I never said one way or the other. Could be the combination of the two for all I know. It doesn’t matter because it isn’t my place to tell a state what they can and cannot teach as long as they present facts instead of an agenda. I do agree, the education system should not lie or present false facts. What you don’t seem to realize is that your science is theory to a point. I do think we develop as we go, but that is not an explanation for all of our history. I don’t think I came from a monkey. I don’t think mankind originated in Africa. So much of what scientists take for granted changes when they learn more. they will get a bit of information and publish it as if it is fact, then a few years later say oops, we were incorrect about that. Science is a learning process and there is always something that comes up that throws all of their facts in the air. Don’t get me wrong, I like science and I enjoy reading their theories and being able to think about the different subjects that interest me.

> OMG! You have got to be kidding! I am not always on the opposing side Dark. Might be, but then you post this: > And if the did, what difference would that make? You keep forgetting we are a free country, free to believe what we want. Free to teach children _lies_ and pretty much destroy their future? What kind of a world do we live in? This is not a “I believe we should teach children lies so that the human race can wither and suffer” versus “I believe we should have a proper country for all”, because making this issue out to be an actual question is ridiculous at all. Children should be taught the basic requirements and then choose a route towards whatever they like most (usually in order to get a job). You’re free to _choose_ creationism, not free to teach it to kids. Can we also teach them that 1 + 1 = 3 and “wi zhud tolk liek dis”?

> what they can and cannot teach as long as they present facts instead of an agenda. Please explain to me how teaching the so-called “intelligent design” is not an agenda since it has no scientific basis to back it up with. > What you don’t seem to realize is that your science is theory to a point. You are confusing “scientific theory” and "theory"—very different. Evolution has been proved AGAIN and AGAIN… and AGAIN. And not once has there been any scientific test that has been against evolution. > they will get a bit of information and publish it as if it is fact, then a few years later say oops, we were incorrect about that. \>Implying the capability of correcting oneself is not respectful. Religion many times can’t correct itself and is in denial. “Slavery is ok”… “How dare you disagree with slavery, it’s in the Bible”… \*slavery abolished\* “What, we weren’t against slavery, those were just the extremists.” THE SAME thing will happen for homosexuals. Initially they were executed, now in the modern world we are in the later stages. The same for women, who are now accepted in society. The same for blacks—and hell, even left-handed people.

> *Originally posted by **[Darkruler2005](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394690):*** > > OMG! You have got to be kidding! I am not always on the opposing side Dark. > > Might be, but then you post this: > > > And if the did, what difference would that make? You keep forgetting we are a free country, free to believe what we want. > > Free to teach children _lies_ and pretty much destroy their future? What kind of a world do we live in? This is not a “I believe we should teach children lies so that the human race can wither and suffer” versus “I believe we should have a proper country for all”, because making this issue out to be an actual question is ridiculous at all. Children should be taught the basic requirements and then choose a route towards whatever they like most (usually in order to get a job). You’re free to _choose_ creationism, not free to teach it to kids. Can we also teach them that 1 + 1 = 3 and “wi zhud tolk liek dis”? Oh lighten up and enjoy the lightheartedness. I will be honest, I don’t like the melding of religion and school. That is why we have Sunday School. I vote against allowing the teaching of the Bible in school as I just don’t think it belongs there. so there you have it. I am not confusing evolutionary theory and just plain old theory, they are both the same. What happens when scientists say this is how we developed throughout the ages and all of a sudden they find a skull that is unlike anything they have found before? It shoots their theory down and they have to rearrange it. Scientists are not infallible, they are humans who search for clues and then developed a story to fill in between the facts. Mankind isn’t as smart as it thinks it is. You know, there are a great many of people who believe in religion. Not everyone thinks science is the answer to everything. This is just the way people are. So if you decide we must teach children one theory and it is wrong, you have shortchanged those children.

> Oh lighten up and enjoy the lightheartedness.> lightheartedness Oh, good point: the lightheartedness of miseducation. Your statement truly is show-worthy of current American conservatism. > What happens when scientists say this is how we developed throughout the ages and all of a sudden they find a skull that is unlike anything they have found before?Progress is what happens. New material is taught. That same argument of yours can be used for technology. “Let’s not have these smartphones because, well, in five years there’ll be something new.”> Scientists are not infallibleSo instead we should rely on a book that teaches slavery, mysogyny, massacre, incest… Ok, good point you make there, mate.> So if you decide we must teach children one theory and it is wrongNo academic scientific research has showed evolution to be incorrect. (I bet you’ll ignore this point.)

> *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394696):*** > > what they can and cannot teach as long as they present facts instead of an agenda. > > Please explain to me how teaching the so-called “intelligent design” is not an agenda since it has no scientific basis to back it up with. > > > What you don’t seem to realize is that your science is theory to a point. > > You are confusing “scientific theory” and "theory"—very different. Evolution has been proved AGAIN and AGAIN… and AGAIN. And not once has there been any scientific test that has been against evolution. > > > they will get a bit of information and publish it as if it is fact, then a few years later say oops, we were incorrect about that. > > \>Implying the capability of correcting oneself is not respectful. > Religion many times can’t correct itself and is in denial. “Slavery is ok”… “How dare you disagree with slavery, it’s in the Bible”… **slavery abolished** “What, we weren’t against slavery, those were just the extremists.” > > THE SAME thing will happen for homosexuals. Initially they were executed, now in the modern world we are in the later stages. The same for women, who are now accepted in society. The same for blacks—and hell, even left-handed people. To you, if you are not a religious person, there are no facts in support of religion, but to someone who is a believer there are mounds of facts. Now I am the type of person that has to have facts. I do not go along blindly. Even I can admit to some religious facts that I have been introduced to. things that have no meaning without a religious answer. There is nothing disrespectful about having the ability to admit you are wrong or correcting ones self. That is how a person learns. You are kind of losing me here. Who siad slavery was in the Bible? I will have to see this. You do know that the founding fathers wanted to put a reference into the Constitution to abolish slavery. I’m not sure why they didn’t. I don’t know what you and Karma’s hangup on gays is. You two bring it up in every thread and contrary to what you two think, people don’t want to discuss gays constantly. You really need to get a handle on that, it is starting to sound a little odd. Women were always a part of society. Blacks were also a part of society. I’m not sure about left handed people…LOL. BTW, Obama is left handed.

> *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394783):***Because homophobics like you have beaten my mother up, mocked her, punched her, or at least discriminated against her. You are despicable. Fuck you. Honestly. I am not fucking exaggerating. Fuck you, mate. My mother should be allowed to live in HAPPINESS, and you not allowing her to do so make me really angry. Please stop discriminating against my mother and other LGBT. They have done nothing against you; yet you are. > > I’m going to stop there because you enrage me. But seriously, fuck you for hating my mother. Fuck you. Oh wait, it was your _mother_ who was gay? Oh, sorry man, our bad, total mistake there, just-just forget what we said, she’s got amnastity now, ‘cause that’s just hot. Alright, hopefull _someone_ gets my point

I wish I could see the video, but I am on dial-up and can’t. I would love to have a faster internet, but I have other things I need more. I am getting a new computer though. Who said I was a religious zealot? I don’t even go to a church. Stop reading into things hoping for a hit on something. I will read your links though. Other verses to help with? No, not really. Maybe later. Sounds like you and my wife could have a really exciting conversation as she is the religious one and she does know her Bible. Who is her? I have no idea who you are talking about? Your mother? Since you live in another country, what the hell do our opinions over here have to do with your mother in anyway? I don’t know your mother and don’t hate her, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept her sexuality. I think maybe you should stop here because you seem to be a bit over the edge, especially since my country has nothing to do with yours. If you are having a problem with the government of your country, take it up with them and leave our country alone. You are starting to sound really strange.

> What happens when scientists say this is how we developed throughout the ages and all of a sudden they find a skull that is unlike anything they have found before? It shoots their theory down and they have to rearrange it. If we don’t teach anything out of fear we might some day think it’s wrong then we don’t progress at all. Teaching the current facts might even help us correct mistakes faster. > So if you decide we must teach children one theory and it is wrong, you have shortchanged those children. I’m not entirely getting your point. Currrently, religion is based upon no significant evidence, and scientific theories are. The amount of “followers” is irrelevant to the point. We should teach facts, not myths.

> *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394829):*** > Why? Because of your MORALITY. Derived from… RELIGION? Because, again, you do not follow the First Amendment of your own constitution Derived from himself. jhco never said he was a Christian. This is his own thing.

> *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394813):*** > > Please tell me where Jesus Christ promoted homophobia. Please tell me why, albeit being CHRISTian, you do not follow the word of Jesus. First of all, you are not really reading my posts, just skimming and inserting what you want to be in them. I am not a religious zealot. I am not a Bible Thumper and have never claimed to be one, so cool your heals on that. You can quote anything you want from the Bible that makes you feel good, I don’t care. The links you give me are anti-religion sights, except for Wikipedia. I can’t tell you everything in the Bible because I am not an expert on the Bible, nor am I a semi-expert on that book. Again, what you do in your country is up to you and if you are having a problem with your fellow citizens, take it up with them.

> *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394801):*** > > EDIT: and seriously, tenco1, you openly making fun of my mother on an internet forum? What are you, 12? Yeah, I thought this would happen… I was basically parrodying the “gay men should burn in a fire, gay women are hot as a fire,” attitude that’s strangely prevalent in some of society.

> *Originally posted by **[Darkruler2005](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394826):*** > > What happens when scientists say this is how we developed throughout the ages and all of a sudden they find a skull that is unlike anything they have found before? It shoots their theory down and they have to rearrange it. > > If we don’t teach anything out of fear we might some day think it’s wrong then we don’t progress at all. Teaching the current facts might even help us correct mistakes faster. > > > So if you decide we must teach children one theory and it is wrong, you have shortchanged those children. > > I’m not entirely getting your point. Currrently, religion is based upon no significant evidence, and scientific theories are. The amount of “followers” is irrelevant to the point. We should teach facts, not myths. If we teach anything scientific, I feel we should advise the students it is a theory if it is one. We shouldn’t have to teach out of fear. We know something that at the present time we think may be true, teach it like that. I like science, I love to hear the theories because I know there has to be something behind those theories to allow the development of the theory in itself. I enjoyed science when I was in school. The students learning these theories may want to go into an area of science to study a particular theory. I’m just saying, don’t confuse theory with fact. I don’t know if I can explain what I’m trying to say. We humans tend to think we are smarter than we are. We try to explain our past with the clues we find. The problem is many of those clues are non-existent and some of them point one way when they really go another. Yes, there are some indications of truth. You see, I like facts. because I like facts, I look for them when I want to know something. For instance, My area of the country have these mounds that look odd, but are all over a particular area. I never new what they were. they looked similar to this, ^. While reading a book on Gems and Rocks, I found them and what they were, coral reefs from the crustacean period of our past. That is a fact I can live with. from there, some of you fellas expanded to give me more facts and I was a happy camper. I said all of that to say this. We find artifacts from the past that indicate some of the things the Bible says are in fact true. Archeological digs have dug up temples and artifacts that are mentioned in the Bible. Tunnels that have been mentioned have been found. There is a lot of facts to suggest that at least some of the Bible is truth.

> *Originally posted by **[tenco1](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394847):*** > > *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394801):*** > > > > EDIT: and seriously, tenco1, you openly making fun of my mother on an internet forum? What are you, 12? > > Yeah, I thought this would happen… > > I was basically parrodying the “gay men should burn in a fire, gay women are hot as a fire,” attitude that’s strangely prevalent in some of society. Ouch! He really needs a bit of Ritalin.

> I’m just saying, don’t confuse theory with fact. Theory is fact. Maybe you haven’t been able to closely follow your science classes after all? > We find artifacts from the past that indicate some of the things the Bible says are in fact true. Archeological digs have dug up temples and artifacts that are mentioned in the Bible. Tunnels that have been mentioned have been found. There is a lot of facts to suggest that at least some of the Bible is truth. They are not true because the Bible said so. They are true because science objectively observed such issues and found them to be correct. Public schools should teach facts, and science is used to get to them. I’m not even sure if you should be allowed to send your kid to some whacko private school that does nothing but teach you how to play with cars (as an example). Every kid should know the basics, otherwise there’s a chance we’ll have a worthless workforce in the future, incapable of supporting society.

Theory isn’t fact. It is taking of some factual circumstances and filling in the blanks to make it plausible. Evolution of man, for instance, has changed several times in the last few years as scientists and archeologist find more skeletons that don’t fit into the theory. As our scientific community finds more and more and adjust their theories, we learn more about our past. It is a system that is fallible, but it is the only one we have at the moment. I don’t disagree with science, I just use logic to understand they are not always completely correct and we as a human species have only skimmed the surface of our world. I am not arguing science should be taught in school, just the opposite. Not only should the basics of science be taught, but it should be as important as math, English, and the other main subjects. As far as my science classes go, I haven’t been in a science class since the 60s. I am sure I forgotten just a bit of it. :)

> *Originally posted by **[jhco50](/forums/9/topics/289927?page=27#posts-6394930):*** > > Theory isn’t fact. They kinda are. > It is taking of some factual circumstances and filling in the blanks to make it plausible. No it… Really isn’t. > Evolution of man, for instance, has changed several times in the last few years as scientists and archeologist find more skeletons that don’t fit into the theory. That’s because that’s what science does, rsearch and draw logical conclusions from the evidence present. > I am not arguing science should be taught in school, just the opposite. Not only should the basics of science be taught, but it should be as important as math, English, and the other main subjects. As far as my science classes go, I haven’t been in a science class since the 60s. I am sure I forgotten just a bit of it. :) But people should still teach children something almost entirely rooted in religion as a fact in the education system?

> Theory isn’t fact. Again, you are confusing "theory"—since you are defining it as hypothesis—and “scientific theory”. [http://wilstar.com/theories.htm](http://wilstar.com/theories.htm) [http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm](http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm) [http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record\_id=6024&page=2](http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6024&page=2) From the last source: > **Hypothesis** : A **tentative** statement about the natural world leading to deductions that can be tested. If the deductions are verified, it becomes more probable that the hypothesis is correct. If the deductions are incorrect, the original hypothesis can be abandoned or modified. Hypotheses can be used to build more complex inferences and explanations. > **Theory** : In science, a **well-substantiated explanation** of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses. So in science, theories ARE facts. What are not facts are hypotheses.

> Theory isn’t fact. There is nothing coming closer to a fact than a theory. You can’t better explain our current understanding of the world than with science. You’re right in that we don’t know everything in science, but you’re wrong in implying there are ways to know better at the same point in time. Any way, you agree science should be taught, I just hope you agree schools shouldn’t have the choice to teach myths (as if they were facts).