Animal Rights page 2

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a species is only responsible for itself,

so if another race comes here, and since they are more advanced, declare us inferior, that is alright?

 
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I think an animal should be free from torture and maltreatment, if only to make me and many other people feel better. Killing for food is fine, killing for defence is fine, killing for any other necessary resource (although none come to mind now) is fine. Animals should be respected, but they are in no way equal to us.

We cannot give an animal the same rights as a human because therefore we would have to give them the same responsibilities. Therefore, if a lion mauled a child, for example, it would have to be punished by the law under the same rules as humans. This obviously is useless, as a lion cannot fully understand the impact that its actions will have, but if it is to be treated the same as humans, this must be assumed. You cannot have rights without responsibilities. Animals cannot have the responsibility, so they cannot have the same rights as us.

 
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so then where do you draw the line, say is it okay to kill a really smart monkey that understands sign language?

 
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so then where do you draw the line, say is it okay to kill a really smart monkey that understands sign language?

Depends. What exactly has the monkey done? If it is attacking you, then yes. If it is the only thing to eat and you are starving to death, yes. Again, even a really smart monkey cannot comprehend its actions to the same level as humans. It does not understand the idea of property fully, so theft is incomprehensible to it, for example. Just because a monkey can understand simple language does not put it on the same level as us. I can see what you mean though, but I don’t think any animal is as intelligent as us and therefore cannot be given the same rights.

 
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Originally posted by pmr0078:

a species is only responsible for itself,

so if another race comes here, and since they are more advanced, declare us inferior, that is alright?

If they can defeat us then yes.

 
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If they can defeat us then yes.

http://science.kukuchew.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/kangaroo-punch-woman.jpg

 
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I was unaware that is how you fight…

 
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I was unaware that is how you fight…

http://www.nzhuntingexp.co.nz/Images/Liam.jpg

 
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Depends. What exactly has the monkey done? If it is attacking you, then yes. If it is the only thing to eat and you are starving to death, yes. Again, even a really smart monkey cannot comprehend its actions to the same level as humans. It does not understand the idea of property fully, so theft is incomprehensible to it, for example. Just because a monkey can understand simple language does not put it on the same level as us. I can see what you mean though, but I don’t think any animal is as intelligent as us and therefore cannot be given the same rights.

who’s to say an alien race cant come here and say that we cannot comrehend their form of thinking and they will treat us the same as we treate our animals

oh and, btw, that picture is horrible, what a smiling little bastard.

 
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Originally posted by pmr0078:

Depends. What exactly has the monkey done? If it is attacking you, then yes. If it is the only thing to eat and you are starving to death, yes. Again, even a really smart monkey cannot comprehend its actions to the same level as humans. It does not understand the idea of property fully, so theft is incomprehensible to it, for example. Just because a monkey can understand simple language does not put it on the same level as us. I can see what you mean though, but I don’t think any animal is as intelligent as us and therefore cannot be given the same rights.

who’s to say an alien race cant come here and say that we cannot comrehend their form of thinking and they will treat us the same as we treate our animals

oh and, btw, that picture is horrible, what a smiling little bastard.

They can, what is your problem?

 
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who’s to say an alien race cant come here and say that we cannot comrehend their form of thinking and they will treat us the same as we treate our animals

You’re right, who is to say they won’t? However, seeing as we can understand the results and possible results of our own actions, we can comprehend the thinking. That is all that is necessary. Animals cannot do this because as far as I know they lack the ability to imagine and/or comprehend their imagination fully. Many animals can learn from things they have seen before, but only we can learn from things we have never seen and never will see, all created inside our own minds. It is only at that point that you can truly take responsibility for our actions. As we can do it then we can, at least up to a point, comprehend their thinking.

 
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I think hot dogs are awesome.

 
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The speculation that an alien race might exist and might be superior to us is not going to stop me from killing an animal out of safety or hunger, or make me treat animals with the same rights as humans. That would be ludicrous.

Likewise, speculation over the possibility of their nonexistence is not going to cause me to mistreat animals.

 
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I think hot dogs are awesome.

I do too :)
Real dog however, tastes awful supposedly. As does cat, and I speak from experience here.

Now my brain is dead, and it’s 1 in the morning here so I’m going to bed. I’ll come back tomorrow and argue some more with someone about something.

 
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so if another race comes here, and since they are more advanced, declare us inferior, that is alright?

it would suck for us, and there’d be a lot of “how can they do this” being said, but if there’s nothing we can do about it, there’s nothing we can do about it. I did not make a moral distinction, i stated a fact of nature.

we eat the species who are tasty and too stupid to avoid being eaten. we wear the species who make good coats. we make species good at pulling heavy things pull heavy things for us. it’s the way things are, and if it wasn’t us, any other species would not act differently towards us. we already very very likely exterminated the only other semi-intelligent primate some 30 000 years ago, and i have no doubt that the Neanderthals would have done the same to the Cro-Magnon-sapiens if they had had the chance.

only species in an obligate symbiosis take immediate interest in the well-being of another species. human morals only apply to humans because other animals are not humans, that’s why we can eat them, hunt them, wear them or make them lift heavy things for us without a guilty conscience.

 
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Animals are necessary in many cases to provide us food where other resources are unable to complete the task. I’m sure there are some people who want to be vegetarian or convert the world to become vegetarian, but we know that for as long as the population continues to grow and there is still hunger in parts of the world, animals will be used to fulfill that basic physiological need to eat. That said, I don’t think that animals that are meant to be eaten, depending on the place of course, since different animals are eaten in different places, should have rights, and that those that are kept as pets should.

Now, why would I make a separation between the two? Pets are kept and maintained to keep living and to take away a pets life could be compared to murder. These animals are not necessary for our survival and just live for the sake of living, although with an owner, of course. On the other hand, we must murder other animals on a daily basis to keep ourselves and parts of the world from starving. There is a greater necessity that we must consider and fulfill for ourselves before we consider the rights of that which we eat.

 
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I fish a lot, and often I keep the fish because I love fried catfish. Its a heck of a lot cheaper doing it this way. On top of that, It gives me a sense of survival. Sure, I might have a 50 dollar ugly stick mated with a 150 dollar catmaster reel, but I could catch the same fish with a cane and pole. Do I feel bad for the fish? Sure. Why not. It isn’t exactly going to go out in style, but thats a food source that I use strictly for food.

I cannot stand people who abuse animals. By this, what in the hell is the point of setting a cat on fire while alive? How in the world do you find something like that funny? All that does is show that you lack maturity, and you just might have a mental condition that your family hasn’t caught on to yet. Now I’m not saying its wrong to eat cat (I haven’t, but its not a common thing in America) but I don’t see anything wrong with it. We slaughter cows, we slaughter chickens, we slaughter a lot of things in the name of food. No problem there. Its the barbaric treatment of animals unrelated to them being a food source that boils my blood.

I have no problem with hunters. In certain parts of my state, white tail deer are WAY overpopulated and can be invasive in a number of ways. In a situation like this, kill for the antlers, kill for the meat, I don’t care. Its not like the deer knows whats going on after its dead anyways. In areas where deer are regulated, then killing for the sole purpose of a rack is foolish.

I guess what I’m saying is kill for the productivity. Torturing is for people with little “appendages” that just cant seem to make themselves stand up to par with the others.

For the person (yes I can quote, don’t feel like scrolling back over post) who said “Who cares if the animal has feelings, its going to die anyways…or whatever” Seriously now. Are you that dull headed? You too will eventually pass on as well. In that sense, you are no different then an animal. You fade to dirt just the same.

Eat your pork, eat your beef, hell, eat whatever fulfills your pallet. Just dont be a douche and torture the damn things. There is a reason why are brains are more advanced than anything on this planet, and its surely not to imitate a lion tearing off an antelopes leg and eating its stomach while its still alive as someone said… Get real. We are out of stone age.

 
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should have rights,

Why? Why “should” humans have rights as well?

that’s why we can eat them, hunt them, wear them or make them lift heavy things for us without a guilty conscience.

I wonder if humans taste nice, would be good sport to hunt, make good clothing and I already know they make excellent slaves.

I assume if aliens do take over they will keep some of us for sport. That’ll be quite fun. :)

Torturing is for people with little “appendages” that just cant seem to make themselves stand up to par with the others.

That’s what you think…

Seriously now. Are you that dull headed? You too will eventually pass on as well. In that sense, you are no different then an animal. You fade to dirt just the same.

Probally me. Of course I will, I know I will. I am no different from an animal in that sense. I fail to see your point.

Just dont be a douche and torture the damn things.

Why the hell not? If I want to do and can do it I’ll go right ahead and do it.

There is a reason

There is? Please, I have not heard of one. A reason behind human life. I assume you do not mean evolution. I assume you mean more a reason reason than a how reason. More a why reason the context suggests to me.

Get real.

This means what?

We are out of stone age.

Bravo, Mr. Obvious.

 
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Why? Why “should” humans have rights as well?

well if you don’t want rights go right ahead and be my slave :D

I wonder if humans taste nice, would be good sport to hunt, make good clothing and I already know they make excellent slaves.
I assume if aliens do take over they will keep some of us for sport. That’ll be quite fun. :)

it would :D, but we would probably serve as slaves, and if the aliens have any barbaric behavior left in their veins (or other) like we do, they would hunt us. They would drug us and release us into our natural habitat(a maze of cubicals ) where they would hunt us down with lazers!

Maybe they will pin us against each other (like dog fighting) and have a real life FPS elimination.

Why the hell not? If I want to do and can do it I’ll go right ahead and do it.

that’s great, don’t you feel special torturing something that doesnt stand a chance against you

Bravo, Mr. Obvious.

I believe his name is Captain Obvious, he didn’t spend 8 years training just to be called mister you know.

 
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Why? Why “should” humans have rights as well?

Your general logic is that whoever is bigger and better gets free reign over everything. Since the majority of people believe humans should have basic rights, there doesn’t need to be a reason. A quote you often use is “History is written by the victors,”. Your opinion, under your logic, is irrelevant, as the majority (I.E. Victors) have already set up legal and ethical systems based around the idea of human rights.

This over simplification of your ideas probably doesn’t appeal to you, and I honestly don’t expect it to.

 
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That’s what you think…

Your thinking the same thing I am.

Probally me. Of course I will, I know I will. I am no different from an animal in that sense. I fail to see your point.

That was the point…

Why the hell not? If I want to do and can do it I’ll go right ahead and do it.

You go ahead and have that thought with everything you do in life. We will see where that gets ya.

There is? Please, I have not heard of one. A reason behind human life. I assume you do not mean evolution. I assume you mean more a reason reason than a how reason. More a why reason the context suggests to me.

Well, lets look at it this way…are you tearing off antelope limbs off with your teeth? Are you eating the animal alive? Lets not go into all the health risk’s of doing such actions. That in itself is reason enough not to. But hey, if you’d like to dip on off to the times where we ate raw meat, and didn’t use soap, then by all means, go back to it. You don’t need the internet for that.

This means what?

I thought it was pretty cut and dry. However, I will cater to your sarcastic needs. Reality, in everyday usage, means “the state of things as they actually exist”. To further help you out, I have supplied you with a link. Be careful, it might get ya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

Bravo, Mr. Obvious.

Oh the irony.

 
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just one question

if there is an endangered animal, and it start to hunt another endangered animal, what do you do?

Is there like an order of rareness the endangered species list goes by, and which ever is more rare, you save?

 
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There is an order to endangered status:

Extinct
Extinct in the Wild
Threatened

Critically Endangered
Endangered
Vulnerable
Threatened
Lower risk

Conservation Dependent
Near Threatened
Least Concern

Species that are near the bottom of the list are quite unlikely to encounter one another due to both the basic statistics of the situation, and the fact that animals that we know are so rare are most likely in custody somewhere.

Copy Failed, the list is here

 
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yea I know about that, but is there an actual list that lists the names of the animals in order

like because what if in my situation, the two animals were both on the “critically endangered” list

 
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There is a list but I don’t think it is in order. Depends on your location as well, most countries have their own lists.