cause you can’t force someone, or even yourself, to believe, if you don’t – the reason why Inquisition was a bunch of IDIOTS, sorry :DDD).

 
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@somebody613
Loveliness is my believe that in order to keep on experiencing interactions, the whole universe need to work together harmoniously. If some elements didn’t follow that discipline it would endanger the others, it might bring everything into complete stop.
Lovely is when you became part or contribute to the sustainability of interactions, while not lovely is the opposite.
Your believe is not understood well by me, but since I believe that Jesus is God and he hold the principals for everything lovely, not following Jesus = not lovely. Yes it looks bad for Christians, but in the bible it said to seek knowledge and seek understanding, don’t use sword or you’ll die by the sword. Therefore we ought to respect people and be peaceful, not ignore people and abuse them.
But we can’t deny that it took a total synchronization in order to be lovely, that’s why we’re to propagate the news of Jesus to everybody, so that people could tune in and be forever in love.
It’s not a Jewish idea, it’s God’s idea. (And we must thank the Jews for maintaining the wisdom until it could reach us).
We’re obligated to love God (that’s to learn and study about God, to work his teachings, appreciate reality, and anticipate so that we could keep on interacting with reality to the max.) and unseparably to love one another as we love ourselves (we love ourselves that’s why we keep ourselves alive, and we pursue happiness, to love another is making others a part of our interaction to keep on experiencing interactions forever). We are not to neglect another as we won’t neglect ourselves, we are to harmonize with others in respect to God, not to oppress them, forever. That’s why I took highly of official rules and regulations that are inclusive.

what exactly are you OBLIGATED to DO, as a Christian?
I do mean actual ACTIONS, not just ideology.

Try your best to please Jesus. Since Jesus is a human as well, you can feel him in your mind and heart just like you could feel other people, would you be happy if treated like this, would Jesus like it if I treat people like this? That’s how God connect with humans, we could feel HIM as one of us now. That’s why GOD planned everything so delicately only to achieve this relationship with humans. John 3:16, For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. This kind of relationship was severed in the past, but now through Jesus it’s back on.
So obviously if we kill, deceive, hurt, abuse, disrespect, neglect, and many many more evil deeds we would not be considered lovely by Jesus. But if we refresh others, learn, study, help, work smart and hard, forgive, and many more good deeds we would be considered as lovely by Jesus, a fellow human being. Jesus’ laws are plentiful more than thousands, more than millions, as the world change so will his laws, but love is love and it will remain forever. Love is the beginning and the end, without love would you ask the question “what interactions are available next?” forever? Therefore love is the base of existence, because existence is the answer to the question “what interactions are available next”.

- Evil could also made you ask what interactions available next, but in love you ask it so that you could keep on experiencing interactions forever, while an evil person ask it regardless of eternity. And evil only exist because love exist, not the other way around. Eternity came first then the non-eternal can took place.
Love is the base of eternal existence, love made you ask “what interactions are available next that would lead to interactions after interactions forever”. Anyway this part is not in the bible its just my way of understanding it.

 
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Sleep
1. I so wish, that all those “supposedly Christian” men roaming the streets, would actually do like you say.
(As in, strive for love and peace, not hate and war…)
It would help us all to live a better life.
Unfortunately, most of them don’t…
2. One tiny problem with “love”, is that you also need “discipline”.
Love without restrictions is harmful and easily turns into hate…
Just my five cents, you know… :D

 
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@somebody613
Thank you :)

 
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Back on the topic of whether or not Jesus claimed to be God:Jesus clearly claimed to be the Messiah and Son of God:

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that he is the Messiah (Jn 4:25-26). Jesus affirmed Peter’s statement that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mt 16:15-17, see also Mk 8:29-30, Lk 9:20-21). Jesus told the high priest that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mk 14:61-62, Mt 26:63-64, Lk 22:70).

The Jews understood that this meant Jesus was equating himself with God: “he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God” (Jn 5:17-18).

Other places where Jesus equated himself with God:

Jesus told the Jews, “I and the Father are one.” (Jn 10:24-38). Jesus told the disciples, “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.” (Jn 13:13). Jesus forgave sins, which only God had the authority to do (Mk 2:5-11, Lk 5:20-24). Jesus said that he had seen Abraham and that he is eternal: “‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’” (Jn 8:57-58). Jesus said that he had seen God, which no one else could do (Jn 6:46)

( taken from http://www.rationalchristianity.net/jesus_claim.html)

It is clear that Jesus claimed He is in fact God
As far as how sure we are about the Gospels and NT being reliable
you may find the following helpful and enlightening:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/15/is-new-testament-reliable

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t007.html

 
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Originally posted by jjuanksta:

It is clear that Jesus claimed He is in fact God
As far as how sure we are about the Gospels and NT being reliable
you may find the following helpful and enlightening:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/15/is-new-testament-reliable

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t007.html

I find your links neither Helpful nor Enlightening for anyone who desires Truth.
Perhaps you should try this:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by jjuanksta:

It is clear that Jesus claimed He is in fact God
As far as how sure we are about the Gospels and NT being reliable
you may find the following helpful and enlightening:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/15/is-new-testament-reliable

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t007.html

I find your links neither Helpful nor Enlightening for anyone who desires Truth.
Perhaps you should try this:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

If you truly desire the truth, maybe you should not let you biases keep you from reading my links. I know you did not read it all because several of the issues from your link are refuted in the answers in genesis link. Not to mention that much of your link’s claims are unfounded and unsupported speculation, where as my link (answersingenesis) offer a wealth of contextual and archeological evidence that suggests that the Bible we have to day is at least 99.5% the same as the way it was originally written.
*note it really hits the topic of biblical accuracy towards the middle of the page.

 
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(To the OP,)
I’ve been thinking about the same thing. It’s very complicated… If someone of a particular religion understands there is a God, or gods, and worships them, is that evil? To drastically shorten and… simplify my collection of thoughts, I think that if a person does their best to be a “good person” in life, that can’t mean they are simply going to Hell, considering the many unique circumstances. (Yes, I’ve heard the sermons. I don’t mean it that way exactally, but this is the closest way I can word it right now.) I suppose it’s a matter of interpretation…

 
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Originally posted by WwarMmachine:

(To the OP,)
I’ve been thinking about the same thing. It’s very complicated… If someone of a particular religion understands there is a God, or gods, and worships them, is that evil? To drastically shorten and… simplify my collection of thoughts, I think that if a person does their best to be a “good person” in life, that can’t mean they are simply going to Hell, considering the many unique circumstances. (Yes, I’ve heard the sermons. I don’t mean it that way exactally, but this is the closest way I can word it right now.) I suppose it’s a matter of interpretation…

What are you talking about? I thought we established that Jesus was a false idle, thus making hell a false belief.
 
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@Sleep
Hi, I just accidentally came across this
I think it’ll give you some more insights on our discussion. :D

 
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Originally posted by jjuanksta:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by jjuanksta:

It is clear that Jesus claimed He is in fact God
As far as how sure we are about the Gospels and NT being reliable
you may find the following helpful and enlightening:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/15/is-new-testament-reliable

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t007.html

I find your links neither Helpful nor Enlightening for anyone who desires Truth.
Perhaps you should try this:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

If you truly desire the truth, maybe you should not let you biases keep you from reading my links. I know you did not read it all because several of the issues from your link are refuted in the answers in genesis link. Not to mention that much of your link’s claims are unfounded and unsupported speculation, where as my link (answersingenesis) offer a wealth of contextual and archeological evidence that suggests that the Bible we have to day is at least 99.5% the same as the way it was originally written.
*note it really hits the topic of biblical accuracy towards the middle of the page.

YadaYada. As it is everyone interested is free to compare the links, i think the Quality difference speaks for itself. The fact that your sources do exactly what mine criticize in detail as non-scientific behavior(refutation my ass), should be the best proof, to show that your claiming stuff based on wishful thinking.

 
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If my religion (Christian; United Methodist) turns out to be the correct one, then yes, according to the Bible, their followers are going to hell.

 
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Originally posted by Darkscanner:

Quiet, atheists, this question obviously isn’t directed at you.

One of the ten commandments is ‘Do not worship false idles’. Something I recently noticed is, wouldn’t Jesus qualify as a false idle? I mean, he was a great guy, but he never said he was god or anything, just a run of the mil prophet. Yet I hear Christians talking about him as if he was god, all the time. Doesn’t that make them scheduled for a one way trip to Hell?

they will go HERE

 
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Originally posted by TheKnifeGrinder:
Originally posted by Darkscanner:

Quiet, atheists, this question obviously isn’t directed at you.

One of the ten commandments is ‘Do not worship false idles’. Something I recently noticed is, wouldn’t Jesus qualify as a false idle? I mean, he was a great guy, but he never said he was god or anything, just a run of the mil prophet. Yet I hear Christians talking about him as if he was god, all the time. Doesn’t that make them scheduled for a one way trip to Hell?

they will go HERE

I imagine that would become unpleasant after a few times.
 
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Originally posted by Darkscanner:
Originally posted by TheKnifeGrinder:
Originally posted by Darkscanner:

Quiet, atheists, this question obviously isn’t directed at you.

One of the ten commandments is ‘Do not worship false idles’. Something I recently noticed is, wouldn’t Jesus qualify as a false idle? I mean, he was a great guy, but he never said he was god or anything, just a run of the mil prophet. Yet I hear Christians talking about him as if he was god, all the time. Doesn’t that make them scheduled for a one way trip to Hell?

they will go HERE

I imagine that would become unpleasant after a few times.

Not with the right deejay… lol

 
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Because of limited time, I’ll just respond to a few posts that stood out to me for now and check on them later.

From what I can tell (and my thoughts do spread and go a bit deeper), when God mentioned several times, “No other gods before Me”, the other gods are Him, and aren’t… People may find that the world must have been created by a god or gods, and worship them. But God wants them to know the real Him, who He is and better explained by His Book than by His trees. When a person worships Allah, they worship God by a different name, and a different book. He wants them to use HIS Book and call Him by a name He suggested. This is the best way I can word this at the moment.

Originally posted by TheAwsomeOpossum:

Darkscanner, that’s what the Spirit is used for. Personal experiences tend to be some of the strongest evidence.

Personal experiences is a very interesting topic to go into, relating to things people have claimed to see, hear, or “feel”.

Originally posted by Darkscanner:

Well, the bible actually refers to Hell as a physical place. It’s a lake of fire, which Lucifer and his followers are imprisoned in. The whole ‘Hell not necessarily being a firey lake’ thing is a very new concept.

I imagine Hell as a place devoid of God, possibly a physically dark pit. These people decided to be without God, so He threw them into a place totally without His touch, in which everyone would suffer intense loneliness similer to the emotional and mental suffering described. Of course I’m just theorizing from what’s in the Bible. And of whatever reasons God sends people to Hell, whatever that is exactly, I think there are many special situations, or grey areas He has to consider as a just God and Judge. (A big discussion for another day, I suppose…)

Originally posted by somebody613:Abraham was yet another “upgrade” – his grandson’s, Jacob’s, WHOLE FAMILY was singled out to become the G-d’s NATION (you know the name, right?).

Wait a minute, I think that makes the Jacobsons a holy family! But seriously, I am curious why you use G-d instead of God (not sure if I skimmed over it in a previous post).


Because of limited time and a somewhat busy day tomorrow, I will not respond to other posts at this time.

 
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Jesus is God period.

 
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Originally posted by lolaann:

Jesus is God period.

Thought Jesus was the son of God?

 
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Originally posted by dd790:
Originally posted by lolaann:

Jesus is God period.

Thought Jesus was the son of God?

Thought Jesus was just a random guy roaming the Jerusalem area at that time giving speeches and helping people out.