Why not suicide?

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Before we get into it, I would like to point out that I do not believe in any religion. Also, do not try to convince me of your religious views (I mean you can but I won’t believe you) but rather try to walk through the following idea with logic. Enough with the disclaimers, let’s move on.

What is the purpose to life?

I firmly believe there is no purpose to life. Why? Because there is absolutely nothing that is permanent. Once you are dead, everything you have achieved, attained, aspired for, etc. is all meaningless. Even if you are the greatest human alive and cured world hunger, brought world peace, and forever go down in history, your life is still temporary. In fact, the lives of everyone you helped change is also temporary and, therefore, puproseless. Everything you do is without purpose. Even the pursuit of knowledge. Why pursue knowledge when you will eventually die and all that you have pursued is meaningless? Even the greatest scientists such as Newton, Einstein, whatever have helped humans realize the functions of the world, yes. But they are dead now and everyone who learns and expands on their studies will also die. In fact, our time is so limited in this universe that it won’t even matter that they have made such contribution in the vast scheme of the universal “cycle” (if you will). This purposelessness of life forces only one inevitable outcome: suicide. Because why struggle to live when there is one outcome of death? Why do you live for? Everything is so temporary. You can love, be happy, be rich, travel the world, etc but you will eventually die and all that you have done is pointless and meaningless.

Some say to make your own purpose in life. But if life is purposeless in the first place, the so called purpose you have made for a purposeless idea is pretty purposeless in itself (in other words the purpose you made for life isn’t very helpful if you are going to be dead in the end).

If life is a game, why not end it early?

Note that I do not encourage anyone to suicide but rather am trying to find logical answers to my own problems (so to speak). Please don’t do: “don’t suicide you have people who love you!” kind of bullcrap.

 
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yes, that’s why only the permanent things you leave behind are important. you can leave a permanent mark on reality by changing the mind of the populous.

humans won’t necessarily die out any time soon. it is possible we will be interstellar in the future, exploring and colonizing the galaxy, perhaps competing or associating with other interstellar alien life-forms.

it is our attitudes that we will have in the future towards all of the rest of the universe that can have a significant effect in the big picture of time and space. it’s very far removed from us right now right here, and there’s no way to know that remote goal even exists because we won’t know we’ll ever get there, but we might.

so yes, that’s what i had once figured i’d shoot for, for lack of any other target that matters. but then i figured “fuck it. humans suck. i’ll just live for me”.

i’ll die one day, my life will have meant nothing no matter how hard i try, unless i somehow manage to make the human species into a better species which i just don’t feel like trying (‘cause fuck humans). but i don’t care, i can still live for me while my life is here.

 
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Why are you even trying then? Just curious. Seems like you already realized the meaninglessness of your life (and life in general perhaps) and the inevitably of death. So why struggle to live?

 
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Once you are dead, everything you have achieved, attained, aspired for, etc. is all meaningless.

No it isn’t, as stated by your next sentence.

Even if you are the greatest human alive and cured world hunger, brought world peace, and forever go down in history, your life is still temporary.

But the legacy can live on for a very long time.

In fact, the lives of everyone you helped change is also temporary and, therefore, puproseless.

That’s a non sequitur. Temporary does not mean purposeless.

Everything you do is without purpose.

You will need to expand on that greatly even to begin to convince me that you’re not talking utter bollocks.

In fact, our time is so limited in this universe that it won’t even matter that they have made such contribution in the vast scheme of the universal “cycle”

I accept that this universe will cease to be able to support our kind of life while, in terms of its own projected lifetime, it is still in its infancy. But why does that matter. In the billions of years still available to us and our successors, we may find the secret of moving to a different, younger universe. In which case all will not have been in vain.

You can love, be happy, be rich, travel the world, etc but you will eventually die and all that you have done is pointless and meaningless.

How much more do you want? That’s enough for most of us. I’m more than a little suspicious that this is no more than a bit of teenage angst, and not really a serious discussion at all.

 
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Well I’ll admit this is a rather childish perspective, indeed. Let me try to clarify my points.

Legacies can go on for a very long time, yes. But will that even remotely matter once you are dead? You do not have the ability to care or to even know that you will become a “leagcy”. In fact, I argued that the so called legacy you pass down to future of mankind will essentially also be meaningless because those people will also die.

I mean temporary in sense that because you will die (and the people you helped change will also die), it is eventually worthless.

Even if you do “move to a new universe”, unless that universe creates a way to make your life infinite, it will also be in vain (because you will die).

 
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Originally posted by Thatsomegoodname:

Why are you even trying then? Just curious. Seems like you already realized the meaninglessness of your life (and life in general perhaps) and the inevitably of death. So why struggle to live?

yeah i’ve reached the same conclusion before, i know exactly what you mean. you could try to aim for that faint possibility of leaving some permanent mark by changing the human species into a better species in it’s manner of conduct towards the universe, but that’s a very big thing to shoot for and humans…well, i’ve kinda given up on them.

but you can also forget the whole thing and live your life for your life itself. accept the utter insignificance of your existence, and basically adopt hedonism as a creed instead. not for any reason other than there’s nothing better to do anyway.

living can be a struggle, but there’s no reason to starve in the Western world, and i don’t care at all about any kind of status or socio-economic rank or anything like that, because as you should also realise both shame and pride are pointless. so really, as there’s in this point in my life no inherent reason to suffer (no chronic pains or stuff like that), i satisfy myself with absolutely nothing and ride out my life for the scenery. anything beyond nothing is a bonus.

it’s kinda boring but nothing else is less pointless (everything else is equally pointless), so i accept the lack of any better option. suicide certainly doesn’t serve any better purpose, besides it’s quite painful, messy, far too much of a hassle…why bother with that? if i want to die i don’t have to help it, death is inevitable anyway.

plus, who knows if there’s some slim chance that something i end up doing is significant in the big scheme of everything. especially considering Chaos Theory.

maybe i help someone somewhere down my life, that ends up better able to help someone else, that…. perhaps this can all propogate to end up leaving this sginificant mark on reality as the course of everything progresses far into the future. i don’t know how long humans will or won’t last.

especially if i have children someday, perhaps. that is always a life-goal and career prospect. be the best parent you can, so they can propogate whatever positive you can effect, which can repropogate further until infinity, or the end of time. (but you don’t need to have children for that)

 
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Ok thank you for your post omega made me think alot. Certainly made some good points on living.

 
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Alot of very early video games didn’t have an ‘end’, they just got harder and harder till you died. The point of playing them was to just enjoy the experience while it happened. There is a metaphor for life in there somewhere.

Just because there isn’t a point to something or it is temporary doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy it while it’s there. I play tug with my dog, I play fetch with him, it makes no meaningful difference to the world but I enjoy it and he seems to.

As life is temporary and you only get one go there is really no sense in cutting it shorter than it already is. Don’t watch TV and expect to be some great person history will remember, just look for how you can enjoy what you do have in your life instead of expecting everything

 
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It’s the ride, man….THE RIDE.
We all are different vehicles on different routes to the same destination.
We even like to try various routes….super highways, shaded lanes, off-roading, race tracks.
Some of us are Mac Trucks, other a Prius, some a “muscle car”, some a "soccer-mon SUV .
Some of are "multi-drivers.
Some like company….others don’t.
Some like road rage….others cause it…some just enjoy the ride,,,regardless.

What purpose is it to get on a roller coaster?
It brings ya right back to where ya started.
Guess what…if ya liked it….DO IT AGAIN.
Ya just might find out ya like puking yer guts out cuz it was soooo scary.

dum vivimus vivamus

“Touch” as much as ya can in/of life.
Make every second count….in some way or another.
Look for that obtuse, hidden, obscure, confounding moment that so vexes ya that ya just have to KNOW that ya are alive and still “kickin’ it” in spite of (or because of?) the adversities therein.

 
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Originally posted by Thatsomegoodname:

Before we get into it, I would like to point out that I do not believe in any religion. Also, do not try to convince me of your religious views (I mean you can but I won’t believe you) but rather try to walk through the following idea with logic. Enough with the disclaimers, let’s move on.

What is the purpose to life?

I firmly believe there is no purpose to life. Why? Because there is absolutely nothing that is permanent. Once you are dead, everything you have achieved, attained, aspired for, etc. is all meaningless. Even if you are the greatest human alive and cured world hunger, brought world peace, and forever go down in history, your life is still temporary. In fact, the lives of everyone you helped change is also temporary and, therefore, puproseless. Everything you do is without purpose. Even the pursuit of knowledge. Why pursue knowledge when you will eventually die and all that you have pursued is meaningless? Even the greatest scientists such as Newton, Einstein, whatever have helped humans realize the functions of the world, yes. But they are dead now and everyone who learns and expands on their studies will also die. In fact, our time is so limited in this universe that it won’t even matter that they have made such contribution in the vast scheme of the universal “cycle” (if you will). This purposelessness of life forces only one inevitable outcome: suicide. Because why struggle to live when there is one outcome of death? Why do you live for? Everything is so temporary. You can love, be happy, be rich, travel the world, etc but you will eventually die and all that you have done is pointless and meaningless.

Some say to make your own purpose in life. But if life is purposeless in the first place, the so called purpose you have made for a purposeless idea is pretty purposeless in itself (in other words the purpose you made for life isn’t very helpful if you are going to be dead in the end).

If life is a game, why not end it early?

Note that I do not encourage anyone to suicide but rather am trying to find logical answers to my own problems (so to speak). Please don’t do: “don’t suicide you have people who love you!” kind of bullcrap.

Life is NOT a game. That’s for sure.

I’m sorry to use the word gift, but if you are in good health and you are not starving well life is truly a gift.. so as the user dd790 said, there is no reason to waste it, or anticipate the conclusion.

 
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you are right when you say there is no purpose to life. That’s true but the journey is the destination. when i think of the impermanence of life i also think of how grateful i am to have an opportunity to exist, and to have a chance at enjoying life as much as i can. I also think of the year 1890 when i wasn’t even alive. i know that death will be just like that, so knowing that there is no central purpose to life and there is no afterlife, it only makes me want to enjoy life even more. To help people, to laugh and all that good stuff!

 
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i agree with the knife grinder. life is not a game even though society turns it into one. everywhere you look you see competition. competition for jobs, money, cars, power, and women. all of these things make life seem like some sort of game that isn’t worth playing if the money and girls isn’t enough for you.

 
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There’s no reason not to kill yourself; unless you think that staying alive will contain more ‘good’ than ‘bad’. If you think it will contain more ‘bad’ than ‘good’; then you’d probably be better off committing suicide.

After all, you’ll never regret it.

 
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Sorry you feel that way. But Suicide is the cowards way out, for people who can’t deal with the world. That’s all I have to say to you.

 
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That’s a non-argument.

 
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Well, there is no such thing as an ‘objective’ or ‘inherent’ purpose, since the idea of purpose itself is dependent on some sort of sentient being that is directing something towards a goal. So saying there is no purpose would be like saying there is no goal worth striving towards—that there is nothing that is truly valuable to us in any way. But here I would disagree. The subjective experience of happiness is undeniably good—it is ‘goodness’ itself, the only thing with any real value. The fact that you will eventually die isn’t significant—isn’t 50+ years of enjoyment and happiness better than none? Isn’t a single moment of happiness better than none? So ultimately the only goal worth working towards is that of living your life in a manner that best makes yourself and others happy.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

It’s the ride, man….THE RIDE.
We all are different vehicles on different routes to the same destination.
We even like to try various routes….super highways, shaded lanes, off-roading, race tracks.
Some of us are Mac Trucks, other a Prius, some a “muscle car”, some a "soccer-mon SUV .
Some of are "multi-drivers.
Some like company….others don’t.
Some like road rage….others cause it…some just enjoy the ride,,,regardless.

What purpose is it to get on a roller coaster?
It brings ya right back to where ya started.
Guess what…if ya liked it….DO IT AGAIN.
Ya just might find out ya like puking yer guts out cuz it was soooo scary.

dum vivimus vivamus

“Touch” as much as ya can in/of life.
Make every second count….in some way or another.
Look for that obtuse, hidden, obscure, confounding moment that so vexes ya that ya just have to KNOW that ya are alive and still “kickin’ it” in spite of (or because of?) the adversities therein.

why do something when its not going to matter?
why continue life if there will never be a purpose?

its like throwing a rock into a pond when you try to fix a pc. what will throwing a rock into a pond help you when it comes to fixing pc’s?

everyone that says “you should enjoy life while you have it” are a bunch of agnostics or theists.

but if you really want to know the answer to this question, then you need to come onto my level of intellect.
everything is collisions, we are not people. its all just one big sandbox of collisions. we do not posses the ability to worry about the afterlife, since we are not people. everything have a calculation and thus we do not have choice or exist in terms of being humans with choices. so, there is no point in living or dying, since we cant do either.

 
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^ Just because things are determined doesn’t mean we don’t influence our own path. The brain itself is part of what determines what happens to the brain in the future, and our consciousness arises from that brain. So striving to change oneself is the equivalent of the brain altering itself in order to form a state that equates to greater happiness. As a consciousness yourself, you have choice. The choosing process itself just happens to be determined as well. Determinism is an interesting philosophical idea, but it has few practical implications.

 
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why do something when its not going to matter?
why continue life if there will never be a purpose?

Why not?

Does everything need a purpose? The video game and entertainment media sectors are doing just fine through all the economic problems even though their products don’t have any objective point to them. Subjectively they are entertaining, fun etc but they have no objective value yet people still seem to demand them.

its like throwing a rock into a pond when you try to fix a pc. what will throwing a rock into a pond help you when it comes to fixing pc’s?

I have no idea how it is like that but I will respond anyway.
1) If you enjoyed throwing the rock in the pond and it didn’t negatively affect anyone else then it does have a point, you enjoyed it
2) The break may allow your subconscious to work out the problem and then later fix the PC
3) You shouldn’t be expecting the act of throwing a rock in a pond to fix a PC in the first place. This is probably most relevant to the topic as I think unreal expectations are what lead to people feeling there is little point to life.

everyone that says “you should enjoy life while you have it” are a bunch of agnostics or theists.

I am neither but nice blanket statement with a superior, insulting tone

but if you really want to know the answer to this question, then you need to come onto my level of intellect.

and the superiority complex is complete! What pray tell is this fabled “level of intellect” you possess that we can only dream of?

everything is collisions, we are not people. its all just one big sandbox of collisions. we do not posses the ability to worry about the afterlife, since we are not people. everything have a calculation and thus we do not have choice or exist in terms of being humans with choices. so, there is no point in living or dying, since we cant do either.

So you follow the concept of pre-determinism? I like how you previously had mocked theorists but now tell us you too believe in something that cannot be proved but also cannot be proved to be false that has a power over your life…

 
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but lets say that we did have free will, then we should suicide because there is no point in anything. doing something wont matter because till infinity everyone and everything will decay and none off your actions to change the world will matter. also, why do something if you cant enjoy the fruits of it?

 
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Originally posted by IrritatedTuna:

you are right when you say there is no purpose to life. That’s true but the journey is the destination. when i think of the impermanence of life i also think of how grateful i am to have an opportunity to exist, and to have a chance at enjoying life as much as i can. I also think of the year 1890 when i wasn’t even alive. i know that death will be just like that, so knowing that there is no central purpose to life and there is no afterlife, it only makes me want to enjoy life even more. To help people, to laugh and all that good stuff!

why take a journey when there is no reason to. it will amount to nothing for you and everyone else. its completely illogical.

 
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but lets say that we did have free will, then we should suicide because there is no point in anything.

So why are you still here if you find life to be so meaningless? You have enough free will to jump off a bridge or walk in front of a train. Why haven’t you done it already?

 
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Originally posted by Galdos:
Originally posted by IrritatedTuna:

you are right when you say there is no purpose to life. That’s true but the journey is the destination. when i think of the impermanence of life i also think of how grateful i am to have an opportunity to exist, and to have a chance at enjoying life as much as i can. I also think of the year 1890 when i wasn’t even alive. i know that death will be just like that, so knowing that there is no central purpose to life and there is no afterlife, it only makes me want to enjoy life even more. To help people, to laugh and all that good stuff!

why take a journey when there is no reason to. it will amount to nothing for you and everyone else. its completely illogical.

Because you only think that there should be something at the end of an action. But that’s not true. The action itself can be just as rewarding.

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

but lets say that we did have free will, then we should suicide because there is no point in anything.

So why are you still here if you find life to be so meaningless? You have enough free will to jump off a bridge or walk in front of a train. Why haven’t you done it already?

Which is the question I was asking actually.