Obamacare Causes Companies to Cut Hours page 5

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Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by beauval:

The three ways that is done: cut hours, cut workers, increase prices. This doesn’t come from “butthurt” but from the fact that the money must come from somewhere to pay for this. Why don’t you libs understand this?

But we libs do understand this. (I’m considered a conservative over here btw). Obviously the money has to come from somewhere – it’s all a matter of priorities. Is a few cents on the price of your meal such a terrible price to pay for all that company’s employees to get access to decent health care?

No, it wouldn’t be a really big deal, if it were just that, but it isn’t. The farm has to charge more for the food it produces to pay for the workers. The gas company that supplies the shipping company has to charge more from the transport trucks. The truckers have to charge more. The packaging companies have to charge more. The food outlets have to charge more. The brokers have to charge more. FINALLY, the restaurant has to charge more. When you buy ANYTHING, you are paying for a plethora of people’s health insurance. The price of EVERYTHING will increase, while the costs of individual healthcare will increase.

Not all companies suddenly face a new cost. Around 60% of the Americans under 65 already have employer paid insurance. Also companies with less than 50 people do not need to. Companies equal and above 50 people only have to offer affordable health insurance plans, with employees being able to choose to opt of such plans, for example if they rather have private coverage.

So no the price of everything will not increase.

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:Not all companies suddenly face a new cost. Around 60% of the Americans under 65 already have employer paid insurance. Also companies with less than 50 people do not need to. Companies equal and above 50 people only have to offer affordable health insurance plans, with employees being able to choose to opt of such plans, for example if they rather have private coverage.
So no the price of everything will not increase.

I admit not every company will be affected, for instance, if a company only has 3 employees. I still think the price of everything will go up, though. Which market, which product, or which service is not affected by the surrounding companies? For instance, if a company who makes candles has two employees, that company doesn’t have to provide insurance. However, if they buy the wax from a supplier, or a large retailer, or ship through a big company like UPS, etc etc etc, the cost of doing business will rise, and if they want to stay in business, the price of their candles should go up. Obamacare impacts the entire economy, as it affects, like you said, the expenses of 40% of companies. As I showed with an article on the last page, there will also be levies waged onto medical supply companies. The costs of healthcare will go up, to pay the medical supply companies, so they can send money to government. This is an elaborate and burdensome tax, on everybody. There’s no way around the math. It’s going to raise the price of everything, and that money is going to Uncle Sam.

 
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Healthcare costs shouldn’t go up. Any increase in materials will be covered by the additional insurance claim money. There are many ways to reduce the costs from a medical point of view, by careful choice of which products to give the patient. Often for example, its cheaper to give a more expensive treatment for a short period of time than to give them cheaper treatments over a longer period.

When you haven’t got to consider whether or not the insurance company will pay for treatment X before you prescribe it, it makes things a whole heck easier (and cheaper).

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:Healthcare costs shouldn’t go up. Any increase in materials will be covered by the additional insurance claim money.

Then the cost of insurance goes up.

Originally posted by vikaTae:When you haven’t got to consider whether or not the insurance company will pay for treatment X before you prescribe it, it makes things a whole heck easier (and cheaper).

I dispute cheaper. The temptation to get an expensive treatment even though it isn’t necessary will be a huge temptation to people. Further, doctors are likely to encourage expensive treatments to get paid. This will result in higher insurance costs for everyone, not lesser.

 
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Perhaps it will tempt patients, but the clinician at the end of the day, makes the final decision. Nobody’s going to give a patient unnecessary treatment – it comes out of the departmental budget.

On the flipside, it is finally a green light to give patients very necessary treatment that was previously not possible because of cost concerns. Treatment types that get them back on their feet, off of welfare and back earning. Or at the very least, put a crimper on previously unmanaged chronic pain, allowing them more quality of life.

Whichever way you look at it, knowing there is that basic funding there for each patient, is going to make things much easier, from our side of the fence.

Oh, and one other point. The doctor is paid by the facility, so there is no encouragement there either. The insurance money is used to pay for treatment, with some facility payment on top. The doctor is drawing a fixed, albeit high, wage regardless.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by scoopolard:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Ya know, MyTie….
“they” say the same fucking bullshit nonsense when the MINIMUM wage is raised.
A hard kick in the nutsack to all those who piss, whine, moan, wail, sob about SHARING this country’s great wealth (wealth, by the way, that also IS CREATED BY the working poor) w/ those who have no REAL, SENISBLE health care.

All this crap about Obamacare is just the new bigotry.
Ya can’t hate niggers,,,,
ya can’t hate faggots,,,
ya can’t hate Jews,,,
ya can’t hate Pollocks,,,

SO, let’s hate those fucking POOR PEOPLE who ought to be pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. YEAH. They are the cause of all the problems in America. Let’s blame them.

Sound familiar?

What are you talking about?

.

Originally posted by jhco50:

I haven’t figured out half his posts, so I just ignore them for the most part.

That this is the the position of the two of you…..surprises me HOW?
And, jake-o is onto something there in the way of an answer when he sez: so I am just ignorant on them for the most part.

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

How is it possible the Netherlands (and other countries) are capable of providing health care for everyone, and the US is too poor for that?

And THAT pretty much “tells the tale” of why there is soooooo fucking much bullshit in all the excuses//reasons why America can’t treat its “lower classes” of citizens decently…..esp. when we are supposed to be Christian in nature AND able to leap tall builings in a single bound.

No. But seriously. What the hell are you talking about?

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:Not all companies suddenly face a new cost. Around 60% of the Americans under 65 already have employer paid insurance. Also companies with less than 50 people do not need to. Companies equal and above 50 people only have to offer affordable health insurance plans, with employees being able to choose to opt of such plans, for example if they rather have private coverage.
So no the price of everything will not increase.

I admit not every company will be affected, for instance, if a company only has 3 employees. I still think the price of everything will go up, though. Which market, which product, or which service is not affected by the surrounding companies? For instance, if a company who makes candles has two employees, that company doesn’t have to provide insurance. However, if they buy the wax from a supplier, or a large retailer, or ship through a big company like UPS, etc etc etc, the cost of doing business will rise, and if they want to stay in business, the price of their candles should go up. Obamacare impacts the entire economy, as it affects, like you said, the expenses of 40% of companies.

But i did not say that. I said that 60% of the Americans already have employer provided health care. This does not mean that the rest 40% or that 40% of the companies have to get employer provided health care. I suggest you get your Math right before you start parading your ideas.

 
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Originally posted by scoopolard:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

How is it possible the Netherlands (and other countries) are capable of providing health care for everyone, and the US is too poor for that?

And THAT pretty much “tells the tale” of why there is soooooo fucking much bullshit in all the excuses//reasons why America can’t treat its “lower classes” of citizens decently…..esp. when we are supposed to be Christian in nature AND able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

No. But seriously. What the hell are you talking about?

Ya know, scoop….if YOU aren’t able to grasp the basics of how piss-poor the U.S.’s healthcare situation is,,,

if YOU aren’t able to grasp the REAL cause behind this deplorable system,,,,

if YOU can only manage a pathetic “serious” question like THAT….

THEN, no amount of explanation will likely be of much use to ya anyway.

Which is pretty much the very reason we Americans are in the shitter we are in,,
and this thread is where it is….drowning in ignorance while some ppl are tossing life preservers right & left.

I stand by my original assessment that since most (other than “illegals” ….meaning “beaners”) groups are now “hands off” for hate,,,
we have brought the “poor” right up to the top of the list and now want to spoon feed them as much shit as we can….
YEAH…everything is the fault of those “economically challenged” ppl.

I have a much better “reply”…
but, just don’t have the time to make it ATM.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by scoopolard:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

How is it possible the Netherlands (and other countries) are capable of providing health care for everyone, and the US is too poor for that?

And THAT pretty much “tells the tale” of why there is soooooo fucking much bullshit in all the excuses//reasons why America can’t treat its “lower classes” of citizens decently…..esp. when we are supposed to be Christian in nature AND able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

No. But seriously. What the hell are you talking about?

Ya know, scoop….if YOU aren’t able to grasp the basics of how piss-poor the U.S.’s healthcare situation is,,,

if YOU aren’t able to grasp the REAL cause behind this deplorable system,,,,


if YOU can only manage a pathetic “serious” question like THAT….


THEN, no amount of explanation will likely be of much use to ya anyway.


Which is pretty much the very reason we Americans are in the shitter we are in,,
and this thread is where it is….drowning in ignorance while some ppl are tossing life preservers right & left.


I stand by my original assessment that since most (other than “illegals” ….meaning “beaners”) groups are now “hands off” for hate,,,
we have brought the “poor” right up to the top of the list and now want to spoon feed them as much shit as we can….
YEAH…everything is the fault of those “economically challenged” ppl.


I have a much better “reply”…
but, just don’t have the time to make it ATM.

Please explain how deplorable our healthcare system is. It saved my life in a really bad moment. I see you are still around too. I think you just make up things to support your liberal BS.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Please explain how deplorable our healthcare system is. It saved my life in a really bad moment. I see you are still around too. I think you just make up things to support your liberal BS.

Ya know, jake-o....I'm most happy ya asked. I now have the time to make the reply I promised.

BUT, I want to make it VERY CLEAR that I'm NOT talking about YOU in specific. This is gonna be an: If the shoe fits....wear it,,,no matter how ugly it is,, how out of style it is,,how much it pinches & hurts the feet. I'm gonna be speaking ABOUT the 2nd cousins of "John & Jane Doe",,, their names are: Joe & Sally Dumb ass.

First: I want to address what ya said about my _"still being around"_ {due to our [not at all deplorable health care system] because of the marvelous advances in medicine. I had two open-heart surgeries....both of them total fuck ups. Yes the second one did fix the first. BUT, due to sloppy post-op care by the surgeon....he almost killed me by allowing me to go immediately on solid food even though my surgery was of an "emergency nature" which he would have been prepared for and had me NPO well in advance of suspected cause and verified by the outcome of a live-time x ray.

As it was, while a morning's hearty breakfast was mostly out of my stomach, my gut was very much full. Anesthesia messes up the natural function of the gut and supreme constipation results. I should have been on a liquid diet and has a super enema. The surgeon fucked up. I became so bloated that the GOOD gut bacteria was forced back into the bloodstream giving me a blood infection that overwhelmed normal post-op antibiotics.

AND therefore, the antibiotics totally couldn't address the staff infection brewing IN my sternum (very hard to kill and a leading cause of death of non-heart related open-chest surgeries) and all over my heart. The prognosis: GRAVE (the condition & very likely my "destination", also. He said to wife..._"I don't think I can save him...but, if I do, he won't have his sturnum."_ I was delirious for a week due to the infection. My wife knew something wasn't right...I recovered from the first surgery very quickly. She protested so much that the surgeon threatened to kick her out of the hospital.

BTW, I highly recommend & always do to ppl when talking of our health care that when in the hospital,,,the patient have a near-full time "advocate" looking out for their interests. Most who have already experienced a stay in a hospital totally agree. Such is the state of our hospital care. Call it "in-house-second-opinion-presentation".

Interestingly enough, the heart surgery I needed was a procedure only 200 surgeons worldwide are certified to perform...AND, the only one in Kansas lived in Wichita and was at the clinic//hospital I went to for a second opinion because the first one lied about their fuck up and sent me out to live or die....should the latter have happened, they hoped the wife wouldn't have had an autopsy and sued their assess off.

Both surgeons were guilty of malpractice. But in America, the AMA has such good lobbyists that there is a $250,000 cap on awards and though our lawyers said we had solid cases....they had NO interest in making NO money on such cases.

A wonderful infectious disease "hospitalist":http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=8384 literally saved my life. Of course, I was in an induced coma & paralyzing for 5 days while they performed 5 surgeries to remove necrotic tissue, etc. So much tissue was remove (along w/ some sternum) that the last (close-up) surgery was aided by a plastic surgeon who did a "pectoral flap":http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/myocutaneous+flap (cut the pec-major loose at the shoulder and "slide" it to the sturnum to cover the missing tissue. To this day, I have constant muscular stress trying to compensate for the imbalance of support to my shoulders.

Now, I've just told ya an interesting tale of "prince-&-pauper" healthcare. The marvel of open-heart surgery and the shit-care of two surgeons and the system that keeps them in line so they are punished for "lapses" of good care. Good news: I'm alive and can tell the tale. Bad news: a lot of ppl aren't.

Now, to speak about Obamacare & how it is IGNORANTLY addressed by Joe & Sally Dumbass. I really haven't the time to follow all of the MAJOR particulars about it. It seems there are several on this forum that are trying to inform the Dumbass couple on the truth & merits of Obamacare & Obamacarish forms of (universal?) health care programs (within & without America). It also seems that their input falls on Joe & Sally's "deaf ears".

My wife is the one who ardently follows the whole Obamacare debate. She's the one to give the similar "nuts-&-bolts" analysis similar to what the others are describing of the "Obamacare VEHICLE".

All I'm interested in is the "destination" this "vehicle" is trying to get our American society in the world of health care. I'm looking at the forest instead of the various trees that comprise it. All I'm interested in is why there was//is soooooo fucking much bullshit, cluster-fuck fighting over agreement in admitting reform is necessary,,,agreeing to begin to design & build the vehicle,,,deciding who is gonna "drive" it,,,and admitting that--as w/ most any vehicle, there ABSOLUTELY WILL BE things discovered as the vehicle is put into service (in the Navy, we called taking out a new ship a "shakedown cruise") and will need to be addressed and corrected...DUH.

BUT, NOOoooooo... Joe & Sally DUMBASS want to hold up and vilify health care that very likely will actually (maybe in the long term?) BE OF HUGE BENIFIT to them. Why do Joe & Sally do this? It is abundantly clear that it is due to politics....due to the political sources they ignorantly listen to and believe,,,even tho it causes them to act against their own best interests.

So, when Joe & Sally DUMBASS ask why our health care system is deplorable (and at the same time give out the usual mantra (in response to those of other nations comparing theirs to ours) of: AMERICA IS THE BEST....AT EVERYTHING,,,,,I tell them to pull their heads out of their asses and do a very easy research:

Simply Google: What is wrong w/ American health care "1)":http://prospect.org/article/ten-reasons-why-american-health-care-so-bad "2)":http://www.businessinsider.com/whats-wrong-with-the-healthcare-system2010-3?op=1 "3)":http://www.historynet.com/whats-wrong-with-american-healthcare.htm _"The World Health Organization ranks the U.S. 38th in health-care quality, below Dominica and Costa Rica and above Slovenia and Cuba. Meanwhile, per capita we're spending half again as much as our nearest competitor."_ "4":http://www.freemarketcure.com/whatswrongwithushealthcare.php

Joe & Sally DUMBASS should ask (not every idiot who will listen to their ignorant questions) THEMSELVES two questions of huge note:

1) Why is American health care so expensive? Could it be that insurance companies & pharmacutical companies are greedy and get obscenely rich because most ppl want to be healthy & alive? Is this best accomplished for them by ignoring the lower, poor classes of ppl?

2) Why do Sally & Joe so vehemently (and ignore the benefits) bitch about what Obamacare is going to cost them when they reacted extremely little to the crazy-ass cost the Iraq war had & is one of the major contributions to our high deficit. What kind of "bang-4-our-buck" did we get for THAT debacle? At least Obama is killing (and sending messages to) the various terroist groups.

Our Christian nation needs to ask WWJD? He said: _"On the last day, Jesus will say to those on His right hand, "Come, enter the Kingdom. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was sick and you visited me." Then Jesus will turn to those on His left hand and say, "Depart from me because I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was thirsty and you did not give me to drink, I was sick and you did not visit me." These will ask Him, "When did we see You hungry, or thirsty or sick and did not come to Your help?" And Jesus will answer them, "Whatever you neglected to do unto one of these least of these, you neglected to do unto Me!"_

 
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My last two posts were removed by admins. I called karma out for insulting people. Those posts were removed, but his posts, which are actually insulting remain. He can keep stuff up like “joe and sally dumbass” and saying “you aren’t able to grasp”, and just calling people ignorant. People who are like “what do you mean, karma”, and he calls them names, and then I’m like “you shouldn’t call people names” and then my posts get deleted. What the fuck!

Karma, knock it off, third time. I’ll keep telling you, over and over, to stop insulting people for not understanding your brand of pseudo English. Admins, you are wrong for deleting my posts, when they are not themselves insulting, especially when you let the actually insulting posts stand.

 
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Karma, I am sorry to hear of the problems you had with your bypasses. You went through bad times. But I too had a bypass and it was one of those do it now or it won’t be needed later, so I know all about them. Oh, I also was given solid food. Maybe I am just a bit more tenacious than you are since I obviously worked with my hands and not my whatever.

Now, to speak about Obamacare & how it is IGNORANTLY addressed by Joe & Sally Dumbass. I really haven’t the time to follow all of the MAJOR particulars about it. It seems there are several on this forum that are trying to inform the Dumbass couple on the truth & merits of Obamacare & Obamacarish forms of (universal?) health care programs (within & without America). It also seems that their input falls on Joe & Sally’s “deaf ears”.

My wife is the one who ardently follows the whole Obamacare debate. She’s the one to give the similar “nuts-&-bolts” analysis similar to what the others are describing of the “Obamacare VEHICLE”.

All I’m interested in is the “destination” this “vehicle” is trying to get our American society in the world of health care. I’m looking at the forest instead of the various trees that comprise it. All I’m interested in is why there was//is soooooo fucking much bullshit, cluster-fuck fighting over agreement in admitting reform is necessary,,,agreeing to begin to design & build the vehicle,,,deciding who is gonna “drive” it,,,and admitting that—as w/ most any vehicle, there ABSOLUTELY WILL BE things discovered as the vehicle is put into service (in the Navy, we called taking out a new ship a “shakedown cruise”) and will need to be addressed and corrected…DUH.

BUT, NOOoooooo… Joe & Sally DUMBASS want to hold up and vilify health care that very likely will actually (maybe in the long term?) BE OF HUGE BENIFIT to them. Why do Joe & Sally do this? It is abundantly clear that it is due to politics….due to the political sources they ignorantly listen to and believe,,,even tho it causes them to act against their own best interests.

So, when Joe & Sally Dumbasss ask why our health care system is deplorable (and at the same time give out the usual mantra (in response to those of other nations comparing theirs to ours) of: AMERICA IS THE BEST….AT EVERYTHING,,,,,I tell them to pull their heads out of their asses and do a very easy research:

Now let me tell you about Bob and Shirley Snodgrass. Bob was Joe’s brother by a different father and had a different view on Obamacare. You see, Bob did follow the particulars of the legislation and Bob knew that it was not only far from perfect, but very poorly planned out by a president who had a bad habit of lying and wanted the country he was supposed to be leading to be socialist, maybe even communist if he could get away with it. It scared him because he was an older person and to save costs on healthcare, it would eliminate much of the actual care he could receive on his own. And those pesky death panels, oh wait, they renamed them.

You see, the country that initialized this poorly thought out legislation and forced it on the people, didn’t have the money to pay for it. Not to worry, Social Security, Medicare, and Joe and Sally’s taxes would help pay for it, not to mention the workers of the country who would suffer higher taxes and penalties. Of course there are not a lot of those left, but that doesn’t matter. He will pay much of it with the senior citizens measly incomes, as they aren’t important, and borrow the rest. Bob and Shirley realized that the government of their country were inept and couldn’t be counted on to make intelligent decisions regarding their medical care since politicians only know how to steal, spend, and lie…and have never been to medical school.

Bob’s brother Joe was a liberal, not being able to ascertain the difference between stupidity and logic. I’m not sure but I believe Joe lived in Kansas. Sally must have been his wheatheart. :-) In any case, Joe was not the brightest bulb in the pack so he thought his country should be like all of the rest. It didn’t matter that there were different cultures and many of his countrymen had sacrificed their lives to give Joe his freedoms. Joe didn’t have the common sense to realize socialism was not wanted by everyone. It didn’t matter because Joe was a bit selfish too. Joe wanted to help everyone and felt he could as long as other peoples money lasted long enough.

So when Joe and Sally want to know why they can’t have that bypass anymore, Bob will tell them how the Obamacare system doesn’t have enough money, a lack of qualified doctors, a shortage of nurses, and fewer hospitals to allow him to have one. This is not to mention, Joe “is old” and it would be a wasted procedure on him, as being old he may die soon anyway.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

How is it possible the Netherlands (and other countries) are capable of providing health care for everyone, and the US is too poor for that?

Because those nations have the US to provide for their defense.

Since you usually don’t joke around, I’m going to have to assume you’re serious. Is this about national debt? Debt divided by amount of people? Are you suggesting that America’s costs (inefficient costs do not count in full) are higher than those countries that do have public health care, and that there is a direct link between this and the suggested idea that America’s spending on defense aids those countries for free?

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

So when Joe and Sally want to know why they can’t have that bypass anymore, Bob will tell them how the Obamacare system doesn’t have enough money, a lack of qualified doctors, a shortage of nurses, and fewer hospitals to allow him to have one. This is not to mention, Joe “is old” and it would be a wasted procedure on him, as being old he may die soon anyway.

Ignoring the slightly deranged nature of the rest of your argument (equating liberal with stupid, really?), this bit I will address.

One of the lovely things about socialised medicine, is that you don’t have to use it. Private healthcare exists right alongside it in most countries (ignoring Norway anyway). The socialised aspect covers the basics. If you wish any more than basic healthcare, go private. Pay your own way.

Absolutely nothing stopping you from finding a specialist doctor and paying the full cost up front (as opposed to them claiming it back afterwards, as with insurance) to speed your progression up the queue. You can also pay for precedures basic insurance won’t cover, as a private client, for extra levels of care.

Meanwhile, the socialised healthcare system gives all Americans a new right, one they never had before. Previously, good health was a priviledge. Now, health becomes a basic right.

a lack of qualified doctors, a shortage of nurses, and fewer hospitals to allow him to have one.

The funny thing about an increase in money available for procedures: It tends to increase the number of staff available, as well as the quality of the facilities.

Imagine that!

And no, we don’t have a strong enough healthcare industry to cover the whole country, right now. That in itself is a problem in serious need of addressing.

Joe “is old” and it would be a wasted procedure on him, as being old he may die soon anyway.

That’s not how healthcare works. I’m surprised you don’t realise this Jhco.

No matter the patient’s age, if the procedure will give them an increased quality of life, then from a medical perspective, it is worth trying. The whole point of medicine is to heal.

There are obviously exceptions where the procedure would be pointless, anyway. For example, anyone who suffers from poisoning of the liver, is generally exempt from liver donor lists. After all ,what would be the point in giving them a new one? They’ll just drink it to death, same as the last one.

Even those excptions would change if doner livers were far more readily available, and the procedure was cheaper.

That’s a key point: As a given healthcare system modernises, the cost for procedures tends to go down, not up. We badly need to modernise as it is. There will be an initial hump of increased expenditure to modernise our facilities and procedures, but costs will drop markedly once this is in place. Any good businessperson will be able to confirm that, as you see the same in good business.

 
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why are all arguments against socialized health care “omg i dont want to pay for those poor people 2 have health1!!”

Stop being greedy.

 
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I don’t have the time ATM to address the very obtuse concept YOU have of “socialized” medicine. But, I really want to set a few things right on what ya’ve said below.

Originally posted by jhco50:

Karma, I am sorry to hear of the problems you had with your bypasses.</blockqoute>My two surgeries weren’t bypass. They involve replacing the aortic valve.

You went through bad times.
No, it was my wife that went through the worse of it. I was in my own “hell”…which created an even greater one for her.

<blockqoute> But I too had a bypass and it was one of those do it now or it won’t be needed later, so I know all about them.

Well, DUH.
For the most part, largely due to the risk inherently involved w/ surgery, a progressive health issue of deterioration IS the reason for such surgery. I, obviously, am excluding ELECTIVE surgery….such as cosmetic.

Tell me, did YOU pay for all of this medical care out of your own pocket? Was there any govt. assistance? Even if insurance covered it, all insurance is is a form of socialism.
Another supportive perspective Which includes: “Do you believe in insurance? Yes, even health insurance, and in fact all insurance, is a form of socialism. Why? Because it spreads costs evenly among everyone in an insurance category even though each individual uses uneven amounts of their health coverage.”

Here is one that might actually “sink in” for ya.

NOW, while I will later address (the balance of your post to me) YOUR idiotic insistence that none of the above views on socialism aren’t part of the link where YOU ignorantly state “socialism” to be THE ONE & ONLY ideology YOU see it to be:
“There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.3 They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.4.

Maybe all of that is just too difficult for ya to “accept”. Sooooo, here on this one for awhile and see just how well it addresses YOUR “boogeyman”, aluminum body armor stance that Obama and his “leftie buddies” are trying to cram YOUR view of “socialism” down America’s throat.

Even Democratic Socialism is fraught w/ differing schools of thought: “Democratic socialism is difficult to define, and groups of scholars have radically different definitions for the term.” Soooo,,jake-o…why don’t YOU drop this asinine positon of yours that socialism is going to doom America? Your doing so only serves to make your positions ON THE FORUM HERE look like those of a raving, RANTING lunatic.

Oh, I also was given solid food. Maybe I am just a bit more tenacious than you are since I obviously worked with my hands and not my whatever.

Just what the fuck is THAT supposed to mean? All this is is merely MORE OF your obsessive fascination that YOUR personal life somehow is the quintessential epitome of “normalcy”.

First: as vika can well attest, each patient is different. The 2nd surgery where I obtained the staff infection was 8 hours long….rather than the typical 2 hour for bypass.

Second: I highly doubt that YOU were more tenacious in your recovery than was I. Did YOUR surgeon tell your wife that the prognosis was grave and that he didn’t think he could save you? Many who were involved in my recovery and said I was a walking miracle. Did the similar staff say the same about YOU? Yeah…my “dick” IS “longer” than yours.

Third: This insane “comparison” of yours about who works w/ what….esp. their hands is a new low for YOU. I was bucking 80 pound bales of hay at the age of 12. I mowed lawns delivered newspapers starting at age 8. I lettered in three sports all three years of high school….while continuing to work on the farm in the summers. I’ve “worked” w/ my hands all my life. It is this “work” that inspired me to use my head and seek better ways to do it and have those ways patented and give me a comfortable life in which I still enjoy “working w/ my hands” while using MY HEAD to help others “get on their feet” and work w/ theirs. I use MY HEAD to promote a whole lot of other “ideas” that benefit society as a whole. In fact, it is highly likely that YOU actually PERSONALLY use at least one of them.

I guess that would be what YOU are calling MY “whatever”.
YOU really ought to “get a clue” about how our American society actually “works”…both figuratively and literally.
THEN MAYBE…(“possibly” is only a haze right now)…just maybe ya’ll be able to drop your bigoted biases,,,stop listening to the hateful, biased, ulterior-motivated pundits that ya gobble up their shit because it helps keep YOU “rooted” in those biases. Doing this is “antithetical-learning”. Ceasing to learn & expand (via an OPEN MIND) is “social death”….which simply leads to ideologies that just STINK.

 
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Your doing so only serves to make your positions ON THE FORUM HERE look like those of a raving, RANTING lunatic.

And there’s no better way of addressing these concerns by sounding like a raving, ranting lunatic, yourself, right?

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

First: as vika can well attest, each patient is different. The 2nd surgery where I obtained the staff infection was 8 hours long….rather than the typical 2 hour for bypass.

Yes, unfortunately, I can. Jhco, you used to claim, you played a doctor on the stage. Did that little ficticious environment not teach you something about the differences in patient responses?

Every patient has different genetics, different active protein receptors (and so differeint responses to different drugs), different tolerance thresholds, different allergies, different arterial wall thicknesses, and of course, different ongoing infections in various places, both seen and unseen at the time of surgery.

It’s why anasthetics can only be given by trained specialist anasthesiologists, for example. There are eight commonly used general anaesthetics for this reason. Any given hospital is going to be equipped with all eight. Why? Because there is no way of knowing how a patient will react to a given anasthetic, so they may need to switch.

Every part of healthcare is the same, with individual patient differences getting in the way, more often than not. This is why the emerging field of personalised medicine is so dang important. Tailoring treatment to each specific individual and their needs. No two are ever going to be the same, and where one would always die, another will live.

Karma was extremely lucky, no getting around that. Your operation was performed on a different individual, and so had completely different results. On the flipside, an operation which kills you, Karma may well sail through without a hitch, even if both are performed by the same surgical team with the same level of preop and postop care in the same hospital. Your ‘working with your hands’ has nothing to do with it.

 
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Umbrella prices force people to stand in the rain.