Is having sex at the age of 12 right page 4

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Originally posted by helltank:

I think that 12 year olds should only have sex if THEY USE PROTECTION. I mean, think about it. The age of consent is to prevent parents who are emotionally immature and cannot handle the responsibilities of having a child. If they use protection there will be no child, so…

That doesn’t make too much sense to me.
Sure, they should use protection if it happens like most people should if they’re just having sex for the purpose of having sex.
Most people who are 18 still can’t handle a child whatsoever. Yet alone at 16, because you don’t even have a chance at a reasonable job.

The only big thing that I see between the 12year olds going at it like rabbits and 18year olds is just that if anything happened the 18year old could just keep it under the wraps and abort the baby.
Well, then they can also have a job to support the baby.

So unless the age of consent is 22-25 to you, that doesn’t make too much sense to me.
I’m not saying 12year olds are emotionally mature or could handle a child 99% of the time, but 18year olds rarely are. Yet alone 16year olds like a lot of countries go by.

Originally posted by jhco50:

Some of the posters were just disgusting and in America would be imprisoned for being a pedophile. As you stated, children are children and need to be able to enjoy their childhood without the BS some on this forum propagate.

What I love about your post is you openly admit to saying you should throw someone in prison for a thought crime.
That sure does say a lot about you, not to mention what you claim America does, according to you. Which they don’t, but society does.

Then there’s you saying how children are children and that they should enjoy their childhood.
Yet childhood really is passed once someone is 12 most of the time. They are going through puberty.

Don’t you think “children are children and need to be able to enjoy their childhood” as you would say it, and that they should be able to “enjoy their childhood”?
Then why restrict them from what they naturally want to do with each other? You’re not letting them enjoy what you consider a childhood how they want to.

Then from what you say, you sound like a person who supports “Stranger danger” am I right?
Why are you making children cower in fear at friendly strangers feeding them propaganda that isn’t even true? You have to know most child abuse victims are abused by their family. Then again, you aren’t talking about children.

I might ask them how they feel about the little girl in Aurora, Colorado who was 12 years old on her way to school when some dipstick abducted her, raped her, and then mutilated her body before leaving her in an empty field.

So you do preach STRANGER DANGER, don’t you?
Ask who though? Anyone would think that’s wrong. Why? First she got murdered, not to mention raped.

Half of those cases you’re talking about wouldn’t end like that if we didn’t treat it the way we did.

Would that be ok in their delusional idea of sex with minors?

So you’re talking about pedophiles?
No, it’s not like just because someone is attracted to something means they support brutally killing it.
You’re much sicker than them if you think that.

The age of consent is to protect a child from predators who are screwed up in the head and prey on children to satisfy their odd idea of a sexual encounter.

Lets take this step by step.

The age of consent is to protect children from PREDATORS
Okay, that can be true.

They’re screwed up in the head.
We still aren’t talking about little kids so I don’t even see a single chance of any of this.
They’re screwed up because they are attracted to something that’s ready to produce? Sick fucks!
They’re screwed up because they don’t like what you like? Sick fucks!
They’re screwed up because they are attracted to something that the law doesn’t say is okay? Sick fucks!

They prey on children to satisfy their odd idea of sexual relations
It’s odd just because people don’t express their feelings!
It’s odd just because the law says it’s odd!

This logic is just awful. But aside from that, you say prey.
In your context it’s saying someone did something, right?
Before the act, there’s nothing being preyed on, so there’s no victim is there? Correct?

Satisfying their own odd idea, so these “children” that you’re talking about can’t feel anything?

I can honestly say, if I found out someone was stalking one of my grandchildren, this old dog would hunt.

We manly now.

And before you start accusing me of anything, I’m simply stating how I see it.
And well quite frankly I find your entire post disgusting and ridden with propaganda.
Your logic seems to be just because you don’t hear it means its odd, or just because someone thinks about something means they did it or will.
I bet you feel like killing people every once in awhile for one thing or another, but should you get the death penalty or life in prison for a thought crime?

We have laws about rape.
If a 15year old has sex with a 20year old, (s)he’d be jailed and be a sex offender even though most people are attracted to a developed 15year old.
The 15year old could of consented and liked it, but that doesn’t matter to the law.

Now if a 15year old was raped again his/her will by a 20year old, why yes that would be wrong and they should get “punished” somehow.
Just because someones below the magical number of 18 =/= they are a brainless pile of sticks waiting to be used

Originally posted by vikaTae:
It’s a way of proving when a given individual is ready for adulthood, as they have a brain capable of adult decision-making, rather than using an arbitrary law.

That’d be ideal, but for some reason we aren’t doing that now.
I’m sure we could, but we can’t always have the best solution now can we.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:

While it’s true that the child is too emotionally immature to handle being a parent, I think they’re also too emotionally immature at that age to handle having sex. It comes with it’s own set of “stuff”, some of which even adults have issues with. This may not be for all cultures, but in the U.S., certainly, 12 is still the age of being a child and coming into one’s own. It doesn’t need to be sullied and complicated with intimate relations.

Hmmmm…..interesting.

What I say below shouldn’t be taken so much as my beliefs (I’d hate for jake-o to send the thought police after me….lol),,,but taken more as tossing something into the discussion that is basically ignoring the 600 pound gorilla sitting on the sofa in the living room: M A T U R I T Y

Not only is there emotional maturity,,,
but, there is mental maturity,,,
and, we really need to toss in PHYSICAL maturity, too.

Very obviously the first two are going to be—FOR THE MOST PART—quite undeveloped in persons 12 years old. Obviously, as they live and expand their experiences, a widely & wildly varying degree//level of “maturity” is going to occur in different ppl.

This “expansion-of-maturity” is a lot like the curing of concret. Most of the strength of it (after the initial hydration of the mixture) is devleoped in the first 28 days. BUT, concret continues to harder the rest of its life (this part of a curve is inperceptiblely “flat” but still exists).

The analogy is shown that, during the “formative years” of a person, a whoooole lot is happening that is basically the greater maturing process. BUT, like concrete….maturing should be taking place the balance of a person’s life.

AND, we really alreadly pretty much are likely to agree that those formative years are different for each each individual…not all that much, but yet different because each individual is UNIQUE. For instance, a “general rule of thumb” is that girl “mature” sooner than boys. Also, that life-long maturing is gonna be quite different. The “bell-curve” is gonna apply there just as much as it does in those formative years.

As in many things in life, we need to refrain from being lulled into the prejudices of “generalizations”. We do it too much….mostly because it is sooo damn EASY. One doesn’t have to “dig to deep” into an issue to come up w/ enough data on which to “plow on forward”…often not even taking time to reassess as they go. I’m talking about what vika (and a few others?) is calling: the need for a case-by-case assessment for something as important as one sexuality.

Sadly, we end up basing our LAWS on these generalization and leave precious little “wiggle-room” for addressing the “flange areas” (extremes) of the bell curve. It is these areas, case-by-case assessment of maturity, that is essential because application of LAW is highly important due to the (usually?) severity of the punishments for infractions.

After all, isn’t most of what I’ve said above pretty much the various points already being discussed on this thread?

NOW, I want to touch on that third area I mentioned at the top: PHYSICAL maturity.
While “curiosity” about sex can happen at most any age BEFORE 12— the age usually considered, in general, the time when puberty begins. Puberty, for the most part, IS PHYSICAL….the good ol’ HORMONES kick in and sexual interest & “DRIVE” develops, most strongly in boys.

Obivously, we have now a “problem” on our hands. Not only has curiosity turned into high interest and drive, that little factor known as PREGNANCY is now very real. SO, some kind of “intervention” is very important…even ESSENTIAL if we want//expect rational, mature sexuality to develop in these young ppl. This essentiality is demonstrated by the LAWS we have regarding sexual behavior//activity of these very young sexual ppl. Obviously, one of the every strong reasons is the prevention of undesired pregnacies….which certainly will have a great impact on that person’s life.

Usually—and I can’t stress enough how USUALLY doesn’t cover the extremes of the bell-curve—a male will be sexually interested in ONLY the females that have developed enough changes in her body (physical maturing) to be “attention grabing”,,,(the bigger the boobs, the more attention paid). As in fully matured adults, young females usually DO NOT HAVE the same drive//interest in the male as is the other-way-’round.

Speaking of attention being paid to a “well-developed” early teen female, let’s talk about how the adult male reacts. Haven’t we heard, regarding this “phenomenon” as: Look but don’t touch? This is may be “okay” for general, unregulated (laws), male “bull sessions”…BUT, law sez viewing women under the age of 18 is pretty damn “nasty” and very, VERY stiff (lol…STIFFY) penalties are applied.

Yet, young “women” are PHYSICALLY developing much sooner than when these laws were made. AND, a great “relaxing” of “moral code” regarding how “alluringly sexy” (go to any water park & take a good look) these young-but-well-deveolped women DRESS certainly doesn’t help men to not notice…ergo, having a “sexual response”….hopefully, just an “interest”. Please work at understanting this point: INEREST DOES NOT EQUATE AS INTENT.

On the note of sexual drive, one of our own members here has stated that he “waited until marriage” (though not told his age at that time) to have sex w/ his bride. One might well wonder how this is accomplished by the public at large….how much of such things are affected by a bell-curve of "mental-fortitude-of-restraint vs.a lower hormonal drive….or are there other factors involved in such behavior and could there be a comination of all of them contributing to an abiltiy to postpone such sexaul activity w/ this specific (fiancee) person and also the general viginal-abstenence of “waiting until married” for sexual activity….even though (usually) well past the basic, full development of “sexual maturity”.

Sorry about all of the mispelling….sometime “spell-chick” is on coffee break.

 
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Originally posted by Zachary_Greene:
Originally posted by vikaTae:
It’s a way of proving when a given individual is ready for adulthood, as they have a brain capable of adult decision-making, rather than using an arbitrary law.

That’d be ideal, but for some reason we aren’t doing that now.
I’m sure we could, but we can’t always have the best solution now can we.

Optogenetics is capable of doing that, but the interface method is very immature, and not currently used clinically. It’s still at the ‘being tested on mice’ stage. In addition we don’t have all the neural codes required for that part of the human brain, yet. They’ll be the same across individuals (within tolerance) but we need to learn to recognise what they are first.

Right now, it is very much like trying to program an API without any documentation as to what the names of the function calls are, or what parameters they take. It will take time to work out what the codes are.

It is an option for how we an tell going forwards. Once we can do that reliably, then we can begin to fight to change the law, to recognise that method.

 
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I might ask them how they feel about the little girl in Aurora, Colorado who was 12 years old on her way to school when some dipstick abducted her, raped her, and then mutilated her body before leaving her in an empty field. Would that be ok in their delusional idea of sex with minors?

uhm…yeah. if you go from 12 year olds having sex with eachother to this, you may just as well go from hugging a child to this. creepy stuff.

Originally posted by helltank:

jhco, do you really think the age of consent is to protect from sexual predators? Please. We have rape laws for that.

age of consent is essentially statutory rape laws.

 
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I might ask them how they feel about the little girl in Aurora, Colorado who was 12 years old on her way to school when some dipstick abducted her, raped her, and then mutilated her body before leaving her in an empty field. Would that be ok in their delusional idea of sex with minors?

You subjective moralists have to admit, it wouldn’t be “bad”. I think it’s wrong, heinous, and horribly wrong, but then again, I believe in silly things like “God”.

 
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^your record is stuck, MyTie. for days now, you seem unable to say anything else but repeatedly saying how clearly horrible things disprove subjective morality, and somehow bring God into the whole thing, which i entirely don’t understand why.

what is it exactly that you’re trying to say?

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
I might ask them how they feel about the little girl in Aurora, Colorado who was 12 years old on her way to school when some dipstick abducted her, raped her, and then mutilated her body before leaving her in an empty field. Would that be ok in their delusional idea of sex with minors?

I think most people would agree that this was a heinous act all around; that happened not to far from where I live and I am so glad it appears they have found and apprehended someone. To add onto karma’s comment about physical maturity—part of the reason this is so disturbing is because she was physically immature and by no means ready for this. If an adult female has sex, it might be uncomfortable the first and second time. If a young girl like this has sex, it can be physically damaging.

Not only that, but this kidnapped girl really was not physically capable of defending herself from such an attack, or at least, at a greater disadvantage than I would have been. I could have much more easily whaled on his rape attempt, being roughly the abductor’s size, age, and muscle mass.

 
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For species that mature at that age and are supposed to, like small dogs, yes. For humans, no.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by MyTie:
I might ask them how they feel about the little girl in Aurora, Colorado who was 12 years old on her way to school when some dipstick abducted her, raped her, and then mutilated her body before leaving her in an empty field. Would that be ok in their delusional idea of sex with minors?

I think most people would agree that this was a heinous act all around; that happened not to far from where I live and I am so glad it appears they have found and apprehended someone. To add onto karma’s comment about physical maturity—part of the reason this is so disturbing is because she was physically immature and by no means ready for this. If an adult female has sex, it might be uncomfortable the first and second time. If a young girl like this has sex, it can be physically damaging.

Not only that, but this kidnapped girl really was not physically capable of defending herself from such an attack, or at least, at a greater disadvantage than I would have been. I could have much more easily whaled on his rape attempt, being roughly the abductor’s size, age, and muscle mass.

You misattributed the quote.

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

^your record is stuck, MyTie. for days now, you seem unable to say anything else but repeatedly saying how clearly horrible things disprove subjective morality, and somehow bring God into the whole thing, which i entirely don’t understand why.

what is it exactly that you’re trying to say?

It’s scummy to condemn stuff as wrong when you’re basing wrong on opinion. This is a SD forum, a forum for debate. It’s impossible to debate the merits of anything when we can’t even all agree that there is anything to “merit” besides opinion. This is a foundational concept, and without it, everything else collapses.

 
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^lol. good point. agreed.

 
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Everyone supporting a 12 year old having sex is a pedophile.

 
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You subjective moralists have to admit, it wouldn’t be “bad”.

You obviously still don’t understand how subjective morality works.

I think it’s wrong, heinous, and horribly wrong

Yes, you do, and many agree with that. You seem to be under the illusion that once you acknowledge people have different viewpoints every thing you find horrible actually shouldn’t be horrible for you.

It’s impossible to debate the merits of anything when we can’t even all agree that there is anything to “merit” besides opinion. This is a foundational concept, and without it, everything else collapses.

?

This is opinion, to most of us. In fact, the reason why we wouldn’t be able to discuss this is because you follow the objective morality system (and automatically condemn certain issues without arguing why) and we argue our own viewpoints (most of us still condemn the issue, but bring up actual points about it).

I’m not sure why Omega agreed with you on the latter. He’s right that you’re a stuck record. You keep on intruding into the discussion talking about subjective morality, but it doesn’t really help the discussion forward. Perhaps you could bring this to the other thread?

 
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well, i wasn’t sure which form of moral subjectivism he kept talking about. i’’ll remind you i agree with one, and oppose the other.

i like his main point:

It’s impossible to debate the merits of anything when we can’t even all agree that there is anything to “merit” besides opinion

he’s clearly talking about Moral Relativism, and that actually is my objection to Moral Relativism as well. why debate what is the right position or course of action on anything, if it’s all mere relative opinions that are all true but only from the reference frame of the individual?

i guess you could make an argument involving something like ethical democracy, but for that to have any merit would already defeat Moral Relativism, at least in pure form.

but enough about that. this is not the thread for that.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
I might ask them how they feel about the little girl in Aurora, Colorado who was 12 years old on her way to school when some dipstick abducted her, raped her, and then mutilated her body before leaving her in an empty field. Would that be ok in their delusional idea of sex with minors?

You subjective moralists have to admit, it wouldn’t be “bad”. I think it’s wrong, heinous, and horribly wrong, but then again, I believe in silly things like “God”.

LOL,,,MyTie.
YOU are working overtime and very hard to make your point hold water.
Guess what?
Your point is so full of very obvious holes that it can’t even hold my attention.
Guess what?
Strrreeeetttccchhhiinnngggg your point to the limits of credulity doesn’t make those holes any smaller….quite the opposite.
Final LOL

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Your point is so full of very obvious holes that it can’t even hold my attention.

There is a fairly obvious snark here about MyTie and a hol(e)y point.

 
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Zachary, I will direct this at you, but everyone should understand this. Posters love to compare us to animals and wonder why we don’t act like animals. Well, we aren’t animals in the respect we are supposed to have reason. I realize there are a lot of young people and some posters who are really out there. We protect our children until they are 18 years old. That is the age we feel they have gathered enough sense to start acting like adults. At 21 we release them into the world. But these young people aren’t completely matured even at 21. Some are, some aren’t. We expect to protect our children from adult things like sex until they are matured, mentally, physically, and emotionally. I am not going to sit here and listen to people who want to exploit my/our children for their own obscure desires. To even suggest that a 12 year old has any of the above attributes is idiocy.

So let me leave your steps out and ask you straight out. If you are attracted to a 12 year old girl, are you not able to control your urges? Apparently not. You know, being able to control your urges is part of being mature.

And Vika, you and your we can check the brain for the maturity for sex is nothing more than diarrhea of the mouth. For you to even come up with something like this tells me reams about your own personal life. In America, we do and have prosecuted people for having an unusual desire for children. Even at the age of 16-18 we have prosecuted teachers who have this strange affliction. Your suggestion that it is ok to be intimate with a 12 year old is ludicrous.

For everyone’s information, they caught the person who raped and killed the little girl in Aurora, Colorado. He is 17 years old and a high school student. He can’t get the death penalty, but can get life in prison. Law enforcement is guarding his house and have him protected while in jail. Even criminals won’t put up with his kind of crime.

 
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Jhco, ignoring all posts explaining him there’s a difference between two people of 12 years old having sex and an adult having sex with a person of 12 years old, and arguing the latter is so wrong. I really don’t think there’s many supporters for the latter, but there’s more supporters for the former. The only argument you make against the former is that “they’re not ready”, which is the legal way out. I support the fact that we simply do not allow people of that young to have legal consent, because it’s too hard and costly to find out whether or not a person has the mind of a person of 18 years old (legal age), but I also support allowing people of, for example, around the age of 15 to have sex with people of their age.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50: Posters love to compare us to animals and wonder why we don’t act like animals.

We don’t?

 
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This isn’t being argued as to 12 year old’s having sex, it has expanded with some posters ideas of 12 year old girls being of breeding age and one poster suggesting we can measure brain functions to determine ability to breed. Let’s say two 12 year old’s have sex and the girls father catches them. I’m willing to bet we might be short one teenage boy. At the very least the boys father will get an ars kicking. This comes of our our desire to protect our girls (especially) from any kind of predator, be it a 17 year old or a 12 year old boy.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

And Vika, you and your we can check the brain for the maturity for sex is nothing more than diarrhea of the mouth. For you to even come up with something like this tells me reams about your own personal life.

Hey, knock it all you like. The science is sound, and it would work. Detection of maturity of thought, based on a confirmation of the adult brain structures having formed. The only reason we have the 16/18/21 age laws is because we can’t tell when a given individual actually matures. This would do away with the need for a blanket age, and when an individual is ready, they are ready.

In America, we do and have prosecuted people for having an unusual desire for children.

Newsflash: Most of the civilised world prosecutes pedophiles. It’s not a legal innovation restricted solely to America.

Your suggestion that it is ok to be intimate with a 12 year old is ludicrous.

Please do point out where I said anything of the sort. No, really. Please do. Considering the required structures only start to form at around age 12, and aren’t usually complete until several years later, that will be a significant challenge for you to find.

Good hunting.


EDIT:

Originally posted by jhco50:

Posters love to compare us to animals and wonder why we don’t act like animals.

We don’t act like animals? That’s a puzzling statement, considering we are animals.

Class: Mammalia, Order: Primate, Family: Hominidae, Genus: Homo, Species: Sapiens.

That animal be us.


Originally posted by jhco50:

one poster suggesting we can measure brain functions to determine ability to breed.

No, you muppet. We measure brain functions to check for maturation into adulthood. An adult brain means an adult mind. In every measurable respect an adult. If it becomes routine to check for that, then the laws will change to reflect that.

The moment you gain a functional adult brain, you should become a legal adult. that’s all I was saying. Not what you’re claiming I was saying, which is something along the lines of “as soon as they become adult, they should have a dick shoved in them”. That’s simply not how the world works, Jhco.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
The age of consent is to protect a child from predators who are screwed up in the head and prey on children to satisfy their odd idea of a sexual encounter. I can honestly say, if I found out someone was stalking one of my grandchildren, this old dog would hunt.

Yeah…the problem here is that most of the time (if not all) people aren’t aware of who is stalking their child or who the predators are. That is why the tips/participation from the community, coupled with law enforcement efforts, are so important.

I think the jist of the thread though, is the discussion of relations between children of a fairly young (12) age.

 
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Originally posted by NintenCROW:

Everyone supporting a 12 year old having sex is a pedophile.

Even those who don’t like feet?

I don’t think people here are arguing that they personally should be allowed to have sex with 12 year olds, I think the debate is if 12 year olds should have sex with other 12 year olds.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

This isn’t being argued as to 12 year old’s having sex, it has expanded with some posters ideas of 12 year old girls being of breeding age and one poster suggesting we can measure brain functions to determine ability to breed. Let’s say two 12 year old’s have sex and the girls father catches them. I’m willing to bet we might be short one teenage boy. At the very least the boys father will get an ars kicking. This comes of our our desire to protect our girls (especially) from any kind of predator, be it a 17 year old or a 12 year old boy.

wow. i’m sorry but that’s horribly sexist. in fact, girls mature physically a little earlyer than boys, so technically it would be more likely the initiative came from her.

seriously, that is disturbingly sexist. even from you.

and the solutions are also very disturbing. either murder of a child, or beating up the boys dad? what the hell’s wrong with you?

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I am not going to sit here and listen to people who want to exploit my/our children for their own obscure desires. To even suggest that a 12 year old has any of the above attributes is idiocy.

A 12 year old can have these attributes, maybe not physically to your liking, but your liking doesn’t set the standard.
It’s rare though, but it can happen.
Just as you said about older ages, some are and some aren’t. It’s that simple.

Then I see you’re assuming I or possibly vika wants to exploit children.
But why? Even if that was true, even people who exploit children don’t want to exploit them. Most rather have it completely fine and consensual and “fun” for both parties as many say.

So let me leave your steps out and ask you straight out. If you are attracted to a 12 year old girl, are you not able to control your urges? Apparently not. You know, being able to control your urges is part of being mature.

Of course you’re able to control your argues.
Do you see 12-year olds even attempting to rape what they like? Be it kids, teenagers or adults?
Do you see 29year olds even attempting to rape what they like? Be it kids, teenagers or adults?

Both can control their urges, and yes there are tons of 12year olds having urges and are attracted to many things.
Some don’t, and they are usually fairly insane.

In America, we do and have prosecuted people for having an unusual desire for children.

Which is one reason why I dislike America even more.
Other countries do it also, but they are rarely as fierce with it.

You’re once again saying you should punish thought crimes as well as something someone can’t control even if they don’t ever act on it or do anything wrong.
This logic, it’s crazy.

Even at the age of 16-18 we have prosecuted teachers who have this strange affliction.

Which is stupid isn’t it?
Most 17year olds that are about to graduate sure could consent just as much as the average 18year old.
But those few days or months makes a difference for some reason.

18-19year olds still get teachers arrested and charged, so the age doesn’t even matter does it?

Let’s say two 12 year old’s have sex and the girls father catches them. I’m willing to bet we might be short one teenage boy. At the very least the boys father will get an ars kicking. This comes of our our desire to protect our girls (especially) from any kind of predator, be it a 17 year old or a 12 year old boy.

That’s just simply showing how fathers don’t want their little girl to start having sex.
Even when there’s a nice guy involved a lot still don’t like it.

Be the girl 21, 15 or even 12.
The reason why it doesn’t happen as much when the girls older is simply because she’s labeled as a adult, as well as her dad doesn’t walk in/known about it directly most of the time.
Sure, you might know it’s happening, but you haven’t seen it.

And no one ever said the tests could determine the ability to breed, it’s just simply to show how mature someone is.
Even though a 9year old may have the maturity of a 30year old doesn’t mean they can now breed.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Zachary, I will direct this at you, but everyone should understand this.

Well, coming from YOU…this won’t be a given. lol

Posters love to compare us to animals and wonder why we don’t act like animals.

THAT makes no sense whatsoever. Many poster do say that we are animals. One even went so far as to describe the levels of the Kingdom. We certainly do have many ACTions in common.

Well, we aren’t animals in the respect we are supposed to have reason.

And then, there is YOU. Hell, my dogs are able to reason. I’ll put my dogs up against most 3 y.o.’s in this respect.

I realize there are a lot of young people and some posters who are really out there.

Out where? Are ya sure ya’re “realizing” correctly? There is some disagreement on this.

We protect our children until they are 18 years old. That is the age we feel they have gathered enough sense to start acting like adults. At 21 we release them into the world.

YOUR “math” is a bit “fuzzy”.
AND, it is so subjective to the point of being a frog’s hair away from zilch.

But these young people aren’t completely matured even at 21. Some are, some aren’t.

And then,,,we have ppl that apparenly NEVER attain “maturity”…>wink< >wink<.

We expect to protect our children from adult things like sex until they are matured, mentally, physically, and emotionally.

Your point—other than the vary obvious—IS?
I offer that SOME parents sooooo “protect” their children from “sex” that when a girl starts menses or a boy has a “wet dream”,,,they think their body is falling apart. Chew on THAT.

I am not going to sit here and listen to people who want to exploit my/our children for their own obscure desires.

Then “stand”. While doing so, ya might actually try to understand what ppl are saying. One thing for sure that they ARE NOT SAYING is that they “have an interest in exploiting children for their own obscure desires”.

That YOU actually believe such a thing tells me that either YOUR “imagination” is working overtime,,,OR, that your paranoia is.

To even suggest that a 12 year old has any of the above attributes is idiocy.

What “attributes”? Where “attributes”? When “attributes”? Who “attributes”? Clarity, man, CLARITY….it sure helps a lot.

So let me leave your steps out and ask you straight out.

What “steps”? Where “steps”? Clarify…man, clarify.

If you are attracted to a 12 year old girl, are you not able to control your urges? Apparently not. You know, being able to control your urges is part of being mature.

I guess ya’re just unable to process what I meant when I said: INTEREST IS NOT INTENT. Nor should interest be uncotrolable….how inane. Where do YOU come up w/ this crap? Just because it likely exists in the real world, why-oh-why do ya think we here are all prime representatives of it?
{{edited for clarity}} And Vika, you and your “we-can-check-the-brain-for-the-maturity-for-sex” is nothing more than diarrhea of the mouth. For you to even come up with something like this tells me reams about your own personal life.

Where-oh-where do YOU come up w/ this crap? I freely admit that a lot of what vika brings to our table is quite esoteric in the scientific fields and won’t be fully understood by most of us. BUT, this doesn’t meant that it is any less valid for being so. On the other hand, as YOUR post here quite well demonstrates, what YOU bring to this forum is very often highly “diarrhea and speaks of the entire paper mill about YOUR own personal life”….eh? Yeah, I know…my version of Pot-Kettle-Black…lol

BUT, seriously…why are YOU so “quick-on-the-trigger” to so harshly criticise that which ya very likely don’t even grasp? Ya do know there is a name for such ppl….I can’t think of it right now,,,,but I’ll get back to ya when I can AND if I still care….LOL.

However, it certainly does appear to be the ol’: Square-peg-in-a-round-hole. YOU severely attack (attempt to carve up the square peg) that which doesn’t fit YOUR OWN PERSONAL IDOLOGY (round hole) and expect us to accept it wholesale and are indignantly “surprised” when we do and accuse us of stalking ya around the forum and other insults—both via inuendo & openly.

In America, we do and have prosecuted people for having an unusual desire for children.

NO…we haven’t become the thought police. Your paranoia about “them commin’ for mah guns” is now being manifested as being “let’s go git them dirty-minded sickos”.

What we do is: prosecute them when they ACT UPON THOSE DESIRES. know the difference, learn it, live it.

Even at the age of 16-18 we have prosecuted teachers who have this strange affliction.

ONLY IF THEY WERE MINORS. Know it, learn it, live it. Do away w/ the stinkin’ thinkin’ that originates where vika mentions in another thread. lol

Your suggestion that it is ok to be intimate with a 12 year old is ludicrous.

Okay…such is YOUR opinion.
YET, as per YOUR usual hyperbole…ya lump ALL OF OUR PRESENTATIONS to be seen as YOUR simple sentence there. THAT is what is ludicrous.

For everyone’s information, they caught the person who raped and killed the little girl in Aurora, Colorado. He is 17 years old and a high school student. He can’t get the death penalty, but can get life in prison. Law enforcement is guarding his house and have him protected while in jail. Even criminals won’t put up with his kind of crime.

While in the “ballpark”—only in comparison of ages, both of which are above 12—tell us what rape has to do w/ all or any of the many points being made about consentual sex? Plus, just to shed a weeeebit of light on the age thing here for ya….from 10 to 14, a whooole lot of change happens. know it, learn it, live it.