How can we deal with the Muslim overreactions? page 6

214 posts

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Actually, I don’t agree with the death penalty. I don’t think government should decide when ending an individual’s life is a good cause. However, when weighed against self defense, it is. Further, the US should defend itself, with lethal force, when faced with lethal force. Arguments such as “neither terrorist nor US are better” serves one purpose: to portray the arguer as some sort of sensitive philosophical trendy intellect. What it does, is to argue that “neither terrorist nor US are better”, and that, is fucking stupid. When faced with the pictures of Muhammod al-Jazzir Mohammod running through the streets holding a US citizen’s corpse, shouting “death to the US”, any American who minimalizes the heinousness of the actions is fucking stupid. It’s as dumb as cheering someone on who is putting a gun to your head. If that insanity had been trendy back in the 1930s, there would be no Jews and we’d all be speaking German. That simple thought makes me worry for the future.

 
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When faced with the pictures of Muhammod al-Jazzir Mohammod running through the streets holding a US citizen’s corpse, shouting “death to the US”, any American who minimalizes the heinousness of the actions is fucking stupid.

Oh, mate. And I indeed agree! Also, any American who shows the heinousness of the quantity of civilian casualties in pretty much any war involving the United States ought to be branded as unpatriotic and we ought to shut them up! [Satire (of your political viewpoints)]

 
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You know, MyTie, the main problem for me here is that I still don’t quite understand what you want.

Do you want to say that the embassy should have been defended when the attack took place?
Because if that’s what you want to say I absolutely agree.

The thing is, from what you say it sounds more like: “There’s unrest and violence in that country. We should send troops there and end that. BAM! WOOOHOOOO! Bomb the f***ers and forget about them! YEEEHAW!”

Who knows, maybe I am simply misunderstanding you through all those overgeneralisations and those Idiot!-, Don’t you see the difference between a terrorist and a marine on a peace mission, you dumbass?!- and generally You’re stupid if you don’t understand me!-shouts of yours.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
His corpse was raped (possibly before death), and he was dismembered.

You keep mentioning that, do you have anything substantial to back it up, or is it just hearsay or your part?

That is the method they used to, as YOU say, “protest something they disagree with”.

Actually, I didn’t, you just show me a picture of (I’m assuming here) Middle-eastern protesters, and I didn’t really see any rockets.

Don’t pull that context shit in this argument,

Why not, because it’s applicable here? And yes, it is applicable here, because you gave me two pictures, and I responded to those two pictures, and now you’re creating a strawman (hyppocrite) that I’m argueing against the attack, when in reality I’m arguing against your use of pictures to “prove” a point. (Rather poorly, I might add, since the first picture is really vauge when you aren’t blinded by prejudice.)

Go ahead and argue that the embassies shouldn’t have been defended with lethal force. Go ahead. Or argue that they are somehow on equal ground as the US ambassador who was violently murdered. Go ahead. I love watching you be wrong, as you argue in defense for a group of people who would just as soon kill you as the ambassador. Go ahead.

No. I wont. Mostly because I was never planning on doing so, but instead argue against the knee-jerk reaction of “we must kill them” that’s surprisingly prevalent hre.

Fucking brilliant.

This is pure entertainment to me. Like watching a train full of human feces wreck into Rosie ODonnel. The pure shitty idiocy of the scene leaves me shocked and entertained, simultaneously. Idiots.

Yeah, you’re kind of an asshole like that. (And still very vague. You really have a problem with that.)

Originally posted by MyTie:

Actually, I don’t agree with the death penalty.

Well at least your views aren’t all hypocritical.

I don’t think government should decide when ending an individual’s life is a good cause.

… Never-mind.

 
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Self-defense is no problem. A guarded embassy to protect against terrorists is fine. The confusing issue was when you seemed to imply we should hunt the attackers down. If you argue only the former, then it was simply a miscommunication. If you still argue the latter, then this discussion isn’t over.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Self-defense is no problem. A guarded embassy to protect against terrorists is fine. The confusing issue was when you seemed to imply we should hunt the attackers down. If you argue only the former, then it was simply a miscommunication. If you still argue the latter, then this discussion isn’t over.

Self-defense against rioters and terrorist that hide themselves within demonstrations is generally a problem. A problem even specifically trained police with years of experience with demo/riot controlling can´t satisfactorily solve.

U.S. Marines have neither the experience nor the training for anything than MyTies: shot into the crowd and hope that makes them think twice. Exactly the behavior that is generally condemned when a nation does that against their own demonstrators and protesters, doing so from an embassy in a foreign cuntry will create even greater negative reactions.

 
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That’s a little limited of a view. Nobody should be shot unless it is absolutely certain the person is going to attack. If human meatshields are used, then shots should only be fired if nearly certain the attacker is the target. If there’s a crowd coming, then perhaps retreat to a spot where you know people aren’t allowed inside and warn them.

No situation is clear and easy to deal with. If there’s situations that can’t be handled, and it continues to be that way, then sure, you need a different approach. Removing the embassy entirely, for example.

 
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tenco:

Here’s the source on the “rape” allegation (WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES AND TEXT) http://vinienco.com/2012/09/17/rape-christopher-stevens-disturbing-video-warning/

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Self-defense is no problem. A guarded embassy to protect against terrorists is fine. The confusing issue was when you seemed to imply we should hunt the attackers down. If you argue only the former, then it was simply a miscommunication. If you still argue the latter, then this discussion isn’t over.

The problem isn’t that I feel that an action should be taken against the attackers. I believe it should, but I’m not sure what, if anything, CAN be done at this point, as Obama has fucked up so bad since before this started.

THE REAL PROBLEM I have here is that people keep marginalizing an attack on the US, because they don’t agree with all the US’s past actions. Imagine if the American people had sympathized with the Japanese immediately after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, because of the awful way the US treated blacks and native americans. We’d have been doomed as a country. That kind of “hate America first” mentality is going to fucking doom us.

Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Self-defense is no problem. A guarded embassy to protect against terrorists is fine. The confusing issue was when you seemed to imply we should hunt the attackers down. If you argue only the former, then it was simply a miscommunication. If you still argue the latter, then this discussion isn’t over.


Self-defense against rioters and terrorist that hide themselves within demonstrations is generally a problem. A problem even specifically trained police with years of experience with demo/riot controlling can´t satisfactorily solve.


U.S. Marines have neither the experience nor the training for anything than MyTies: shot into the crowd and hope that makes them think twice. Exactly the behavior that is generally condemned when a nation does that against their own demonstrators and protesters, doing so from an embassy in a foreign cuntry will create even greater negative reactions.

If it were known that our US Marines would take down large crowds that housed armed attackers, then large crowds would cease to form around US Marines. The only reason this happened is because we are perceived as weak, and those perceptions are accurate, due to the way that security and intelligence has been hamstrung by the Obama Administration. There was a day, not long ago, when people wouldn’t fucking dare attack a US Embassy.

 
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people keep marginalizing an attack on the US, because they don’t agree with all the US’s past actions.

Really? I’d say it’s more of an argument against what we thought was your suggestion instead of trying to laugh off an attack on America (or something similar). No country deserves to be attacked, and no individual should randomly suffer because of decisions made by others that look like them. Self-defense, individually or as a group, should always be allowed and when there are points that are prone to be attacked a defensive group should be stationed there. That’s all there is to it. No hunting or declaring war due to a few straggling terrorists.

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
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^ Um, wow. In before the removal.

 
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These words are light, compared to how I feel. My country was attacked. My representative murdered.

 
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MyTie does have a fixation for fresh poop doesn’t he? In every argumnt he’s comparing the other posters in the thread to it.

Also always willing to risk soldier and civilian lives at the drop of a hat. That’s a bit concerning for someone who claims they used to serve as in the army, as a demo expert. You would think someone like that would have more situational awareness and understanding of the difficulties involved in battlespace and near-battlespace environments.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:MyTie does have a fixation for fresh poop doesn’t he? In every argumnt he’s comparing the other posters in the thread to it.

I just noticed a lot of shitty arguments in this thread. Speaking of which:

Originally posted by vikaTae:Also always willing to risk soldier and civilian lives at the drop of a hat. That’s a bit concerning for someone who claims they used to serve as in the army, as a demo expert. You would think someone like that would have more situational awareness and understanding of the difficulties involved in battlespace and near-battlespace environments.

I wasn’t in the army, and I wasn’t a “demo expert”. I was in the Air Force, and I was a “weapons expert”. Big difference. And, even though I wasn’t ever in close combat, I understand the difficulties involved enough to know that the Marines should have ammo, and fire back at attackers. That’s fighting 101. That’s what I’m recommending. What would you do? Write the attackers an apology note, for being an insensitive society? Brilliant!

This is probably the easiest time in any debate I’ve ever had. I feel like Godzilla, only the buildings are all made of cards. As long as you guys keep defending terrorists, droning on about gentler warfare, and pining about how much you hate the US, I’m going to keep trouncing you. You have a choice, which is to wake up to the reality that there is a war happening, or keep looking foolish.

 
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Problem is nobody is defending terrorists. That’s all in your head. As usual you are ignoring other arguments, and instead replying to the ones in your imagination.

Hence your talent for constant strawmen.

 
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As long as you guys keep defending terrorists

This claim is unfounded and unsubstantiated. No one is “defending” terrorists.

However, what you fail to observe is that the United States commits its own acts of terrorism. Drone strikes and air strikes such as the 12 July 2007 Baghdad strikes [1, 2] are despicable acts of terrorism.

What both al-Qaeda and the United States Army have done in terms of terrorism is despicable. What you must remember, though, is that the quantity of dead civilians in the Iraq war numbers the tens of thousands; this is in comparison to the less than three thousand dead on the September 11 attacks. Both are despicable, however the latter are not more grave than the former. The former are often overlooked by the media as it would not generate nearly enough jingoism the United States wants in order to be able to keep on funding billions of daily dollars on death and wars.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

Problem is nobody is defending terrorists. That’s all in your head. As usual you are ignoring other arguments, and instead replying to the ones in your imagination.

Hence your talent for constant strawmen.

Uhm, no. Here’s one example of dark marginalizing terrorism:

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

I thought about explaining how killing the radicals who are killing, bombing, and vying for political power is a good thing

How does that make you any better than them?

Big O has fucked it up beyond fixing at this point.

I knew you were going to bring in a political campaign.

Also, a page back, I contrasted marines with terrorists, and showed the blatent difference, and tenco called it “propaganda”.

There were other examples, but the admins deleted them.

Point is, liberals actually rush to defend terrorists, or try to marginalize and minimalize their actions. I’m not making that up. It’s going on in this thread. People are explaining why the marines shouldn’t fire back (they might hurt civs). There is no strawmen. This is actually what people believe. Frankly, it’s, stupid.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

Problem is nobody is defending terrorists. That’s all in your head. As usual you are ignoring other arguments, and instead replying to the ones in your imagination.

Hence your talent for constant strawmen.

I agree with vika. She made a point about how you ignore other people’s posts. You replied to her saying you don’t, yet you completely ignored my post.

My post is essentially about the fact that the United States has committed its own acts of terrorism, although I believe people with ideologies such as yours will negate that at all costs.

 
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Originally posted by JaumeBG:
As long as you guys keep defending terrorists

This claim is unfounded and unsubstantiated. No one is “defending” terrorists.

However, what you fail to observe is that the United States commits its own acts of terrorism. Drone strikes and air strikes such as the 12 July 2007 Baghdad strikes [1, 2] are despicable acts of terrorism.

What both al-Qaeda and the United States Army have done in terms of terrorism is despicable. What you must remember, though, is that the quantity of dead civilians in the Iraq war numbers the tens of thousands; this is in comparison to the less than three thousand dead on the September 11 attacks. Both are despicable, however the latter are not more grave than the former. The former are often overlooked by the media as it would not generate nearly enough jingoism the United States wants in order to be able to keep on funding billions of daily dollars on death and wars.

Here we go. Great example. The US is painted as civilian bombing indiscriminate murderers, on par with Jihadist terrorists. In fact, the US gov is called terrorist in this. Here’s the base argument, just so you can’t say I’m strawmanning when I say that people attempt to marginalize the terrorist actions of Islamofacists.

The inadvertant and accidental collateral damage of civilians, caused by the United States, in an effort to rid the world of a violent and oppressive thug dictator, is put on the same level as a bunch of rampaging militant religious zealot thugs who rape, torture, and behead innocent civilians, intentionally, for no other reason than their victims don’t hold the same religion as they do. THIS is what people actually believe. THIS is what their actual arguments are. They have fallen in love with the hate America first bandwagon that they’ve completely checked out. Hitler and Eisenhower are the same, because German civilians died accidentally during allied bombings, and Hitler tortured and gassed millions of people. This is where it ends. Hate yourself so you can feel good at the end of the day. Forgive your enemies when they don’t ask for forgiveness, but instead actively find more ways to kill you. Don’t want our Marines to fire at attackers because there might be some IDIOT in the crowd who just showed up for the free donuts and coffee. This is the arguments, vika. I don’t have to strawman anything. I’m beating the holy hell out of the arguments as they stand. It’s too easy.

 
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Originally posted by JaumeBG:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

Problem is nobody is defending terrorists. That’s all in your head. As usual you are ignoring other arguments, and instead replying to the ones in your imagination.

Hence your talent for constant strawmen.

I agree with vika. She made a point about how you ignore other people’s posts. You replied to her saying you don’t, yet you completely ignored my post.

My post is essentially about the fact that the United States has committed its own acts of terrorism, although I believe people with ideologies such as yours will negate that at all costs.


Be patient, dude. Your post was less than a minute before mine, and I was busy typing. I read it, and replied to it. It ridiculous. You tried to say how the US military is on par with militant terrorist thugs who behead civilians, and use children as suicide bombers. I got around to addressing that little gem. Brilliant!
 
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Again you went with the strawman. I never said I agreed with terrorism or that I endorsed it. You are making that up.

 
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Yes. That sentence, the first one of the third paragraph: “What both al-Qaeda and the United States Army have done in terms of terrorism is despicable.” is the piece I am addressing. You are equivocating two completely different groups of people. One who inadvertently killed civilians, which was unintentional, and one which intentionally and indiscriminately slaughters innocents, including women and children, by the thousands, each year. You argument is, frankly, absurd. And, don’t tell me that I told you that you “agreed with terrorism or endorsed it”. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying you are equivocating these two very different groups, which, in effect, marginalizes one group, while at the same time casting undue blame on the other. Grow up, and get some perspective.

 
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You are equivocating two completely different groups of people.

No, I am not. I never said or implied they are the same or equivocating them. I am merely stating:
a) What al-Qaeda has done in terms of terrorism is despicable.
b) What the United States Army has done in terms of terrorism is despicable.

If you link those two as being the same, that is your own conclusion. I, however, have not explicitly or implicitly said such thing.

One who inadvertently killed civilians, which was unintentional, and one which intentionally and indiscriminately slaughters innocents, including women and children, by the thousands, each year.

I partially agree with the al-Qaeda part there. You, though, have not watched the videos I linked to—where the United States Army murders civilians and journalists. There is also evidence of how in 2004 the United States tortured people in Iraq [1, 2, 3].

What they have both done is horrifying. The United States, though, killed tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq for no real reason since al-Qaeda is based in Afghanistan/Pakistan.

 
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MyTie, I’d suggest a break from Kongregate to keep your emotions under control, but I’m sure that would trigger an even more hateful reply full of insults and strawmen. Seriously, I can’t even see your arguments between the masses of meaningless personal attacks, and I’m not sure if I want to. If you can’t argue without calling everyone an idiot every other sentence, then perhaps you’re better off somewhere else. Keep your head cool.

 
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I’m perfectly calm dude. Me calling for those who attack our consulate and embassy to receive return fire, or protesting the calling of the United States Army a terrorist group (fucking lol), and calling arguments to the contrary “idiotic” isn’t outside the realm of controlled emotions. I know it may seem crazy to you, but I think we should defend our country. Radical to your mind, I know. Just take a deep breath and try to comprehend how the US might not be the bad guys, and how the people running around beheading civs and using children as suicide bombers are the bad guys. This kind of thinking makes you nervous, I know. It’s just logic. You’ll get used to it, and who knows, maybe you’ll be logical one day too.