Are you like this face-to-face?

I understand this is Serious Discussion, but every thread with the word “Religon” in it’s title, has a clusterfuck of atheists having a shit-storm anti-sematist party it seems about why their views has to be correct and a load of bull about anyone who is remotely religous. Do you, the “aggresive” atheists who go out of their way to prove there is no god, act like this in real life or are you acting like this solely because you are behind a computer screen?

I am sorry if I seem rude, as I am well aware there are atheists that are both tolerable and tolerating, but the ones that feel the need to seek attention or cause trouble act like this in the outside world face-to-face with other people?

well i don’t care for Atheists either, but theists of most forms tend to be far better at drawing attention to their beliefs and being either intentionally or ingorantly unintentionally a dick to everyone not of the smae religion.

I typically don’t talk about religion unless someone brings it up, then I’m just as “aggressive” as I am here.

It’s as if theists think their doing it makes sense, but atheists are just being disagreeable.

Tomorrow, roleplay as an atheist, and tell me how the world looks to you. Atheists are acting no different than many many theists act every single day. I tend to think atheists who cry prejudice need to be put in concentration camps, but the complaint that atheists here over-proselytize is ironic.

I’ve never met an atheist that was as intolerant as the ones on the internet.

Well when you’re in a room full of people parroting an ancient book from an ancient civilization, it isn’t exactly kosher to start asking why anyone would possibly ever in their right mind humor such ostensibly absurd notions, since they certainly wouldn’t believe I sell potions from the fountain of youth. Furthermore, these people pretty much assume the world agrees with them, as many of the people on these forums do, so it’s not likely that they’ll even humor such disagreements. Theists online are eager to validate themselves and convince others of their beliefs, and so we have a wonderful time challenging them and expecting them to come up with, I don’t know, one good reason they believe what they do. If you don’t like it…. why are you here? Stick to the circles where everyone smiles and nods. It seems many people with incredibly fallacious beliefs are the first to cry “I have a right to an opinion,” but first to whine about anyone else’s.

I get told by the very nature of the society around me that I’m wrong all the time, doesn’t bug me one bit. You get told a basic logical truth about the ineffability of your claims, and you cry intolerance. Wah. Not to mention, a majority of people on these forums aren’t arguing for anti-theism, but neutrality from the world. By pretending everyone believes the opposite of you, you can assume they’re just as intolerant as you are.

Edit: I really didn’t mean to direct that specifically AT you, MyTie, it’s more of a general frustration with the “stop picking on me” mentality of theists who live in America. You cannot possibly think that we’re acting without any provocation at all, can you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwwvBygoFA

bad voice acting, but illustrates the point well.

or, if i can really be ruthless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpz8PMcRJSY

I get told the “basic logical truth”? I love how you paint that. It makes atheists online sound like a bunch of polite gentlemen out to suppose basic truths. How nice and sweet. Now, let’s talk about the reality of the situation, where religious debate turns into a mockery of my beliefs, where I might as well believe in Harry Potter, unicorns, and Santa Claus. It’s all about how stupid and ignorant and selfish and controlling and narrow-minded and stupid etc etc etc. As you put it, I just cannot seem to grasp the “basic logical truth” and so I “cry” intolerance. What a jerk.

@TheBSG -

I don’t know who you are directing it at, but the OP’s frustration is justified. He explains that not all atheists are like that. But, it’s not just crying without any reason. Many atheists online do tend to be massive jerks. That’s what he is speaking about. The actions of some theists isn’t justification for that, nor vice versa.

i haven’t seen a single atheist act like a jerk on that topic. not once. not unless you cound sniding satire as being a jerk.

i’ve seen plenty of theists act like jerks, going so far as to tell others they must, will and deserve to suffer unimaginable suffers.

i have not once seen any atheist generalise all theists as inherently, unexceptionally evil (sometimes as stupid though). i have seen plenty of theists call generalise all atheists as inherently, unexceptionally evil, regardless of what they do or what they’re like but purely based on a difference of belief.

Well, this is two fold. In general, when theism isn’t either being expressed as an absolute truth, or being lorded over others, I am at least not going to complain at all. You’ll most often find me defending religious people for believing what they believe, legally and respect-wise. When people are either looking for a fight, they think that they can disregard basic things we know about the universe because it suits their beliefs, or they deny the rights of others because of their beliefs, I’m not going to pretend they’re right and call that respect. In fact, I tend to think that challenging someone’s beliefs is inherently showing them dignity and giving them a chance to defend themselves. You’ll find the biggest disrespect, specifically from myself that you can get, is for me to stop arguing with you, not when I call your thinking magical.

The second point has to do with the whole furry argument where it’s considered disrespect to laugh at a grown man in a mascot costume, or when someone makes fun of a person mispronouncing “ask” as “axe” and it’s taken as racist. The content of an opinion or a person’s character is entirely up for criticism. Having an opinion doesn’t mean it’s right, and having an opinion doesn’t mean it isn’t going to be criticized. If anyone starts attacking you for just wearing a cross, they’re jerks. If someone laughs when you tell them the world is 6000 years old, they’re only expressing their opinion’s too.

I had a professor in college who taught theology and history. He’d bring random religious facts into class, and I’d raise my hand and challenge him on it. He took me aside after class and asked me why I was so resistant to biblical insights, since he mentioned at the beginning of the class that it was his other area of study and he liked to give cross references: I explained I was an atheist, but that it really didn’t matter since I was a rationalist too and didn’t want real history being muddled with unconfirmed stories from ancient cultures. He blinked. “I’ve never met an atheist before. What does that mean? The bible is history, too.” He eventually would stop being understading and would get really frustrated with me, as if I was somehow fucking with him just to be a jerk, and not because he was suggesting Moses parted the red sea sometime around the same time as this week’s chapter. I might have even tolerated it if he was just giving a reference point, but even then, why? Why not mention the invention of writing in China? The experiences of Sumerian gods? The time Zues had a virgin impregnated with Hercules?

It isn’t unreasonable for us to be intolerant of what, to anyone else, is nonsense. I’ll never vote for you to be locked in a prison camp, but I’m certainly not going to let you teach that crap to my children with my tax dollars, or try to vote your ideals into office.

This is a debate forum. If you find it offensive that people are disagreeing here, specially on topics like that where one group is using different definitions than the other one then you should probably not visit debating forums.

MyTie has a bit of a point, but I think we can make an analogy here. Some of us may feel like teachers. At the very least, I do. I’m trying to teach certain people on here the truth. But, unfortunately, I’m not as patient as real-life teachers ought to be. This is largely because I’m not here to teach basic logic. You should grasp that part! I think many of us here get frustrated over people not understanding or using basic logic, and we may lash out at times. I am trying to be patient, but I’m not going to be teaching you basic logic, so I’ll point out you’re not using it and move on.

everyone is more “agressive” on the internet
people say things on the internet that they would NEVER say in real life
that goes for everyone-.- we all do it from time to time

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

MyTie has a bit of a point, but I think we can make an analogy here. Some of us may feel like teachers. At the very least, I do. I’m trying to teach certain people on here the truth. But, unfortunately, I’m not as patient as real-life teachers ought to be. This is largely because I’m not here to teach basic logic. You should grasp that part! I think many of us here get frustrated over people not understanding or using basic logic, and we may lash out at times. I am trying to be patient, but I’m not going to be teaching you basic logic, so I’ll point out you’re not using it and move on.

This is an excellent point. I think you’ll find my debates with my real-life theist friends are far more intellectually stimulating because they don’t take the termonology “magical thinking” as an insult. They don’t take absurd reductionist comments about the claims in their books as strawmen, but illustrations of my perspective. They can also tell me when my beliefs are stupid to them using language that allows me to defend myself, instead of telling me that I’m just not closing my eyes hard enough, or that I couldn’t possibly be a moral person without their ideals. I don’t have to teach them how to think to argue with them and get something out of it, so I don’t end up calling them retarded.

Let me make an illustration for you then, and don’t take it as an insult, as your friends don’t.

Imagine that you and I are sitting at a table having a debate. I put forward my points in a logical fashion, and then you pull down your pants, bend over on the table, pull your cheeks apart, and push out a nutty brown loaf. That’s how some atheists act on the internet. I don’t care if your friends like the smell of your shit. I don’t.

Meanwhile in an identical debate, the religious person pulls out a IED and kills everyone because they disagree with him. My bullshit illustration is just as valid as yours.

MyTie,

That is a case study of what once might have happened to you, but it is not how we act. The problem of having to teach basic logic is something I see almost every day (luckily only with a select few regulars, or those that don’t post often at all).

Yeah. Religious people are wrong sometimes. The difference is, when religious people do stuff wrong, I say “they are wrong and shouldn’t do that”. When atheists do stuff wrong, you get a bunch of excuses for why they act like that, or how it’s fair because other people are wrong too (am I right arbitor).

When atheists do stuff wrong, you get a bunch of excuses for why they act like that, or how it’s fair because other people are wrong too (am I right arbitor).

No, you’re not right, because you’re generalising when not providing any evidence for it at all.

Do you really need me to present evidence to you? Do you think it would be hard to find atheists being jerks online? I mean, really. Are you being serious?

There a few religious people who are assholes on the internet.
There a few atheists that are also assholes on the internet.
This is a stupid argument.

It was a stupid argument, until people started making flimsy defenses for the atheists. At that point it started to really bother me. Why not just say they are wrong and move on? Why not explain that they are teachers, and have basic logic, etc etc…. Assholes are wrong. That’s my point. When people are assholes, and agree with my basic positions, I make sure to point out that I think they are wrong for doing that. I don’t bend over backward to try to justify their childishness and tell everyone that doesn’t like it to “stop crying”. That’s BS.

Do you really need me to present evidence to you? Do you think it would be hard to find atheists being jerks online? I mean, really. Are you being serious?

I ask you evidence for your generalisation, not for your case study. There’s a huge difference.

I didn’t generalize atheists. I said that some atheists are like that. Even the OP doesn’t generalize. Could you quote where I generalized?

If you think I was generalizing when I explained that when an atheist is wrong, people will defend him and this is wrong, look at this thread for evidence.

Maybe I wouldn’t have been so insistent if you added a “sometimes” in there, but if you meant that, I’ll have no further questions.

My only concern now is to say that atheists are somewhat of a minority in America and aren’t treated very well. That could lead to some actions and people justifying those actions due to hatred of bigotry.

Originally posted by MyTie:

Let me make an illustration for you then, and don’t take it as an insult, as your friends don’t.

Imagine that you and I are sitting at a table having a debate. I put forward my points in a logical fashion, and then you pull down your pants, bend over on the table, pull your cheeks apart, and push out a nutty brown loaf. That’s how some atheists act on the internet. I don’t care if your friends like the smell of your shit. I don’t.

oh look, someone has watched South Park!

but really, the amount of crap from theists will always be far larger than the amound of crap from atheists. please point to any such brown loafs you find particularly smelly…