U.S. Presidential Election page 6 (locked)

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Well, if you are going to stand up for unborn children, you should send probably disaster relief teams to unoccured hurricane disaster sites too. Maybe shut down cities for unocurred terrorist incidents.

After all, they’ll happen someday, right?

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by jhco50:

Interesting, I didn’t know that was why he lost so many of the black vote. I think he is trying to get the gay vote now that he has changed his mind on that subject.

That’s an incredible change of mind, especially considering fighting for equal rights for LGBT constituted some of his campaign promises the first time around. Imagine that, changing your mind, and having your mind be exactly the same as before you changed it.

I also like the way there is a “black vote”, as if black people are not capable of being individuals, and must vote en-masse if they vote at all.


Originally posted by jhco50:

You mean our Democrats are considered conservative in your country? What country is that?

Most of the first-world countries would consider the Democrats to be right-wing, and the Republicans to be extreme right wing.

If they are not right encough for you, that puts you within the bounds of fascism. There are quite a few neo-Nazi groups even in Europe, which would welcome your membership, Jhco. Have you considered finding a local chapter?

“Black vote” is just a term used when saying a campaign is targeting a specific demographic audience, but yes you are correct.

Which is funny because i think of most democrats to be closer to the left wing, but I suppose that’s because I’m a libertarian which is far right. However on both my account and the former you have to remember perception is often not the reality.

Why fascism instead of libertarianism? It would make more sense that way because fascism has a very large government and conservatives go for a smaller government.
And fascism can be considered far right just like communism can be considered far left.
And the neo-nazi thing was a little bit low don’t you think?

 
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I hope that Mitt Romney loses. He seems to only have corporate interests in mind.

I wish the republican voters would just make a new party with the same ideals but without the corporate puppet politicians.

 
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The Neo-nazi thing wasn’t actually meant as an insult. He has many views in common with those groups, and it might do him some good to socialise with like-minded people.

Why fascism instead of libertarianism? It would make more sense that way because fascism has a very large government and conservatives go for a smaller government.

Because bloating the size of government (at the local level) does seem to be a republican trend. Jhco has often said that the republican party is too far left for him, so I had to place him further right than they are. In addition, many of his views (the suppression of gays, suppression of the unemployed, elimination of Mexicans, elimination of darker skin types, elimination of rights for women, open carry in every location) almost demand heavy handed government intervention in order to monitor and control society to that extreme level.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by jhco50:

Interesting, I didn’t know that was why he lost so many of the black vote. I think he is trying to get the gay vote now that he has changed his mind on that subject.

That’s an incredible change of mind, especially considering fighting for equal rights for LGBT constituted some of his campaign promises the first time around. Imagine that, changing your mind, and having your mind be exactly the same as before you changed it.

I also like the way there is a “black vote”, as if black people are not capable of being individuals, and must vote en-masse if they vote at all.


Originally posted by jhco50:

You mean our Democrats are considered conservative in your country? What country is that?

Most of the first-world countries would consider the Democrats to be right-wing, and the Republicans to be extreme right wing.

If they are not right encough for you, that puts you within the bounds of fascism. There are quite a few neo-Nazi groups even in Europe, which would welcome your membership, Jhco. Have you considered finding a local chapter?

He has not supported gays. He may have promised to in his campaign, but he hasn’t really kept a promise yet. If he kept that promise it was because he needed their votes. I can tell you are an Obama fan, but don’t get your hopes up. He has nothing popular with the public to run on and can only lie and slander the opposition. His economy sucks, unemployment is over 8% and more foreclosures on he horizon. Food prices are way up, gas is at all time highs, and taxes have been raised higher than anytime in history with him wanting more. Do you really think he is going to be reelected?

Luckily, we are not every other country and we don’t want to be. This is another reason Obama will lose.

 
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By partially defended, do you mean calling for Mr. Akin to drop out of the race?

Rape is just another method of conception
Specifically, he states “The method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life.”
He then pivots and backpedals allowing that Romney is the Pres candidate, not himself, so hey, no big deal if I think rape babies are a gift from baby Jesus in Heaven, right?

I think you’re exaggerating on how much the GOP actually cares about abortion.

I think you’re being willfully ignorant of the fact that the GOP has a well-recorded history of enacting restrictions of women’s rights.

1) The GOP =/= Tea Party, so stop equating them. The GOP is the moderate branch of the Party, Tea Party members are the hard right.

Seriously…seriously.

2) How dare they stand up for unborn children, those bastards.

How dare they intervene in a personal decision between a man and a woman?! Even if the man is a woman’s relative, or a rapist?!
OMG HOW DARE THEY!?

LOL, the hypocrisy is delicious.
Try to regulate something like health care and ensure equal access to all?
ZOMG NOBARMAR!!!!
Try to tell a woman to stfu and have a baby, even though they won’t help out with that baby once it’s born?
SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

Pathetic. Try again.

 
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Yeah jhco…what a total dick.
That damned Obama hasn’t done shit.
Oh, wait.

And all of that despite coordinated obstruction from the GOP.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by jhco50:

Interesting, I didn’t know that was why he lost so many of the black vote. I think he is trying to get the gay vote now that he has changed his mind on that subject.

That’s an incredible change of mind, especially considering fighting for equal rights for LGBT constituted some of his campaign promises the first time around. Imagine that, changing your mind, and having your mind be exactly the same as before you changed it.

I also like the way there is a “black vote”, as if black people are not capable of being individuals, and must vote en-masse if they vote at all.


Originally posted by jhco50:

You mean our Democrats are considered conservative in your country? What country is that?

Most of the first-world countries would consider the Democrats to be right-wing, and the Republicans to be extreme right wing.

If they are not right encough for you, that puts you within the bounds of fascism. There are quite a few neo-Nazi groups even in Europe, which would welcome your membership, Jhco. Have you considered finding a local chapter?

He has not supported gays. He may have promised to in his campaign, but he hasn’t really kept a promise yet. If he kept that promise it was because he needed their votes. I can tell you are an Obama fan, but don’t get your hopes up. He has nothing popular with the public to run on and can only lie and slander the opposition. His economy sucks, unemployment is over 8% and more foreclosures on he horizon. Food prices are way up, gas is at all time highs, and taxes have been raised higher than anytime in history with him wanting more. Do you really think he is going to be reelected?

Luckily, we are not every other country and we don’t want to be. This is another reason Obama will lose.

Originally posted by softest_voice:

Is this where Jhco tells us he doesn’t hate women?
That voting for a party full of old white men that are basically legislating based on their fear of the female body doesn’t mean you believe as they do?


I’m just curious. I’ve seen and heard a lot of chatter about how the likes of the Tea Party are simply fiscal conservatives.
Yet, once the Tea Party gets a number of its candidates seated in Congress and various State-level legislatures, proposed anti-abortion bills hit a record high.


Now, over the last week or so, we’ve had statements that are seemingly indefensible, suddenly being at least partially defended by the presumptive GOP Presidential nominee and his VP pick.


All of this points, once again, to a party hell-bent on controlling a specific segment of the population, against their will, and without a sound knowledge base from which to do so.
It’s stunning.


If the GOP/TeaOP are so big on fiscal conservancy, why do they constantly focus on social conservancy as a platform?
If they’re so big on individual rights and freedoms, why do they constantly try to legislate an individual’s private life?
If you’re a GOP voter, and you claim to want a 3rd party option, why do you still vote for and empower these scared old men?

I have never said I hated women. That is just something to insult me because I don’t agree on everything you think is right and I think is wrong.

So you are saying the republican party is just a party fully of old white people? Could you be any more racist? We happen to have a lot of young people, women, and blacks. I understand you apprehension about the upcoming elections because progressives like you and some others are going to be sorely disappointed when Americans take their country back.

Well, you probably heard wrong. I have heard the Tea Party is the conservative grass roots organization for the citizen. Even the republicans are trying to silence them, at least Romneys campaign is. They don’t want the conservatives interfering in their moderate stance. I’m about half tempted to follow Omega and vote 3rd party. I thought you were comfortable with America’s stance on abortion? You know, everyone was getting on the bandwagon with it?

Not only is the GOP making statements, but when we get them in they will follow up. All of this progressive crap is about to end because our country cannot stand another four years of Obama. You should realize this unless your think America should become a 3rd world country. Hey that would make your country #3 instead of #4 as a power country, behind China and Canada.

Who ever said the fiscal conservancy was their only platform? It is an old and well rounded party. Why are you whining? You don’t even live here. Do I seem scared to you? Really? I’m one of the liberals worst enemies.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Why fascism instead of libertarianism? It would make more sense that way because fascism has a very large government and conservatives go for a smaller government.

Because bloating the size of government (at the local level) does seem to be a republican trend. Jhco has often said that the republican party is too far left for him, so I had to place him further right than they are. In addition, many of his views (the suppression of gays, suppression of the unemployed, elimination of Mexicans, elimination of darker skin types, elimination of rights for women, open carry in every location) almost demand heavy handed government intervention in order to monitor and control society to that extreme level.

Talk about exaggeration! Let me enlighten you. I am against gay marriage, abortion, gun control, illegal Mexicans. I have never said I was against blacks, legal Mexicans, or women’s rights (except free birth control and all of the other free stuff they want). I do advocate open carry in every location. And here is where you are really off. I don’t want federal government interference in anything. They should do exactly what is allowed by the Constitution and nothing more.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Yeah jhco…what a total dick.
That damned Obama hasn’t done shit.
Oh, wait.

And all of that despite coordinated obstruction from the GOP.

I think your choice of that word is a little below what you claim for intelligence. After all, I don’t seem to feel the need to call you anything. I guess that is the frustration you are feeling about our election showing through.

On the contrary, he has done a lot to destroy our economy and tear down the fabric of the American people. But, you couldn’t admit he is a dumb-ass who did all this, could you. All you can do is complain because America will be throwing him out of office and your little dream of America being a socialist country will be gone. How sad that you , not even a fellow countryman can be so upset with the turn of events. You don’t seem to realize that the silent majority you guys said didn’t exist are starting to come forward. I really feel sorry for you.

 
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Well, if you are going to stand up for unborn children, you should send probably disaster relief teams to unoccured hurricane disaster sites too. Maybe shut down cities for unocurred terrorist incidents.

This would make more sense if you could write a coherent sentence.

 
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Rape is just another method of conception
Specifically, he states “The method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life.”
He then pivots and backpedals allowing that Romney is the Pres candidate, not himself, so hey, no big deal if I think rape babies are a gift from baby Jesus in Heaven, right?

Jesus Christ, you’re reading way too much into this. Rape can lead to conception – that’s biology. Paul Ryan believes strongly in protecting all life. But he isn’t proposing making abortion from incest or rape illegal. Unless there’s a policy that he his written that includes this (in which case I’ll eat my words), but I haven’t seen said policy.

I think you’re being willfully ignorant of the fact that the GOP has a well-recorded history of enacting restrictions of women’s rights.

That will happen when a large portion of the electorate and members of Congress are devout Christians.

Seriously…seriously.

Let’s put it this way, a Tea Party member is (usually) a Republican, but a Republican isn’t necessarily a Tea Party member, therefore you can’t equate the two.

How dare they intervene in a personal decision between a man and a woman?! Even if the man is a woman’s relative, or a rapist?!
OMG HOW DARE THEY!?

LOL, the hypocrisy is delicious.
Try to regulate something like health care and ensure equal access to all?
ZOMG NOBARMAR!!!!
Try to tell a woman to stfu and have a baby, even though they won’t help out with that baby once it’s born?
SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

Pathetic. Try again.

I actually agree that the government doesn’t have this authority to regulate abortion. I just think blasting the GOP for standing up for unborn children (defending the defenseless if you will, something the Democratic Party loves to pride themselves on) in lieu of ’women’s rights’ is a bit unfair.

 
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On the contrary, he has done a lot to destroy our economy and tear down the fabric of the American people. But, you couldn’t admit he is a dumb-ass who did all this, could you. All you can do is complain because America will be throwing him out of office and your little dream of America being a socialist country will be gone. How sad that you , not even a fellow countryman can be so upset with the turn of events. You don’t seem to realize that the silent majority you guys said didn’t exist are starting to come forward. I really feel sorry for you.

Talk about exaggeration!

 
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My clumsy attempt to “right things”:
. . . . . . . . . .

Originally posted by Ketsy:


jhco said:

On the contrary, he has done a lot to destroy our economy and tear down the fabric of the American people. But, you couldn’t admit he is a dumb-ass who did all this, could you. All you can do is complain because America will be throwing him out of office and your little dream of America being a socialist country will be gone. How sad that you , not even a fellow countryman can be so upset with the turn of events. You don’t seem to realize that the silent majority you guys said didn’t exist are starting to come forward. I really feel sorry for you.

Talk about exaggeration!

 
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Actually, it was intentional. jhco said vikaTae was exaggerating, and then immediately went on to make a post talking about how Obama is “our messiah” and “he has done a lot to destroy our economy.”

I thought it was ironic.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I was going to ask you people if you are doing better now than before Obama was elected, but I guess many of you are still living with mom and dad or in other countries with different circumstances. Here, we are not doing better.I gave you plenty that is wrong and yet you think we are doing so well.

His economy sucks, unemployment is over 8% and more foreclosures on he horizon. Food prices are way up, gas is at all time highs, and taxes have been raised higher than anytime in history with him wanting more.

Is this what you people want? Is this way of punishing America for some nonsense thinking that we deserve to be torn to the ground? This last page of the thread is so eye opening. You think the messiah is so wonderful while he tears the country down. Four more years and American won’t even exist as the powerful country it once was.

Even though you all know the citizen is hurting, losing their jobs and homes, you insist that SOB we have leading us is wonderful. He is worthless as a leader, destroying everything America stands for. Then you attack the people for taking a stand to straighten out the mess we are in. Yes, this is eye opening. I think what amazes me most is a few of our own countrymen/women hoping America falls. I call these traitors…there is no other word to describe them.

You gripe and moan about social programs for everyone, paid for of course by the working. Yet the working class is shrinking. Who is supposed to pay for this? China? It’s time you liberals woke up and started using the intelligence you all claim to have and think about the stupidity of the democratic party.

1. Taxes have not been raised higher than anytime in history. Stop lying.
2. The economy is certainly not that good, but so far i have seen nothing to show that the republicans could do or would have done any better. Republicans one might add who are responsible for the two Wars(Iraq and Afghanistan) that play a great role in making the mess you are in as bad as it is, as well as following the ideal of deregulated financial market that was the actual cause of the Banking problems.
You are the one here trying to put back the people in charge that caused the economic mess. Going around and claiming how bad Obama is(mostly based on lies) and how others are trying to destroy America is insulting.
3. The social programs enacted by the Democrats that (i know of) are all both investments in the Future(a better educated and more healthy future) and economic growth programs. Fact is money spent on social welfare by the government has a much faster cycling rate and a much much higher rate of cycling inside of America, than money that could or would be taxed to pay for such social programs or spending the debt that is made on such social programs on tax cuts to companies.
In times where economy is down its a preferable method to increase economic growth, than giving big companies tax cuts, that then invest the money gained through the tax cuts where they can get the highest return for their money(Tip during a economic downturn in America this will usually not be in America, with the notable exceptions of Loans to the Government).

 
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A few facts:

1. The majority of people are more concerned about their direct, personal welfare than a growing economy and investments for the future.
2. Presidents that are making decisions better for the country are called bad for the country due to not making decisions that immediately increase personal welfare.
3. Events outside of anyone’s control are blamed on the current president.
4. Events outside of anyone’s control fading away during a president’s time are blamed on the former president and are said to be solved by the current president.

In short, I think I’m merely annoyed by the usage of certain concepts. A president doesn’t “destroy the country”. A president isn’t “better for the country” when he promises to directly increase your personal welfare. I haven’t watched any Fox News myself, but the types of arguments I hear they use are typical in Jhco’s posts. Leaving out facts, putting a lot of emphasis on others, playing on people’s emotions, and heavy exaggeration.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:
. I haven’t watched any Fox News myself, but the types of arguments I hear they use are typical in Jhco’s posts. Leaving out facts, putting a lot of emphasis on others, playing on people’s emotions, and heavy exaggeration.

That is as well stated as it is accurate.
NOW…tell me what is behind the “near-obsessive” desire for ppl to listen to & then follow such thinking?
If ya can do that,,,we just might be able to lay to rest the huge discord going on in America today.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Yeah jhco…what a total dick.
That damned Obama hasn’t done shit.
Oh, wait.

And all of that despite coordinated obstruction from the GOP.

now, how to get that information out to all the Democrats, while avoiding the undecided Conservatists from getting wind?


oh btw, Fox News is an opinion show. it’s not journalism if you constantly tell your audiance what to feel about the issues you bring forward.

 
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Once again, I don’t know the details about Fox News, but the name itself gives off an implication I’d rather not want to make. If it is properly shown it isn’t any factual news, but merely a bunch of opinions, I’m all good with it.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Once again, I don’t know the details about Fox News, but the name itself gives off an implication I’d rather not want to make. If it is properly shown it isn’t any factual news, but merely a bunch of opinions, I’m all good with it.

Well least time I checked, there was a radio show with the slogan “Where public opinion overrides facts,” So yeah, I’m guessing they’re starting to get that they’re just making propaganda.

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:

1. Taxes have not been raised higher than anytime in history. Stop lying.
2. The economy is certainly not that good, but so far i have seen nothing to show that the republicans could do or would have done any better. Republicans one might add who are responsible for the two Wars(Iraq and Afghanistan) that play a great role in making the mess you are in as bad as it is, as well as following the ideal of deregulated financial market that was the actual cause of the Banking problems.
You are the one here trying to put back the people in charge that caused the economic mess. Going around and claiming how bad Obama is(mostly based on lies) and how others are trying to destroy America is insulting.
3. The social programs enacted by the Democrats that (i know of) are all both investments in the Future(a better educated and more healthy future) and economic growth programs. Fact is money spent on social welfare by the government has a much faster cycling rate and a much much higher rate of cycling inside of America, than money that could or would be taxed to pay for such social programs or spending the debt that is made on such social programs on tax cuts to companies.
In times where economy is down its a preferable method to increase economic growth, than giving big companies tax cuts, that then invest the money gained through the tax cuts where they can get the highest return for their money(Tip during a economic downturn in America this will usually not be in America, with the notable exceptions of Loans to the Government).

Yes, taxes have been raised that much Johnny. The healthcare mandate has been judged a tax by the SCOTUS. It is now a tax and the highest onetime tax in history.

The economy is crap. The republicans have always been for smaller government and less spending. Yes, they could have done better. I think Obama screwed up with his stimulus bill. He gave money to businesses, banks, and wall street thinking these institutions were too big to fail. In reality, they should have failed and some of them did, even after being bailed out. Obama was so worried about these institutions failing that he ignored the bread and butter of the nation, the working people. Remember his shovel ready jobs? This was a rehash of FDRs CC camps. But where FDR actually hired and implemented these camps (our interstate highways), Obama just talked about it. Have you seen any shovel ready jobs? Nope? Well, neither have I.

You said the banks caused our economic woes. Well, they helped, but they weren’t the instigating cause of the economic bust, our government was. Have you heard of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac? These are entities put together by the democrats. Barney Franks was the leading proponent of these entities. They control the real estate market. The idea was that everyone should be able to own their own home, basically another social program that didn’t work. In order to implement this ideal, government made banks give mortgages to people who really couldn’t afford them. This has gone on for years and when our economy went down hill, these people with iffy loans were the first to walk away from their homes, causing a domino effect. What is maddening is the fact Obama pumped part of that stimulus into these entities to keep them going. He used these two entities to buy up many of these bad mortgages using the taxpayer money and money he borrowed from China. Don’t get me wrong, some of these banks can share in the blame. They were using this bad mortgages to speculate. This is part ow what took these big financial institutions down.

When a country doesn’t have the money to keep itself afloat without borrowing money, why in the hell would they enact social program after social program? Why did we need Obamacare in the middle of a depression? Oh yes, this is a depression. Over a trillion dollar program that citizens despise and yet this is so important to the democrats. Why do the republicans promise to repeal this? People don’t want it.

You cannot recover an economy by spending all of the nations wealth on social programs…or on anything. Try that when you are having a rough time with your budget. What do you think would happen if you owed a large sum of money that has come due with creditors hounding you for the money? Would you run out and buy a new car or take a vacation? Would you blow your savings rather than try to work out a solution? Basically, this is what you and our democrats proposed.

What would be the benefit of cutting taxes? Small businesses would have more money to hire workers? What would consumers do if they had more money in their pockets? Spend it on products manufactured by those small businesses? Wow, what a concept. That would mean those small businesses could hire more people and with more people working, the government would have more taxpayers to support it and the GDP would grow. Can you just imagine this? We call it capitalism.

Government does not directly create jobs. They can stifle job creation with regulations, but they can’t create anything. The government is an entity that consumes, but since they are the government, thus don’t pay taxes, they don’t add to the GDP, they actually take away from the GDP. This seems to have been lost on Obama, who thinks taxpayers are unimportant. This is exactly why our economy has not improved.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Yes, taxes have been raised that much Johnny. The healthcare mandate has been judged a tax by the SCOTUS. It is now a tax and the highest onetime tax in history.

Sigh. I already pointed out that this is wrong. The penalty was ruled to be a legal extension of the federal governments ability to collect Taxes. So with a bit of stretching the word it could be called a Tax and till be technically correct. The mandate itself can not be called a tax.

The economy is crap. The republicans have always been for smaller government and less spending. Yes, they could have done better.

1. Looking at the actual voting habits and actual ideals of the republicans i call this bullshit. They differ in what spending they prioritize(“security” instead of social), not the amount they want to spend and when they can´t get away with pushing their fucked up morality on others on the federal level. They try to make it a state level issue. Smaller federal government, yes but only when they are not in charge and then by increasing the government at the state level where they are in charge.
2. A smaller government and less spending does not create economic growth. Any country that has done so has had the economy suffer because of it. A prime example of this can currently be seen in Greece.

I think Obama screwed up with his stimulus bill. He gave money to businesses, banks, and wall street thinking these institutions were too big to fail. In reality, they should have failed and some of them did, even after being bailed out. Obama was so worried about these institutions failing that he ignored the bread and butter of the nation, the working people. Remember his shovel ready jobs? This was a rehash of FDRs CC camps. But where FDR actually hired and implemented these camps (our interstate highways), Obama just talked about it. Have you seen any shovel ready jobs? Nope? Well, neither have I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009#Provisions_of_the_Act

If i compare the above Bill to the claims you make about it and about Obama, it kinda gives the feeling your living in a´n alternate reality. Can you point out where the stimulus Bill gives lots of Money to the Banks(As far as i know thats done through TARP which was made under Bush in 2008). Damn the whole Bill is actually the antithesis of your claim that Obama ignored the working people. You so proudly showing of how false informed you are its disgusting to watch.

The rest is just more of your ignorance. I started correcting the stuff but then lost motivation. Your just going to forget that you were wrong again and then spout the exact same nonsense anyway, as if this whole discussion did not exist.