U.S. Presidential Election page 41 (locked)

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Originally posted by jhco50:

If, and that is a big if, Obama’s policies were going to work there should have been some sign the first two years.

You do know that miracles don’t happen all that often, right?

Yet here we are, four years later, and nothing.

Uh, no, it’s definitely something, even most people on the right agree that things have changed.

It is time for Obama to go. His policies didn’t work and now we want some new ideas.

Because there’s absolutely no way Romney could do a worse job, right?

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:
Maybe Obama should have shaved his head and offered them some government freebe.

Perhaps a government-sponsored Jew Hunt every now and then?

Perhaps Jan, perhaps. I heard someone say they should send rednecks to Irac, tell them AQ were open season, good to eat, and said mean things about momma. The war would be over in a couple of weeks.

 
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Then we drop a nuke on Iraq afterwards, and wipe out all the rednecks. This plan sounds like a very good idea.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by jhco50:

If, and that is a big if, Obama’s policies were going to work there should have been some sign the first two years.

You do know that miracles don’t happen all that often, right?

Yet here we are, four years later, and nothing.</blocqkuote>

Uh, no, it’s definitely something, even most people on the right agree that things have changed.

It is time for Obama to go. His policies didn’t work and now we want some new ideas.

Because there’s absolutely no way Romney could do a worse job, right?

Of course not Tenco, but there should have been some signs of improvement at about two years. There was actually a drop in the economy.

Some sources think Martha Raddatz won the debate.

This is what I was trying to explain about polls. The debate was won by…? Depending on which poll you look at.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531577/who-won-the-vp-debate-why-the-polls-were-so-different/

 
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This is what I was trying to explain about polls.

Are you making a comparison between polls about who people are going to vote for and polls about who won a debate? Because they are vastly different in their methodologies and answers.

Are you attempting to say the presidential state polls are not reliable or reputable? Show me a source backing that up. Show me a source saying why each of those institutions which take polls or have taken polls are not trustworthy and are biased to the left. You are unable to do so.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:

I don’t think you’re quite getting the part where having groups like that support you isn’t good P.R. (As in, you’d probably lose voters too, because of that.)

No, he’s not getting the point, and I’m not entirely sure he even disapproves of such a person (white supremicist).

Regardless, there is always going to be a minority fringe lunatic segment like that supporting the Republican candidate, particularly when the incumbent is black. Just a sad reality. The most telling part would be if Romney approved such a segment, which I don’t think he does.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
This I must, unfortunately “agree” with.

Unfortunantly?!?! D :

You see Karma, it doesn’t kill you to agree with me every now and then : )

Nah,,, didn’t hurt a bit….
WELL, nothing that Tylenol didn’t fix….lol

NO, the “unfortuantely” part in my agreement w/ ya stems from it being unfortunate that Biden et.al. stooped to doing that. I think it could have been counterproductive for positively influencing (many?) some of the voters he needed to sway.

Originally posted by softest_voice:

I think substance of statements and falsehoods is interesting here.
Ryan repeatedly made blatantly wrong and disproven comments.
Biden was also wrong on a number of things, but a few of those at least were arguably semantic.

That part in bold is where I was going when I said VERY LIKELY the demenor of Binden could spring. The “right” appears to have mastered the art-of-the-“exageration” (and I’m being “kind” on that) and any decent individual (including some politicians…lol) should have their jaw drop when someone who has such direct impact on their lives is doing it right before them. I know I give a W T F when I’m confronted w/ it.
 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Difference being, everything Biden said wasn’t categorically false.

LOL @ conservatives getting all offended by Joe’s arrogant attitude;
After four years of nut jobs screaming about birth certificates, carrying rifles to political rallies, and screaming about secret Muslim plots…I’d laugh at the asshole too.

Sorry, but I’ve lost all respect for the “conservative” movement in this country.
You guys have let the inmates take control of the asylum.
You need a good solid dry spell to get yourselves reorganized.
To let the old bad blood die off.

Talk to me when your party’s not openly saying their only goal is to prevent the other guy getting re-elected.

B A M…..There it is in a NUT-(job) shell.

That part in bold is exactly what unbiased pundants were saying 4 years (minus 4 weeks) ago.
As for the part about Joe’s arrogance, I’ve already said he presented such and that it MIGHT have been “unfortunate” in that it could have cost some very important votes in those “swing states”.

I also have said that his demeanor is based in all of that very overt crap from the far right (as oppossed to ALL “conservatives”) Moderate conservatives do exist. They are mostly ignored because they aren’t “media-worthy”.

 
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First: Sorry guys about the multiple posts. I was shut out last night by Kong’s shutdown.

Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by jhco50:

Jaume, people have had four years of this recession. they are tired and broke. I don’t think they want another four years of the same, in fact I don’t think our country can survive another four years.


Because Romney could totally take the countrie’s economy out of the crapper in under four years, right?


If, and that is a big if, Obama’s policies were going to work there should have been some sign the first two years. Yet here we are, four years later, and nothing. It is time for Obama to go. His policies didn’t work and now we want some new ideas.


Some POSSIBLE points to consider:
1) NOT ALL ppl are tired and broke. The wealthy sure aren’t. The poor have “always” been that way….and are doing even worse as time goes by. It’s that the middle class is (quickly?) slowly moving “south” that is of relevant & BIG concern….busting of unions, higher taxes, etc.

2) Those ppl of “low-information” about their part in the recession very likely agree w/ ya, jake-o….whether or not they are “tired & broke”. But, that they are BELIEVING the “boogeyman bullshit” from those who relish winning that way. Ya know: the ends justify the means…even if the means are horridly in direct opposition to those ends. AND, what is especially ironic,,,is that these low-information voters are pretty much voting against their own economic welfare.

3) Obama’s economic policies DID WORK those first two years. They saved America from have the NEW & EVEN GREATER DEPRESSION. They probably could have made huge “jump starts” were the GOP side of Congress not so petty at that time.

4) Obama’s economic policies continue to work. Unemployment has dropped. Here in Wichita, our economy is quite robust….I almost feel guilty because of those pockets in America that aren’t as fortunate. Wichita has a very diverse business community and has always been somewhat “recession-proof”.

5) “Yet, here we are four years later, and NOTHING. Damn, are we ever gonna get that boy to drop the hyperbole? NOTHING…eh? Then the (bullshit?) BIAS factory is working 24/7/356.

6) “His policies didn’t work and now we want some new ideas.” NEWSFLASH: his policies did and are woriking. AND, if anyone believes the GOP can offer up any “NEW” ideas….well, they just don’t know that their “ideas” are pretty much the same, old, trite “over&over&over-one-trick-pony” when it comes to their low-taxes-4-the-rich-to-produce-trickle-down-economics.

 
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Well…in case it has not occured to anyone…it does not matter what facts are presented for or against whom. Once people have a party loyalty they will defend it to the end. I personally have a problem re-electing someone who is celebrating a 7.something unemployment rate…what was it before he came into office ? And…of all the jobs that are being created suddenly….how many are part time minimum wage jobs that people can not live on ? Far too many. He said when he was elected that if he did not get the job done then he would be a 1 term president. I think he needs to show some integrity, usually something that a World Leader is supposed to have, and stand by his own words. My 2 cents =)

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

BIAS factory is working 24/7/356.

It’s very encouraging to know the Bias factory has a 9 day vacation every year.

Originally posted by Ulasamasa:

Well…in case it has not occured to anyone…it does not matter what facts are presented for or against whom. Once people have a party loyalty they will defend it to the end. I personally have a problem re-electing someone who is celebrating a 7.something unemployment rate…what was it before he came into office ? And…of all the jobs that are being created suddenly….how many are part time minimum wage jobs that people can not live on ? Far too many. He said when he was elected that if he did not get the job done then he would be a 1 term president. I think he needs to show some integrity, usually something that a World Leader is supposed to have, and stand by his own words. My 2 cents =)

In 2008 Due to a lack of regulation on wall street (glass-steagall had been repealed) the economy crashed and unemployment skyrocketed to around 10%. Romney has mentioned that he wants to change the regulations that have been instated since the crash. Not a bad idea if the pattern holds the economy will bubble for about 8 years and then violently bust and at that point it won’t be Romney’s problem anymore.

 
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Originally posted by lock_of_fear:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

BIAS factory is working 24/7/356.

It’s very encouraging to know the Bias factory has a 10 day vacation every year

LOL! Good catch.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
“conservatives”) Moderate conservatives do exist. They are mostly ignored because they aren’t “media-worthy”.

This point is important enough to remember. Moderate conservatives are usually moderate because they are willing to consider an idea on it’s own merits regardless of the source. As such, their being conservative is not a barrier when it comes to the usual ‘liberal Vs conservative’ nonsense.

The only way we can progress as a people is through communication, and moderates are a wonderful way of seeing into the conservative mindset for someone like myself, whilst at the same time getting some real, constructive feedback back (and hopefully the same for themselves).

 
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Originally posted by JaumeBG:
In fact the problem is that they are undated. There is no link.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html

That’s the link issendorf provided, and the link I replied to. I made the graphs and images myself, the Electoral College votes images with help from The New York Times Electoral Map.

To access information on states, click on each state.

The point is 1) The races are tight and 2) The fact that a sitting President is under 50% in a number of swing states doesn’t bode well. Historically, if a President is below 50% in a state, the undecideds swing towards the challenger. If that holds true this election, states like OH, VA, and MI will go to Romney.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Difference being, everything Biden said wasn’t categorically false.

LOL @ conservatives getting all offended by Joe’s arrogant attitude;
After four years of nut jobs screaming about birth certificates, carrying rifles to political rallies, and screaming about secret Muslim plots…I’d laugh at the asshole too.

Sorry, but I’ve lost all respect for the “conservative” movement in this country.
You guys have let the inmates take control of the asylum.
You need a good solid dry spell to get yourselves reorganized.
To let the old bad blood die off.

Talk to me when your party’s not openly saying their only goal is to prevent the other guy getting re-elected.

Here’s the difference: those nuts aren’t the Vice President of the US. Joe Biden, well he is the Vice President of the US. If anything happens to the President, he becomes the most powerful man in the world. That terrifies me.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by lock_of_fear:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

BIAS factory is working 24/7/356.

It’s very encouraging to know the Bias factory has a 10 day vacation every year

LOL! Good catch.

LOL…I was testing ppl to see who I should hire as a “fact checker”.
If ya believe THAT, then I AM A POLITICAN fershur.

Originally posted by Ulasamasa:

Well…in case it has not occured to anyone…it does not matter what facts are presented for or against whom. Once people have a party loyalty they will defend it to the end.

Hell, “alt-person”, of course there are “sheeple”. How could we survive w/o them? I sure would like to try…lol BUT, regardless of their voter registration, a whoooole lot of voters are exactly like the MODERATES (MOTRs…middle-of-the-road) vika describes below (well worth the read).

Ppl who IGNORE FACTS probably weren’t high on the list when the Founding Forefathers wrote: We the People….

I personally have a problem re-electing someone who is celebrating a 7.something unemployment rate…what was it before he came into office ?

7.something. AND, the shit hadn’t yet hit the proverbial fan.

And…of all the jobs that are being created suddenly….how many are part time minimum wage jobs that people can not live on ? Far too many.

Tell me, just how many jobs OF ALL NATURE FOR A LOOOONG TIME are ones that ppl cannot live on? Exactly FAR TOO MANY.

He said when he was elected that if he did not get the job done then he would be a 1 term president. I think he needs to show some integrity, usually something that a World Leader is supposed to have, and stand by his own words. My 2 cents =)

Are YOU not aware that most ppl and probably near ALL “World Leaders” do is: Make such statements w/ an implied: IF…IF things remain stable (the same) and I receive decent COOPERATION from those who should be partners rather than asshole obstructionists.

Just MY 3 cents. (inflation lol)

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

Then we drop a nuke on Iraq afterwards, and wipe out all the rednecks. This plan sounds like a very good idea.

That is very inhumane. Wipe out the people who just won the war for you.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
“conservatives”) Moderate conservatives do exist. They are mostly ignored because they aren’t “media-worthy”.

This point is important enough to remember. Moderate conservatives are usually moderate because they are willing to consider an idea on it’s own merits regardless of the source. As such, their being conservative is not a barrier when it comes to the usual ‘liberal Vs conservative’ nonsense.

The only way we can progress as a people is through communication, and moderates are a wonderful way of seeing into the conservative mindset for someone like myself, whilst at the same time getting some real, constructive feedback back (and hopefully the same for themselves).

Damn, THAT gets pasted on my wall… (with push pins) on my office wall. I want to add that most Democrats are moderates, also. The independants…..well, obvious.

I want it understood that vika is meaning that these moderates have NO PROBLEM VOTING ACROSS PARTY LINES.

Originally posted by issendorf:
Joe Biden, well he is the Vice President of the US. If anything happens to the President, he becomes the most powerful man in the world. That terrifies me.

Issy, what scares the hell of me is (just below).
Originally posted by lock_of_fear:

In 2008 Due to a lack of regulation on wall street (glass-steagall had been repealed) the economy crashed and unemployment skyrocketed to around 10%. Romney has mentioned that he wants to change the regulations that have been instated since the crash. Not a bad idea if the pattern holds the economy will bubble for about 8 years and then violently bust and at that point it won’t be Romney’s problem anymore.

The GOP, very “friendly” (as in a vibrating bed) w/ big business, believes max-strongly in: Less regulation = big business prosperity = trickle down economics = little guy doing well. In theory, that sounds (as Tony T. Tiger would say) greeeaaaaaaat. HOWEVER, time-&-again, it has been shown that the greedy rich just hang onto that money and few of it finds its way into “little guy’s” pockets.
Real prosperity comes from SMALL businesses getting SMALL BUSINESS LOANS from the….ya guessed it, THE GOVT. They employ local ppl rather than send a bunch of jobs overseas. I think Obama is trying to use, ya guessed it, REGULATIONS that make sure these loans DO CREATE JOBS that stay in the U.S. Neat, hun?

 
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Originally posted by stormtrooper261:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

Then we drop a nuke on Iraq afterwards, and wipe out all the rednecks. This plan sounds like a very good idea.

That is very inhumane. Wipe out the people who just won the war for you.

Very likely, she means the more radical of the fine group known as rednecks (Check link for a fine looking T-shirt)

“A redneck is usually typified in popular culture by a straight male with a beer belly that consumes cheap American beer such as Busch or Miller by the case (Pabst Blue Ribbon in more traditional settings) as well as Jack Daniel’s. They are generally distrustful or dislike anyone not like them or the government. The stereotypical redneck lives in a trailer, and drives an old, large, beat-up pickup truck with a gun rack in the rear window. He generally wears a stained, sleeveless t-shirt, blue jeans, and a trucker hat.”

“Their hair is generally worn in the mullet style, and they favor long sideburns. Personal hygiene is a lost concept with the stereotypical redneck, and what teeth they have left generally show the complete anthology of the stages of dental caries. Their favorite activities include hunting, shooting at road signs and lights, professional wrestling, NASCAR, monster truck rallies, car engine repair, collecting junked cars and large appliances on their lawns, having way too many children and dogs, participating in domestic disturbances, and waiting around for their welfare checks. Country and Southern Rock bands such as Lynyrd Skynyrd figure in as their preferred genre of music.”

“Stereotypical redneck females have similar characteristics and interests on a feminine scale. They are most often seen barefoot, pregnant and wear Daisy Duke shorts with stiletto heels.”

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Real prosperity comes from SMALL businesses getting SMALL BUSINESS LOANS from the….ya guessed it, THE GOVT. Neat, hun?

That’s right and Obama wants to raise rise taxes on small business like hedge funds. We need to lower taxes on the job creators like these small hedge funds raking in millions of dollars or they will never expand their staff. Remember small business creates jobs.

That was a bit of an inflammatory joke. Sorry about that. Too late now I suppose.

 
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LOL lock!

 
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Originally posted by lock_of_fear:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Real prosperity comes from SMALL businesses getting SMALL BUSINESS LOANS from the….ya guessed it, THE GOVT. Neat, hun?

That’s right and Obama wants to raise rise taxes on small business like hedge funds. We need to lower taxes on the job creators like these small hedge funds raking in millions of dollars or they will never expand their staff. Remember small business creates jobs.

Originally posted by softest_voice:

LOL lock!

LOL, ya gotta love SARCASM…esp. when the shoe fits.

 
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Originally posted by Ulasamasa:

Well…in case it has not occured to anyone…it does not matter what facts are presented for or against whom. Once people have a party loyalty they will defend it to the end. I personally have a problem re-electing someone who is celebrating a 7.something unemployment rate…what was it before he came into office ?

You do know that the political right was bashing Obama with the (false) argument that after 4 years of Obama people in general were worse of than before Obama took office. The unemployment rate being above 8% was constantly “celebrated” by the political right as proof for their argument.
I find it ironic that you have a problem with electing someone who made a troubled face when the unemployment rate was above 8% and is now celebrating the 7,8% but as it seems little problem with electing someone who celebrated the 8%+ and is now making a troubled face when it comes to addressing the 7.8%.

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
I find it ironic that you have a problem with electing someone who made a troubled face when the unemployment rate was above 8% and is now celebrating the 7,8% but as it seems little problem with electing someone who celebrated the 8%+ and is now making a troubled face when it comes to addressing the 7.8%.

To be fair if the economy suddenly rallied Romney would no longer have a platform to run on. His foreign policy is garbage. A sanction being effective requires many countries to join in. During the VP debate Ryan spent some time complaining that Washington resisted and watered down the sanctions. Does he think Obama wants Iran to get a nuke? The reason the sanctions where unsupported by the president is because those sanctions did not have international support. They may have seemed stronger but the lack of international support made them much weaker.

Other then apparently wanting sanctions the US would have to impose alone without international support, He claims that they would make more credible threats of war. Why is Obama’s threat of war not credible? Ryan says because Obama did not support the seemingly more harsh(but actually less effective) sanctions. He says this sends a mixed message to Iran.

First of all Ryan is basically saying any decent in America invites weakness, does he want an absolute dictator or something? I don’t want to go back to the same tired suppressive arguments that if you don’t approve of us you’re Un-American. To express decent with the government is one of the strongest traditions in the USA going back to it’s founding. Heck politicians divide the USA all the time. It would be nice for us to stand as one but I don’t see it happening.

Second of all I think the crippling sanctions that have hit Iran are plenty clear and plenty crippling. I’m not fully up to date but iran has already offered to make a deal. and Iran’s economy is in the toilet.