Obamacare Causes Companies to Cut Hours page 6

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Karma, Obamacare hurts poor people. It gives money to the rich insurance companies, while neglecting the very poor, and making it harder for the medical industries to treat the sick.
Sources:
https://www.nationalreview.com/nrd/articles/309260/how-obamacare-harms-poor?pg=2
http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2012/08/02/no-mr-president-obamacare-will-hurt-blacks-and-hispanics/
http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/06/liberals-why-are-you-celebrating-obamacare/

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by MyTie:

Sources:

Fucking finally!

A quick glance at my posts shows that I often provide sources for my assertions, especially if I’m making an assertion that requires evidence, and isn’t based on simple logic. On the first page of my posts (click the “928 posts” under “MyTie”) you’ll find at least 5 of my posts with links to source material. This isn’t uncommon for me.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

A quick glance at my posts shows that I often provide sources for my assertions, especially if I’m making an assertion that requires evidence, and isn’t based on simple logic. On the first page of my posts (click the “928 posts” under “MyTie”) you’ll find at least 5 of my posts with links to source material. This isn’t uncommon for me. Don’t act like it is.

I was speaking generally, because there are a few people who do not post links, barely do, or sometimes the links are full of bull. I said it this time because I didn’t have to edit the post that much and because because.

Originally posted by MyTie:
However, a quick glance at your posts shows a bunch of one line snide comments without a single reference on the front page, save a sarcastic link to “machoism”. No even well formed arguments. You are a hypocrite, and a lousy one, and inaccurate.

Stupid time, why don’t you work for me?

Originally posted by MyTie:
However, a quick glance at your posts shows a bunch of one line snide comments without a single reference on the front page,

But did I need any? Didn’t think about that, did’ja? Yeah… I win.

save a sarcastic link to “machoism”.

I don’t think I was being sarcasic with that.

Also, it’s spelled “Masochism”.

No even well formed arguments.

I from my arguments good…

You are a hypocrite,

I wasn’t saying everyone should, just that it’s surprisingly uncommon.

and a lousy one,

Wait, if I’m a lousy hyppocrite, doesn’t that mean that I don’t contradict myself much?

and inaccurate.

’Splain.

 
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Let’s keep this on topic.

 
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Dare I even ask what a cakeburger is?

@MyTie: Just repost the deleted post. Perhaps change the wording to be somewhat less confrontational. It was something about how national health care systems are supposed to be unfair to the poor, wasn’t it? I do remember it was short on words and long on links. Perhaps reverse that?

 
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Originally posted by Zshadow:

Let’s keep this on topic.

Does ranting about Papa John count? Because I can do that.

Originally posted by vikaTae:

Dare I even ask what a cakeburger is?

It’s like a hamburger, only cake.

EDIT:

Originally posted by vikaTae:

@MyTie: Just repost the deleted post. Perhaps change the wording to be somewhat less confrontational. It was something about how national health care systems are supposed to be unfair to the poor, wasn’t it? I do remember it was short on words and long on links. Perhaps reverse that?

They got put back up.

 
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Thanks for putting my posts back up. I tailored them to be less confrontational.

 
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Not all health coverage is created equal. A plastic card in your wallet with the word “insurance” on it doesn’t guarantee that you’ll have access to the medical care you need, when you need it. And that is the fundamental problem with Obamacare: It expands coverage without any regard to the value, or the quality, of that coverage.

From MyTie’s 1st source, "How Obamacare Harms the Poor "

Unfortunately, that’s the way we have to do it. Right now, our health system is so rediculously broken, that any reform has to be done in stages. Like with the economy, things may get worse before they get better, but I honestly see no other way to approach it, other than scuttling the entire insurance system and starting afresh.

Even if there was general public support for such a scheme, at this point we simply cannot afford it. Too many wars and a housing bubble burst have drained our coffers dry.

Instead, incremental change is about all we can do, slowly changing the old system a piece at a time. I do agree with you that the insurance companies themselves are the problem, but if we eliminate them all at once, we won’t have a health system at all. The system needs to be patched with what resources we have, and with as much legislation as we can navigate through the partizan meatgrinder warzone that is congress. They’re too busy taking pot-shots at each other to concentrate on what the country needs, so we’re only going to get partial changes through at a time.

If it was an ideal world, we’d see a funding cap on each procedure in a given region. No matter what the source of funding, they won’t be permitted to pay for you, more than $x. If you want a higher degree of treatment, pay the excess yourself. $x being enough to fund the treatment to a basic sustainable level. If a clinic refuses a patient for that level, haul them in front of the general medical council.

there are some clinics that are in it only for the money. Every country has them. It is a long and difficult process to weed them out, but it is an essential one. We don’t even have the infrastructure in place to do that much.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:
Originally posted by issendorf:
Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

How is it possible the Netherlands (and other countries) are capable of providing health care for everyone, and the US is too poor for that?

Because those nations have the US to provide for their defense.

Since you usually don’t joke around, I’m going to have to assume you’re serious. Is this about national debt? Debt divided by amount of people? Are you suggesting that America’s costs (inefficient costs do not count in full) are higher than those countries that do have public health care, and that there is a direct link between this and the suggested idea that America’s spending on defense aids those countries for free?

I’m half joking since it isn’t nearly that simplistic. The Netherlands spends 1% of their GDP on Defense. I’m suggesting that since one of the most expensive ticket items for most nation’s budgets, defense, is largely absent in Europe. This allows nations to put, what I would call lavish, social programs on the budget instead. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t the only reason, but it’s certainly a major reason. I wasn’t talking about healthcare costs in general, just more of a budgetary point.

 
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You are a socialist, pure and simple. The problem we have is I look at things logically and you look at them as a fool.

Civility Now guys, c’mon.

Now tell me what was wrong with the old system, you know, the representative republic? What makes you think we want socialism? Oh right, you, Karma, and the foreigners want it. The destruction of America. It will no longer be known as the country of the free and the brave, but the land of the druggies and welfare recipients.

and the majority of the voting populace it seems – wouldn’t they be those who put the “representative” in representative republic? I understand you do not like the way things are heading, perhaps even they will be the worse of two evils. They are however, popular. There is not some phantom elite pushing these ideas but the great mob which defines the broader spectrum of your political system. You are pinning this on nebulous disenfranchised “others” that you don’t identify with.

Now, I’m not a big fan of the welfare system as is, or just about any. But drug abuse and welfare aren’t exactly the same as Nationalized healthcare.

Everyone is in it for the money! They have to pay off their student loans and make a living. You people just don’t have a lick of sense, do you?

Speak for yourself. All my bohemian bretheren would make fun of me if I started chasing after dollars :( At the end of the day, believe it or not, there are people with concerns beyond the bottom line. It certainly isn’t all the people all the time, but I certainly didn’t feel included in that sweeping platitude.

 
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Insurance companies make a bet with you that you will never get sick and you make a bet with them you will.

If you want to look at it in gambling terms, with UHC it’s the government that makes a bet with you. You pay your national insurance contributions, and if they lose you get paid out with health care. The only real differences here are that the bet is compulsory for all those who can afford it, and that the government doesn’t exclude anyone for having a pre-existing condition. It takes on everybody, whatever the risk, no exceptions. If you are out of work, they pay the premiums for you. You can ditch your insurance company and have a cheaper bet with a different bookie, and get a better deal and a better payout.

And as for the “socialism” argument, you really ought to find out what it means. While the ideals of the NHS are rooted in the labour movement, it is accepted and supported by everyone. This is an extract from the election manifesto of the British National Party – the neo-nazis.

• The BNP will end the scandalous situation of NHS underfunding by reallocating money from the foreign aid budget. The reported NHS deficit is £620 million and the current foreign aid budget is £9.1 billion.

• The BNP will increase spending on front line staff while cutting back bureaucracy in the NHS.

• The BNP will end the £2 billion per year “health tourism” scandal.

So the most right wing party in mainstream British politics, the one that makes even you look like a leftie, not only supports the NHS, it wants to improve it and spend more money on it. So much for “ZOMG it’s a socialist conspiracy”.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Why do you keep saying our health system when you don’t even claim America as yours except when it conveniently suits you? You don’t live here, remember? You don’t like it here and have stated so. You live abroad and that seems to work for both you and us.

Actually, what I stated was: It is not possible for me to remain in the US and pursue my career of choice. The US lags far behind in the field of sensory interfaces. If I wish to do the most good, I have to work abroad, in a country willing to push the bleeding edge.

I also stated I absolutely loathe the UK.

I also stated my family and friends remain behind. Do you not give one whit what happens to family or friends who aren’t currently living in the same town as you? Because that is certainly what you are implying here, Jhco.

As I said before, I’ll return if we can ever drag the US, kicking and screaming, out of the medical technology dark ages. Until then, its better to work where I really can cut the bleeding edge. As a plus point, I still work with the US military, as they don’t have anything even close to the iLimb. The LukeArm is still years behind us. So, my work abroad is dirctly benefiting the US. Can you say the same, about your work, whatever you’re currently doing?

The economy will no doubt get worse, look who is leading us. Economists predict the recession that is going to hit us this next year will be worse than the first. More home foreclosures and jobs lost (already showing up), higher gas prices, and more people on government assistance. What a wonderful country we will have.

The economy has been improving steadily. Are these the same sourceless economists you’ve mentioned talking to before, and who have repeatedly been wrong before?

It’ll be a long time coming, getting all the way out of this slump, but getting out, we are.

Now tell me what was wrong with the old system, you know, the representative republic?

The EC? It doesn’t accurately reflect the people’s votes. It takes an aggregate instead.

What has the voting system got to do with healthcare though?

What makes you think we want socialism?

We have a socialist police force, a socialist fire bregade, a socialist school system, why not a socialist healthcare system? Let every support system that supplies the basic rights of every citizen be socialist, and let every system that deals with priviledges and optional extras be capitalist. What’s wrong with that?

Besides, all the support systems are socialisit / capitalist hybrids anyway. That’s how they should be; the best of both worlds.

Oh right, you, Karma, and the foreigners want it. The destruction of America. It will no longer be known as the country of the free and the brave, but the land of the druggies and welfare recipients.

Sure. Sure. The land is erupting in fire, and rivers of brimstone are pouring through the hills. If you look up, you can see dragons and flying unicorns skreeching through the sky. When you’re out and about, you can sometimes barely see the sky for the hoards of flying pigs tinting the once-blue a crimson red.

That’s the world you’re living in, right? The one where America’s a long-dead ruin filled with infiri?

The rest of us live in the real world, where the country – all countries – ebb and flow over time, to the will of the citizens living in them. If you wish to go back to America-that-was, go ahead. you’ll die of dysentry out in the wilds somewhere, and die proudly (if painfully), knowing you’re dying how the founding fathers meant for you to die – in the same conditions as they had back then.

The rest of us, will move with the times, and a living country – not a dead one.

If it was an ideal world we wouldn’t have a butt hole, know-nothing, socialist fool for a president….again.

Good thing we don’t have one then, isn’t it? He’s a conservative, just a smigin right of center.

Now let me explain again. Insurance companies will cease to exist and we will be made to go on obamacare.

I agree with you here, but that’s long-term. I doubt it’ll be called Obamacare either. It’ll reach that stage long after he’s left office. Baby steps Jhco, baby steps.

This is to the exclusion of Washington which exempted themselves because they have good healthcare.

Washington will change too. The whole system will change. It’ll just take time, and a shitload of effort.

Everyone is in it for the money! They have to pay off their student loans and make a living. You people just don’t have a lick of sense, do you?

Very few medical professionals go into it for the money. Yes, large sums of money are avilable, but to get them, you have to work godless long hours. What’ the point of having money when you’ve no free time to spend it? Besides, after a certain point, money becomes just a tool. Something to help you get what you need out of life. There’s no point to accruing it for its own sake.

I certainly didn’t go into this for the money. No paramedic did, no nurse did, no intern certainly did. You do it because you care about others. Given the nature of your post above, and most of your arguments, this may be a foreign concept to you, but I’m sure others will understand where I m coming from.

you do it because you wish to change things. You keep on doing it because you wish to change things, no matter how long it takes. If I wished to earn more, I’d go for a technical consultant job down in London, pull in £250,000 a year. I wouldn’t be happy, but money’s all that matters, right?

Wrong. Instead, I’m up here in Lothian district, earning less than a quarter of that. But I’m making progress at real change, and that’s what matters. I’m not alone either.

 
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Second post to address Beau, somewhat different tone:

This is an extract from the election manifesto of the British National Party – the neo-nazis.

• The BNP will end the scandalous situation of NHS underfunding by reallocating money from the foreign aid budget. The reported NHS deficit is £620 million and the current foreign aid budget is £9.1 billion.

• The BNP will increase spending on front line staff while cutting back bureaucracy in the NHS.

• The BNP will end the £2 billion per year “health tourism” scandal.

Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with all of that, I can’t support the BNP. (Literally can’t as well, I’m not permitted a vote in local elections.)

1. I’m a dirty foreigner
2. i’m a woman, in a job no less!
3. Those I work with in my :ahem: ‘side-business’, are all disabled individuals. Whilst I despise the dangling-drawn out process of changing DLA to PIP (and with it throwing into uncertainty my chances of getting paid), there’s no way in hell the BNP would permit disabled individuals to have equal-citizen status, let alone benefits to help them cope with the worst life has to offer.

 
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Gun sales is up 400% again.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Gun sales is up 400% again.

And I present the three "S"s: So? Source? Should I care?

 
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I’m a dirty foreigner

Come down to London, you’d fit in very well. It’s warmer down here too.

i’m a woman, in a job no less!

That’s been allowed for several years now. The job, that is. Women have always been allowed, as long as they kept quiet.

Those I work with in my :ahem: ‘side-business’, are all disabled individuals. Whilst I despise the dangling-drawn out process of changing DLA to PIP (and with it throwing into uncertainty my chances of getting paid), there’s no way in hell the BNP would permit disabled individuals to have equal-citizen status, let alone benefits to help them cope with the worst life has to offer.

Unless you’re a war hero, of course. I do realise that, but I was trying to make a simple point to a very one track minded individual.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Gun sales is up 400% again.

If true, it’s because paranoid gun owners, who have zero reason to think anything will happen, are all running scared and buying all the hardware they can get their ignorant, crazy hands on.
You know who likes it when gun owners get paranoid?
Gun manufacturers.

A bunch of stupid hicks are freaking out, and soon I won’t be able to afford going to the range, due to spiked demand and prices for ammo.

Producers are laughing all the way to the bank while these idiots scramble around, thinking a President that has already expanded gun rights is now going to 180 and come after your guns.

Morons.

/completelyunrelatedtotopic

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

I’m a dirty foreigner

Come down to London, you’d fit in very well. It’s warmer down here too.

Any ideas how I move my house and my land? A rough shapeless meander of a field and some forest of roughly a hectaire in size, might be kinda conspicuous draped over London. I could do without the snow though, that is true. I’m not leaving it behind unless I have to.

My dad grew up here, and its all I have left of him – albeit the house has been expanded somewhat – part of the current mess used to be a barn. Yes, I sleep in a (ex) barn :P


i’m a woman, in a job no less!

That’s been allowed for several years now. The job, that is. Women have always been allowed, as long as they kept quiet.

Not by the BNP it wouldn’t be! They’ve always been kinda…backward about social roles.

Unless you’re a war hero, of course. I do realise that, but I was trying to make a simple point to a very one track minded individual.

Yea, I know :P, but there’s a fair amount of talk about them, south of the border. I do worry sometimes, that they stand a chance of conquering the northern English counties. A great health policy aside, I’d rather not live next to a Nazi country.

Not that Cameron isn’t trying for one of those anyway, but you get my point.