Secession of States post Obama re-election page 3

244 posts

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Originally posted by MyTie:

You’re right, Bob!

I’m sorry Jan. It was my fault for not reading the context of your post! Have a good day, and I’ll try not to let it happen again.

Accepted. I’ll try to be less confrontational to you in the future.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:

Also known as The Presidential Thread, part deux, I came across the information that some states are seriously flirting with the idea of seceding from the union after this last election:


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57548572/states-petition-to-secede-from-union/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/12/states-petition-obama-administration-to-secede/


For instance, the White House will formally address this request if there are at least 25,000 signatures. Texas has already gotten them 22,000.

If the secession of some or all of these states occurs, what will be the impact? Would they become individual separate little countries beside each other? How would it change things (such as the budget) from what they currently are?

I wondered why this wasn’t brought up before. There have been several resolutions for succession in the last four years. states like Montana have actually pulled back on federal authority by using throwing the commerce clause back at them. For instance, any firearms made in Montana and sold in Montana will not require any federal background checks or will not have to answer to any federal laws. the feds come in and sued them and if I recall, lost. There have been a few states do this in the last few years.

Obama-care is another law some states are ignoring and refusing to accept. they are opting out. Here is a government link You can go to to sign the petitions. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/ As most Americans know, Texas has an odd relationship with our government. They are a state, but when they joined the union they had certain conditions the feds must accept. One is Texas is the only state in the union that can have a standing army answerable only to the Texas governor.

There are so many things happening all of a sudden that I didn’t expect. The fiscal cliff was expected, but not the large number of layoffs occurring with businesses. It is forecast that approximately 4 million jobs will be lost in the next year. Major companies are doing this. Some companies are moving operations out of the country and closing down their plants in the US.

I have heard company supplied health insurance is going away. In the next year it is expected 1/3 of companies will stop health insurance policies provided by them. Seniors will lose about 20% of their social security income and 716 billion dollars will be cut yearly from Medicare. Those death panels they were skirting around are back and seniors will get less medical care to control medical costs. Hospitals are gong to take a hit and are already starting to cut back on medical employees. I’m just guessing, but I believe we will lose a lot of hospitals and doctors as well.

All of this is coming forward now that the election is over. This was in the background and now it doesn’t matter what the people care about as Obama can’t run another term and doesn’t have to answer for his actions.

Remember the gun control efforts I told you all about? There here………. Obama is going to sign on with the UN on their gun control scheme which will void part of our Bill of Rights. The others will be on the line as well through different acts coming up. They say you get the government you vote for and It looks like our country is still going down the wrong road. God help us.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Remember the gun control efforts I told you all about? There here………. Obama is going to sign on with the UN on their gun control scheme which will void part of our Bill of Rights. The others will be on the line as well through different acts coming up.

Source? I would say that’s probably false

 
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Originally posted by JaumeBG:

25,000 signatures is hardly representative of an entire state’s desires. The majority of people in those states do not want to secede. Trust me, I come from a non-American region wanting independence, and an online petition is not how it’s done.

It is hardly economically advantageous to these states. Especially if they are all intending to secede as individual countries, as these petitions have it, instead of one federation.

Also, most people signing these petitions can be assumed to be conservatives angry about the democratic outcome of the election. Why is it that these conservatives are so patriotic until they disagree with the democracy? They will have not much military defense, either.

How your country does it and how our country begins are different. Not everyone in a state knows about these petitions or they would have a much larger number of people. I would say, if you are seeing this much discontent and ember is burning and it doesn’t take much to make a flame from there. And quit calling us a democracy. We are a Republic, they are different.

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

Probably the oil fields in Texas and the Gulf are a good enough reason for the rest of the US to want to keep at least some of the rednecks on board, but in purely idealogical terms this is golden opportunity which will doubtless be allowed to go to waste : )

But having the hump about an election result is hardly a reason for secession and potentially a civil war. Would I be right in assuming that this is just a bunch of neo-cons throwing a tantrum?

No, it has been boiling for a long time, decades in fact. The south is still ticked about the previous civil war. I don’t think it will take much more of what this country is going through to set something off. Our country is technically split right down the middle now. This is a recipe for a disaster. The election is just another slap at a grand old country. Four more years of what we are currently going through and there won’t be a lot of America left. If these states secede the United States will cease to exist as a union of separate states. These states can all stand on their own and if enough states secede, the government will probably be reset.

 
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Originally posted by NeilSenna:

Does anyone actually take these people seriously?

I live elsewhere, but whenever I read topics about secession I picture one or two loonies jumping up and down at the side of the road, waving placards Westboro Baptist style, while the whole world trundles past not even noticing they exist.

Neil, it was a small group that demanded independence from England. It just takes one seed to grow a Redwood tree. don’t count our a few voices making a big wave.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Not even neo-cons these days, at least not the ones I am used to.
These are the “TEA Party” types; basically an astroturf movement backed by the likes of the Koch brothers, that claim to be fiscal conservatives, but go all social conservative manic as soon as they get half a chance.
There are also lots of instances of complete hypocrisy when it comes to screaming about a nanny state, whilst being a social security recipient.

Basically, it’s a lot of old white people that can’t outright say “BECAUSE HE’S A N*%@ER!!!” so they’ve come up with a load of nonsense with little to no basis in reality.

Now they think they can collect 25,000 signatures and secede.

It’s kinda cute, really.

It may be a lot of old people who paid into the SS system all of their lives and watch the money be taken by democrats to use for social programs over the years. There was a huge surplus in the SS fund and government (Johnson-D) couldn’t keep their hands off of it and spent it all. They are the ones who made the system unstable my friend. Yes, that program was paid for by the recipients and is still being paid for by them in their old age.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Texas Statehood and Secession Myths

It’s not actually a thing.
It’s just something ill-informed residents like to WARGHARRBL about.

Let me ask you this. When we fought the civil war, did the southern states not secede from the union?

 
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Not successfully.

 
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Originally posted by Redem:

Not successfully.

LOL…I’m gonna agree w/ that.

BUT, I’d like to toss this in.
It gives an interesting perspective on the matter.

AND, I like the third option for an answer to the question: “So which is it? Or is it the third option: The Republicans were a bunch of lawless sludge cakes who only considered them states when it was of advantage to them.”

 
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Originally posted by Redem:

Not successfully.

Still they seceded. If it becomes necessary to have another civil war, there will be another bloodbath. This might be necessary to bring our country back from socialism. Don’t dismiss anything from happening, there are a lot of disenfranchised people.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by Redem:

Not successfully.

Still they seceded. If it becomes necessary to have another civil war, there will be another bloodbath.

If it’s just Texas, I honesltly doubt how long that would last.

This might be necessary to bring our country back from socialism.

There are other ways of getting over post-retirement bordom, you know.

 
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Maybe, but a good war never hurts.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Maybe, but a good war never hurts.

Actually, war does hurt. We don’t want our family members marching into a “bloodbath” unless they absolutely have to. Arbitrarily wishing for war is stupid.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Maybe, but a good war never hurts.

Okay, I’m going to assume you’re being silly, and then proceed to forget my assumption.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by jhco50:

Maybe, but a good war never hurts.

Actually, war does hurt. We don’t want our family members marching into a “bloodbath” unless they absolutely have to. Arbitrarily wishing for war is stupid.

It was sarcasm Twilight.

 
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OK.

 
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jhco, no; incorrect. How nearly every country that has become independent in the 20th and 21st century has done it is through overthrowing the goverment—which as I said, not even Texas will do—or through a democratic process wherein they listen to the will of the majority of its citizens. Before you attack the word “democratic”, let’s reflect. Will such a process of having 25,000 to less than 95,000 signatures in a state with millions of people—some of these with tens of millions—represent the will of the majority? No. They will not become an independent country because of a couple of dozen thousand signatures on an online form, many of which aren’t even from people in that state. Do you seriously believe these couple of dozen thousand signatures will make Texas an independent, sovereign country?

And again, most people have to agree to independence if a geopolitical entity wants to become a sovereign nation—unless it is done in an undemocratic manner such as overthrowing a government—, and most people do not, and I reiterate, do not want to become independent. E.g., most Texans want to remain part of the United States of America.

I did not call the United States a “democracy” in the post you quoted, I simply used the word “democratic”. We all know the United States is not democratic, look at the Electoral College. Enough said.

“This much discontent”? Can we actually look at the numbers here? I know you hated to look at the truth and reality of the numbers in the presidential thread, so you probably won’t like this. According to the United States Census Bureau estimate of 2011, Texas has 25,674,681 people. Texas’ petition, on the other hand, has 93,461 signatures at the time of this post. Many of these signatures are not from Texas to begin with, as you can see in that link, but let’s not take that into account. The petition signers for Texas represent 0.3640201% of Texas population. That’s less than 1 in 20 Texans. That’s less than 1 in 100 Texans. That’s less than 1 in 500 Texans supporting independence.

So are you honestly saying here that what 0.364% of people want, many of whom are not Texans, should be what the majority of Texans should do? The will of <0.4% should become the will of the majority (>50%, >12,000,000 people)? All this for less than a hundred thousand signatures. And you are taking these online petitions seriously?

Lastly, when will you learn how to have multiple quotations in just one—not five, just one—post? It’s annoying and nearly everyone in this forum knows how to do it except you.

 
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All I can tell you jaume, where there is smoke, most likely there is fire. You can play with the numbers, but trying to squelch the thought that half the country is tired of socialism and a government that doesn’t listen to them anymore is just hope. Democrats won, but they didn’t win by all that much. It just takes a few to get the ball rolling and it seems to be rolling and picking up speed.

 
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Hell,,,,shitcan the tin-foil hat.

Roll out the aluminum body armor.

LOL

Jaume, ya’d think that as long as he’s been alive and all he “knows because of it” (he so often reminds us), that he’d know that he has “seen” all of this shit before.

At least I have.
It certainly isn’t anything new.
The only thing making it different is the Internet.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

All I can tell you jaume, where there is smoke, most likely there is fire.

This can’t even be called smoke, it’s at best some sparks from ground gears.

… the thought that half the country is tired of socialism

I’m sure if most of those people then actually knew what socialism actually is, instead of a synonym for comunism that would quickly change.

You can play with the numbers, but trying to squelch [the thought]… and a government that doesn’t listen to them anymore is just hope.

He’s not “playing” with any numbers, he’s just saying what percentage the people who signed the petition represent.

Democrats won, but they didn’t win by all that much.

Electoral or popular?

It just takes a few to get the ball rolling and it seems to be rolling and picking up speed.
inb4you’reprovenwrongagainbutyouthenactasifitneverhappened
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Hell,,,,shitcan the tin-foil hat.

Roll out the aluminum body armor.

LOL

I need to blog about this…

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
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Tenco, I’m not saying these states are going to secede. What I am saying is there is smoke. People still don’t seem to be happy with Obama’s reelection. Enough people to exert concern. I have said I think we are going to see violence. The potential is there. Maybe this is how people are expressing their anger. I can’t predict the outcome of this, only watch it along with the rest of you. But I’m not going to extrapolate theories, just say we should beware.

 
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They don’t want to take their country back. They want to leave it behind.

Best statement ever.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Hell,,,,shitcan the tin-foil hat.

Roll out the aluminum body armor.

LOL

Jaume, ya’d think that as long as he’s been alive and all he “knows because of it” (he so often reminds us), that he’d know that he has “seen” all of this shit before.

At least I have.
It certainly isn’t anything new.
The only thing making it different is the Internet.

If you don’t have anything to add, shut the hell up.

Says the guy who’s still calling Obama a Muslim and a socialist.
Get a clue.