Secession of States post Obama re-election page 5

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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

You are looking from the outside in and don’t understand the people as well as you think you do.

I’m observing a horde of angry people that their vote wasn’t the majority posting up some ridiculous petition and hoping that their minority is going to get them anywhere. I acknowledge they have different views from Obama, but I don’t acknowledge that their only options are Romney or forming a separate country.

Texas as a state started bringing up seccession back in the bush terms but was only known locally within the state… Petitions for or against were often sent to the state capital… This is the first time (that I know of) that it has been sent to the white house and congress.

Now that fact aside, Any state wishing to join the union must draw up a bill of rights congruent with that of the US and provide individual stipulations to the union as terms before joining. Texas being a former nation left the stipulation that it would with hold the rights of its army commanded only by the president of texas (became the governor) the state flag would be the only one to fly at same level as the US flag, and should it ever deem neccessary or prudent… Be allowed to secede from the union and become its own nation again. That was written into there statehood constitution that the congress and president of the era signed.

Beyond that… Out of Texas it recieved no electoral votes for Obama (as well as other states) and the populace votes in those states were mainly Romney. When you look at the final map in the general color code you see alot of red 30 states in fact voted republican 20 states voted democrat The projected electoral vote was 281 republican and 257 democrat. Popular votes were counted 61 million vs 58 million (give or take rough estimate) electoral returned and instead of being the previous estimate we had 207 vs 303 (I think that was the final number) It was called by the electoral as a landslide win to obama… That is where some of the anger is coming from. The past 4 presidential elections have not been decided by popular vote but by the electoral college who in some of those instances has actually voted against the popular majority.

You add on top of that the raising debt, increased costs of living, stagnate wages, slow job force, declining economy, the forced laws, the stripping of rights, liberties, and freedoms over the past 12 years and one should begin to see the bigger picture… At least half of this country wants out… They are done, they feel that there government is not listening to them and they don’t want to take it anymore.

 
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Again sry for the dble post…

People want to know where these petitions are

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

I honestly get a laugh out of some of them

I am not gonna scroll through all 60 or 70 of the state ones again but here is the texas one (not sure if I am allowed to post these links if not I am sry to moderators and admins)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B

I will admit that the number of signatures is starting to slow down… But you can read through all the signatures and see that it is not one person signing over and over again lol While a majority are in texas you have many other signatures from across the US as well

 
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Most people do not even question why, how, or what. Just as an example the next biggest petition on the white house website is that of federally legalized marijuana at over 50,000 signatures (and apparently this is not the first time its been put forward to be signed)… Thats the next biggest issue concerning the people of this country…

You think you’ve got problems. We have 20% of your population, and yet 165,000 people think that stopping the badger cull (they’re cute but they carry bovine TB) is the second most pressing issue facing us at the moment. 174,000 of them think the most important thing is to give back to Richard Branson a franchise in which he failed miserably. You just can’t trust Joe Public to get it right in politics.

That is where some of the anger is coming from. The past 4 presidential elections have not been decided by popular vote but by the electoral college who in some of those instances has actually voted against the popular majority.

If this is the root of the problem, then wouldn’t it be more sensible to start a petition on dumpimg the EC system instead of getting sidetracked into some bullshit argument about breaking up the union?. From what I have read about it, the EC is widely unpopular. An attack on that would likely gain a lot of support nationwide, and from a much wider demographic. Now that’s something the White House would have to take seriously.

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

Most people do not even question why, how, or what. Just as an example the next biggest petition on the white house website is that of federally legalized marijuana at over 50,000 signatures (and apparently this is not the first time its been put forward to be signed)… Thats the next biggest issue concerning the people of this country…

You think you’ve got problems. We have 20% of your population, and yet 165,000 people think that stopping the badger cull (they’re cute but they carry bovine TB) is the second most pressing issue facing us at the moment. 174,000 of them think the most important thing is to give back to Richard Branson a franchise in which he failed miserably. You just can’t trust Joe Public to get it right in politics.

That is where some of the anger is coming from. The past 4 presidential elections have not been decided by popular vote but by the electoral college who in some of those instances has actually voted against the popular majority.

If this is the root of the problem, then wouldn’t it be more sensible to start a petition on dumpimg the EC system instead of getting sidetracked into some bullshit argument about breaking up the union?. From what I have read about it, the EC is widely unpopular. An attack on that would likely gain a lot of support nationwide, and from a much wider demographic. Now that’s something the White House would have to take seriously.

This is very true and over the years mainly around election time groups pop up and petitions to remove the electoral completely from the elections. Being that we are now in a digital age and the information is gathered immediately. The electoral was created for the reason that once upon a time it would take weeks to count all the votes and send it to the capital… the electoral were supposed to be representatives of there districts and make the vote for the people…. Which as I said earlier they have not been doing.

In reply to another post

Originally posted by slasher:

Ok yea you can take all your military personel and even equipment from the state but you will leave the multibillion dollar hospitals, headquarters, and the largest base in the world (Fort Hood) will be left to us

Guard the texas us border… Thats gonna be hard because you can’t even guard the 2,000 miles of the us mexico border… How are you gonna handlee the 3,000+ texas us border… As soon as I stop laughing I will comment further

The passports will be fine thats part of the agreement but if any tax collectors come to collect from any texas citizen they will be jailed.

The state of texas pays for its own infrastructure as most states do and texas already having some of the nicest roads in the union…. I think we will be fine… The education system… Let me remind you that texas is a state with a balanced budget, who is actually in the black… We have money to spend and are wishing to reform education anyways.

All US businesses you say??? So the fact that texas has more fortune 500 companies within its borders now become texas companies and are no longer subject to your healthcare, or 30-45% tax increase… Also companies that provide to your military such as lockheed and martin, which you currently purchase the aircraft at cost. The state now withholds a right to charge a tax rate on all f-35, f-22, f-16, c-130, c-5, u2, p3, adp, and t50 aircraft. As well as any other companies that design and builds parts m1a1 abrahms tanks, body armor, weapons, shipyards, and digital technologies ranging anywhere from calculators to sophisticated radars… Furthermore American airlines will now be referred to as texas airlines

We will also continue selling our natural gas and oil to the us but there will be a tax cost to pay for any extra programs we deem worthy and texas citizens do take priority.

International law states that faa must operate at all airports around the world… Should the air traffic controllers wish it they become texas citizens and they will continue to work. If you wish to fire so many employees we will gladly take them to help us build a new nation… If they wish to return to a nation that fired them for simply being inside our borders at time of transition we will provide transportation for them into the us.

foreigners are allowed to recieve payments? thats another one that makes me laugh… You provide large sums of money to every other country in the world under the guise of aide… And you are concerned about removing us lol ok.

The coast guard is fine… Seeing as how you already left us with a huge shipyard in houston and a naval base in galveston I think we will be fine…. Is there anything else we can do for you?

PS… You really should have thought this through more… Without the US, Texas is ranked as the 15th largest economy in the world with a fairly low unemployment rate of about 6% and a balanced budget We have 3 times the fortune 500 companies as the next state on the list (California) There is no employment tax… Only a sales tax of 8%…

>

 
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All US businesses you say??? So the fact that texas has more fortune 500 companies within its borders now become texas companies and are no longer subject to your healthcare, or 30-45% tax increase…

They won’t stay there, though. Anyplace that secedes would be looked on as a hostile, radical commercial environment where anything and everything could go wrong. Business heads won’t take their chances, neither would shareholders. If they stayed they’d be willfully allowing their stock to plummet.

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

If this is the root of the problem, then wouldn’t it be more sensible to start a petition on dumpimg the EC system instead of getting sidetracked into some bullshit argument about breaking up the union?. From what I have read about it, the EC is widely unpopular. An attack on that would likely gain a lot of support nationwide, and from a much wider demographic. Now that’s something the White House would have to take seriously.

I agree. What’s done is done, and chopping up our country into smaller parts isn’t necessarily going to make everything better. The popular vote has been demonstrated to have different, yet more personalized, results than the electoral college. I think the need for the electoral college is outdated and our country could have elected officials much more in tune with their needs (in general) if the popular vote was implemented. A petition probably should be started on that.

 
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That letter from Obama is pretty funny. When big business immigrates to Texas, and Texas becomes one of the largest oil exporters in the world, becoming an economic metropolis, it will let the US borrow money. Pretty soon Okalahoma would want to secede and join Texas, if Texas would forgive Oklahoma’s portion of the debt. More states to follow…

Yeah, a big loss for Texas, not having flight controllers paid by the federal government. Fucking L – O – L. What that letter shows is just how little the Feds provide to the states, and what kind of a price that comes at. Very enlightening. Fucking flight controllers…

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

That letter from Obama is pretty funny.

What letter from Obama?

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by MyTie:

That letter from Obama is pretty funny.

What letter from Obama?

The joke letter farther up on the page.

Originally posted by slasher:

 
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here is something that would be funny NOTE I DO NOT THINK THIS WOULD HAPPEN BUT IF IT DID ID LAUGH MY ASS OFF if all 50 states succeeded and left obama as a lame powerless figurehead with a 16 trillion dollar debt over his head, i would laugh about that for DAYS

 
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Originally posted by slasher:

I have a gut feeling that the people who signed that petition wouldn’t mind that stuff happening. In fact, a lot of that I wouldn’t mind happening either to my Texas if I lived there.

The concept of forced dependence might work on states like Florida or New York, but Texan infrastructure, law etc. is already different from the US, and it seems likely that they would survive a transition to a new state and new governmental system. All of this is rather irrelevant, though, as 25000 or even 100,000 users on a website agreeing on something does not constitute popular opinion.

What I found most disturbing were the people who called for the exile or stripping of citizenship for those who signed secessionist petitions. The freedom of petition, and the freedom to say anything not threatening or classified within those petitions, are both protected by the 1st amendment. Furthermore, it is not illegal for a state to leave the union; congress maintains power to allow or disallow legal secession, however precedent has made it very clear that the federal government will not allow states to leave. So to talk about bypassing the most essential of our freedoms to punish dissenters is not demonstrating faith in the policies of the union which you wish to preserve, and it is also counter-intuitive. These people who call for such illegal means of deportation or exile are only fueling both people who legitimately believe in the right of secession and tinfoil hat theories.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

The joke letter farther up on the page.

Well at least you’re acknowledging that it is a joke letter, but it was just confusing because it was written by not-Obama.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by MyTie:

The joke letter farther up on the page.

Well at least you’re acknowledging that it is a joke letter, but it was just confusing because it was written by not-Obama.

Well, yeah. It says “satire” right on it, at the very top of the page.

Originally posted by ohmylanta:
What I found most disturbing were the people who called for the exile or stripping of citizenship for those who signed secessionist petitions. The freedom of petition, and the freedom to say anything not threatening or classified within those petitions, are both protected by the 1st amendment. Furthermore, it is not illegal for a state to leave the union; congress maintains power to allow or disallow legal secession, however precedent has made it very clear that the federal government will not do this. So to talk about bypassing the most essential of our freedoms to punish dissenters is not demonstrating faith in the policies of the union which you wish to preserve, and it is also counter-intuitive. These people who call for such illegal means of deportation or exile are only fueling both people who legitimately believe in the right of secession and tinfoil hat theories.


I hadn’t heard that people were doing this. Source?
 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

Well, yeah. It says “satire” right on it, at the very top of the page.

I know, it was just confusing that you reffered to it as if it was made by Obama.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:I know, it was just confusing that you reffered to it as if it was made by Obama.

I see. I think if you were to get to know me personally you wouldn’t think I would make that kind of mistake. Actually, I think you and I would get along quite well. Anyway…

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by tenco1:I know, it was just confusing that you reffered to it as if it was made by Obama.

I see. I think if you were to get to know me personally you wouldn’t think I would make that kind of mistake. Actually, I think you and I would get along quite well. Anyway…

Hey, tenco….I think MyTie wants to “get a motel room”. LOL
 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:I think MyTie wants to “get a motel room”. LOL

I just think tenco and I would get along pretty well, as we are both passionate about our beliefs. I get along well with people that I can debate. That’s a trait I respect. That has something to do with a motel room? For being an old guy, you are really really immature.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

I just think tenco and I would get along pretty well, as we are both passionate about our beliefs.

Wait, I have beliefs?… Huh.

For being an old guy, you are really really immature.

Oh you should see Uncle Joe.

It’s always Uncle Joe…

 
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If the White House ends up having address the petitions they’ll probably just say “no” and then the 25,000 or so crazies (who don’t make up nearly enough of a group to point to that the majority of the state wants to secede) will have to sit around mad for a little while.

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

You mean Jesusland?

Jesusland is Israel he’s coming back there someday, we just need to get rid of all those pesky Muslims first. For now we should just press the Israeli government to be more extreme than they have interest in being to help Jesus return, he may be an all powerful god, but he can’t return without our help!

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

All US businesses you say??? So the fact that texas has more fortune 500 companies within its borders now become texas companies and are no longer subject to your healthcare, or 30-45% tax increase…

They won’t stay there, though. Anyplace that secedes would be looked on as a hostile, radical commercial environment where anything and everything could go wrong. Business heads won’t take their chances, neither would shareholders. If they stayed they’d be willfully allowing their stock to plummet.

Yea I forgot to add the choice part that…. If it were to happen like that as the satire of the orignal and my own remarks are to the topic. In actuallity I would forsee the them given the choice… Do you wish to stay in texas and become a texas company here are our stipulations for business licenses and taxes… And your alternative would be to return to the us with no fear of reprisal… Here are the stipulations pf there business licenses and taxes.

Most businesses including my families business are based in texas because of the state laws protecting business owners and limiting taxes on the company… I would think after a legal secession the laws would change slightly seeing as how texas would have more leniency to affect the business…. In the end any country wants businesses to stay and come within its borders to produce jobs and revenue

 
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Micheal, I think Jan’s right on this one. Privately owned companies might very well choose to stay, but the likes of Exxon and Kimberly Clark would be running for the hills. One of the things the money markets really hate is uncertainty, and there would be plenty of that to go round if Texas seceded. For the big multi-nationals to remain headquartered there would be courting disaster. If their share prices dropped, and the company was using them as collateral for loans, the results could be catastrophic.

 
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Let’s see.
Remain headquartered in Texas:

  • New, untested nation
  • No confirmed trade agreements or policy
  • No plan for maintenance and infrastructure
  • Significantly smaller customer pool (no trade agreements, remember?)

Leave Texas for the USA

  • Business as usual

Yeah…I don’t see any way a serious company stays in Texas.

Also, don’t know if it was posted yet, but this happened:
Perry backed down.

So much for the rootin’ tootin’ Texas Secession poster boy governor.
LOL

 
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Texas was already its own nation at one point. It isn’t “new and untested” at all. It was doing just fine until it was annexed by the US, an event not all Texans were happy about. It has standing resources, infrastructure, military, and government. Free of federal regulatory burdens, it would be a major competitor for any economy in the remaining US. As for companies wanting to continue “business as usual”, I’d have a better time accepting that if so many companies hadn’t already shipped work overseas, even to places like China. I’m not arguing for secession, but your arguments about why it would hurt Texas don’t hold water. Everything Texas needs to survive as a nation, it has, and then some, which it has already proven it can do.

 
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…what standing military does it have, exactly?
Ft. Hood was brought up. That’s US Army. All of the other installations are US military, as well.
Their medical facilities were brought up, I believe. What, the US isn’t going to decommission its sites and export all that gear back? Just going to leave all their gear lying in Texas to be picked up by a possibly hostile new nation?
Not likely.

As for business; the current Texas economy is unsustainable.
There is not enough taxation to sustain infrastructure and important services like education without federal money.
That’s why businesses have been moving here: massive tax breaks.
Unfortunately, once the work force devolves to a level of education akin to that of a below-average eighth grader, companies will realize they don’t have the skilled personnel they need.
On the flip side, if Texas starts taxing at a sustainable level, the companies bail out anyway, because the tax dodge that prompted them to move in the first place just went away.

As for resources; there’s oil.
But that market is highly volatile. Texas has already suffered through an oil recession, and there’s no reason to think it’s not possible again.

I mean…you don’t really have a point. You strung some words together, threw in a “herpderpChina”…and what?