Obesity apologist

150 posts

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I get so upset over obesity. I was in a hospital today and I saw a old lady, maybe 70 or possibly 80’s moping the floors. And while I could have gone off on many tangents the thing that popped up in my mind, is that all over this country, there are men and women who didn’t take care of their body’s, who indulged in their “right” to eat whatever they wanted. And now that they are older and not able to carry around all that weight like they could have when they were younger, they are sitting at home living their life off of other peoples money because they are on disability. Those people aggravate the hell out of me.

Being grossly overweight shouldn’t be a right. Getting spaces closer to the store because you are to fat to park further away is ridiculous. Stop eating. Stop ruining my country. You liberals want health care for everyone?!? Do you know how much cheaper health care insurance would be if people stop being morons and stopped smoking and eating? Stopped flooding their body’s with alcohol? I hate that you kids grow up thinking you can do whatever the hell you want because your parents will fund you and if all else fails the government will bail you out.

Oh and parents who have overweight children. You are pathetic. Its one thing if you yourself are overweight. I have sympathy for you all. Sure Im annoyed that you dont take care of you body but I’m always hopeful you will change. But parents who let their kids get grossly overweight… you adults are pathetic and should never have been allowed to have children. Why is it a right to have children anyways? Okay that is all.

 
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I agree with the obese kids thing. Any parent that grows obese kids is, effectively, abusing their children. I saw a six year old girl in wal mart who was fat fat fat. I wanted to punch her fat fat fat mom directly in the face as hard I possible could. Of course, I can’t. I can’t even say anything. That would get me in trouble, and not change anything. You want to eat your own fat self into death, fine, but feed your kids healthy stuff.

Part of it is being strong enough to tell the kid no. In fact, right before I read this thread, I ate a bowl of ice cream in front of my 4 year old, and let him eat a banana instead. Neither of us is fat, but I usually make him do the healthier thing. Also, he still hasn’t eaten all of his halloween candy. I let him eat about a piece a week. The funny thing is, he is totally happy eating fruits and vegetables. He doesn’t even really think about candy. He just knows that he isn’t going to get it, so he learns to be happy and content with what is good for him.

 
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Uh, pac….not sure how to address the non-ranting parts of your post, but I will try.

I think that some people are probably willfully lazy in their obesity, this is true. On this note, let me point out that I know some really skinny hardworking liberal people (one of my dearest friends is dying of pulmonary fibrosis after a long life of hard work) and some seriously fat and lazy conservative people. I don’t think weight has much of a relationship with party affiliation.

Second, it’s hard to always tell by looking at an overweight person what is going on. Maybe they just gave birth and are bloated? I’m overweight right now and I suppose someone could look at me right now and stereotype, but I’m on Weight Watchers and it’s been on the decline for a while. I also battle a hypothyroid problem, a metabolic hindrance to losing it. But I make sure my kids eat right and are thin, so that’s something.

Other than some exceptions, I guess you could place the willfully fat and lazy people into the same group as those who are willfully unemployed and on public assistance—those who don’t expect much out of themselves, have no aspirations, and want a free ride. Was that the main point you were trying to convey?

 
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Part of it is being strong enough to tell the kid no. In fact, right before I read this thread, I ate a bowl of ice cream in front of my 4 year old, and let him eat a banana instead. Neither of us is fat, but I usually make him do the healthier thing.

I like how self-congratulatory you’re being here, for effectively demonstrating what an awful parent you are.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:
Part of it is being strong enough to tell the kid no. In fact, right before I read this thread, I ate a bowl of ice cream in front of my 4 year old, and let him eat a banana instead. Neither of us is fat, but I usually make him do the healthier thing.

I like how self-congratulatory you’re being here, for effectively demonstrating what an awful parent you are.

Hey now, how am I awful?

 
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Look, I don’t have kids so I can’t speak with any authority, but if i were in that kid’s shoes, the only message i’d get from that is “I’m an adult so i get to eat this icecream and you get the banana.” Maybe you think parents should take it upon themselves to demonstrate how life isn’t fair but that’s a mean lesson to learn by eating ice cream right in front of your kid and not giving him any. If anything, it probably sets him up with a chip on his shoulder so he can splurge when he’s older and out of the house.

 
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My philosophy on this is to feed the kids what you eat and teach them how much to eat. It used to bug me when my family in Texas would eat steak and feed the kids hot dogs.

I don’ eat as much as I used to because I don’t work like I used to. Don’t sleep that well either because I don’t get as tired and my mind won’t shut down.

 
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The old “Psychological illnesses are not illnesses but stupidity and stubborness and can easily be changed!!!1” argument.
Oh how I missed seeing this one.

 
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I have a friend who is obese and stupid.
When ever I ask him to go with me running etc.
He says " I don’t want to, I am proud to be fat"
One day few of us were playin foot ball (soccer for you americans) and I called him as I knew he like to play foot ball.
He came but was all grumpy, his attitude was clearly showing that he thinks we are playin g football so he can play with us and lose some weight.
I got pissed on him and I told him to f off

 
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@Punisher—well I guess he’ll be proud to have diabetes and heart disease before long :-) There’s only so much you can do. It’s his (stupid) choice.

 
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Better to do what you want and die sooner; than live a routine that you dread until your body collapses.

 
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Originally posted by pacaholic:

And now that they are older and not able to carry around all that weight like they could have when they were younger, they are sitting at home living their life off of other peoples money because they are on disability.

You are aware that in a lot of cases, the weight signifies an actual physical problem that is not their fault, right?

For example, someone whose legs have given up due to joint problems, or circulation issues, or unmanaged chronic pain, is going to put on weight quite quickly after the issue becomes critical, as most cardiovascular exercise relies on use of the legs. Without them working right, their intake is going to exceed their output, and weight problems will begin to build.

In other cases, you have more extreme condiitions like elephantitis where bodyparts swell drastically (and painfully) due to a parasitic infection interacting badly with the immune system. Its not fat you’re seeing, but massive tissue inflammation.

In still other cases you have disabilities such as diabetes, which itself causes the patient to put on weight, due to the imbalance between insulin and consumption. In these cases again, the increased weight is not caused by laziness, but rather by an imbalance in sugar levels in the bloodstream (which triggers converting of sugars to fats, for long-term storage).

So when you look at someone who seems to be obese, don’t jump to the conclusion that they’re lazy. Look at other factors. If they are walking funny or using an aid, chances are the obesity was caused by their disability rather than the other way around. Same if they’re using a disabled parking space – they have a serious underlying health problem that is likely causing it.

If the extra weight is focussed on a particular body-area, again, its likely inflammation not fat. Even lupus willcause impressive swelling if its not properly controlled. There are still other unseen possible complications, such as type 2 diabetes, to contend with. Some of the remainder will be lazy yes, but by no means all of them.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

Look, I don’t have kids so I can’t speak with any authority, but if i were in that kid’s shoes, the only message i’d get from that is “I’m an adult so i get to eat this icecream and you get the banana.” Maybe you think parents should take it upon themselves to demonstrate how life isn’t fair but that’s a mean lesson to learn by eating ice cream right in front of your kid and not giving him any. If anything, it probably sets him up with a chip on his shoulder so he can splurge when he’s older and out of the house.

Since I wasn’t fair with my kid, and ice cream, I’m an awful parent? Maybe my actions weren’t ideal, but I’m not an awful parent due to that. I’ve never been fair with my kids, or tried to be their friend. I teach them to be grateful for what they have. When they deserve a reward, it is my responsible to reward them. When they deserve punishment, it is my responsibility to punish them. You can take most any kid their age to compare to, and they will be better behaved, healthier, and happier.

I don’t treat my kids as my equal, and make sure things are fair between them and me. My kids aren’t my equal. They are my kids. I give them no illusions otherwise.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

Look, I don’t have kids so I can’t speak with any authority, but if i were in that kid’s shoes, the only message i’d get from that is “I’m an adult so i get to eat this icecream and you get the banana.” Maybe you think parents should take it upon themselves to demonstrate how life isn’t fair but that’s a mean lesson to learn by eating ice cream right in front of your kid and not giving him any. If anything, it probably sets him up with a chip on his shoulder so he can splurge when he’s older and out of the house.

So, I’m an awful parent because I’m not fair with the ice cream?

I reward when reward is due, and punish when punishment is due. My kids are healthier, happier, and better behaved than other children their age. They are eager to help and please. I am not their friend. I’ve never tried to be, nor wanted to be. I’m their dad. They are not my equal. They are my children. I am consistently of that mentality. Things are not “fair” between me and them. There has never been any illusion otherwise, nor should there be.

 
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overweight is rarely solely caused by some kind of physiological disfunction. yes, such vulnerabilities exists, but usually it only makes someone vulnerable to become overweight. but it’s usually still at least in part their own fault that they do become overweight; or at least much of the degree of their overweightness is their own fault.

the percentage of people from one developed country to the next that are overweight can drastically differ from like about 10% to about 50%. so that means that the bulk of overweight issues are not humanly inherent.

sure someone that is obese has the inherent ability to become obese, and they may likely point to this vulnerability as some physiological defect, but it’s a weak excuse. you typically still need to overeat and maybe underexercise to become drastically overweight, and the only thing any physciological defect contributes is that this overeating can make you obese in the first place…it’s still the overeating that makes you obese.

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:

The old “Psychological illnesses are not illnesses but stupidity and stubborness and can easily be changed!!!1” argument.
Oh how I missed seeing this one.

I feel as though this is just an excuse to justify your feeling bad for fat people lol.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by pacaholic:

And now that they are older and not able to carry around all that weight like they could have when they were younger, they are sitting at home living their life off of other peoples money because they are on disability.

You are aware that in a lot of cases, the weight signifies an actual physical problem that is not their fault, right?

For example, someone whose legs have given up due to joint problems, or circulation issues, or unmanaged chronic pain, is going to put on weight quite quickly after the issue becomes critical, as most cardiovascular exercise relies on use of the legs. Without them working right, their intake is going to exceed their output, and weight problems will begin to build.

In other cases, you have more extreme condiitions like elephantitis where bodyparts swell drastically (and painfully) due to a parasitic infection interacting badly with the immune system. Its not fat you’re seeing, but massive tissue inflammation.

In still other cases you have disabilities such as diabetes, which itself causes the patient to put on weight, due to the imbalance between insulin and consumption. In these cases again, the increased weight is not caused by laziness, but rather by an imbalance in sugar levels in the bloodstream (which triggers converting of sugars to fats, for long-term storage).

So when you look at someone who seems to be obese, don’t jump to the conclusion that they’re lazy. Look at other factors. If they are walking funny or using an aid, chances are the obesity was caused by their disability rather than the other way around. Same if they’re using a disabled parking space – they have a serious underlying health problem that is likely causing it.

If the extra weight is focussed on a particular body-area, again, its likely inflammation not fat. Even lupus willcause impressive swelling if its not properly controlled. There are still other unseen possible complications, such as type 2 diabetes, to contend with. Some of the remainder will be lazy yes, but by no means all of them.

I’m sure this is present. However, I’m also sure that these conditions do not include most fat people. A lot of people are fat simply because they refuse to put down the fork and exercise.

 
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Originally posted by scoopolard:

I’m sure this is present. However, I’m also sure that these conditions do not include most fat people.

They include a fair proportion.

You also have other complications. For example, someone who is obese, is more likely to develop diabetes in the first place, which then greatly complicates their ability to shed the pounds, as even healthy food such as fruit, winds up having the fructose in it, converted into fats.

Even with kids, if the kid is overweight, it is as likely to have a medical cause as not. You cannot look at the kid in isolation, and have to consider the whole family. If the kid is overweight, and the parents are slim, or another sibling is slim, then that all points to a medical cause, not an ‘abuse’ cause.

Conditions such as muscular distrophy tend to produce rather fat individuals, because the muscles in their body are in a continuous state of atrophy – exercise only slows the process, doesn’t stop it. The more the muscles atrophy, the less exercise they’re physically able to do. They always end up confined to an electric wheelchair even if they exercise daily, assuming they live long enough to reach this stage (the heart is muscle, after all).

In other words, don’t tar everyone with the same brush until you know the facts.

 
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I do find this an interesting detail of, as he mentioned, National Healthcare. Whether it be systematic obesity, smoking, biking without a helmet, ect. What do we do with “intentional self endangerment”? Where there is an alternative, common, safer option that is specifically eschewed.

Should we be bottom of the listing people who “knew better”? Or deny them relevant coverage entirely?

I myself smoke (bad me). As much as I’d hate to be denied relevant healthcare on that basis, I’d have a hard time arguing my case in lieu of someone who is unlucky as opposed to inherently self destructive. The idea that I’d have to cover the bill, or be last in line, seems like a fair suggestion. I feel as a society we have an obligation to foster strength as opposed to weakness. Spending public funds on saving people from themselves strikes me as a waste of money.

Back to obesity, what makes me furious is the deliberate mystification of it by corporate interests and obese apologists themselves. Calories in, calories out. Unless there are other complicating factors, it is a simple process. People don’t run on rainbows and glitter, or the power of hope. If you burn more calories then you consume, you will drop weight. Or you’re magic.

 
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I have long-argued for this, Ung. Those who suffer from bronchitis, exascerbated asthma, or lung cancer as a direct result of their own smoking, should be dropped lower down the lists to those who develop the same conditions without a smoking habit.

However, at the same time, we must then make sure we have a comprehensive ‘quit smoking’ health plan in place, to help wean those off the cigarettes we can, and mitigate the listing punishments according to the number of years they have been ‘cold turkey’.

At the same time, it is also our responsibility to try and develop methods of allowing people to keep the habit up, without the same detrimental health effects. This then covers those who cannot quit smoking, usually because the habit has become their main stress relief in a very stressful job.

We see similar things with alcoholics, where alcoholics with liver poisoning are denied replacement liver tissue, becuse tissue is in short supply, and they will quickly kill it off again.

With obesity, the NHS can wire their jaws shut if necessary to minimise further calorie intake – this is considered a lifesaving procedure, and is a method of last resort. Liposuction is also available, but as this is not a vital procedure, they can get that from any private clinic – be prepared to pay.

As it is, obesity costs us tens of millions, as special extra-wide wheelchairs with reinforced weight bearing capability are needed for the chronically obese, as are wider doorways to navigate those chairs through, and the obesity exacerbates any existing conditions they have, whilst simultaneously putting a strain on their joints, their cardiovascular system, and their immune system.

 
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well there are dozens of countries with universal health-care. perhaps look into how they do it?

cigarettes for instance, in theory you pay for the extra health costs you create for the society you live in through the excise tax on the merchandise.

 
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Omega, I’m living in one of those, and working in two of them. Occsionally, four of them. I think I have at least some passing aquaintance with how universal healthcare systems work.

 
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i know that. it wasn’t strictly a response to you, i believe Ungeziefer brought it up.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:


As it is, obesity costs us tens of millions, as special extra-wide wheelchairs with reinforced weight bearing capability are needed for the chronically obese, as are wider doorways to navigate those chairs through, and the obesity exacerbates any existing conditions they have, whilst simultaneously putting a strain on their joints, their cardiovascular system, and their immune system.

Wouldn’t lapband surgery in these instances be easier and cheaper for everyone? I know I was looking into it out of pocket in the local area, and I think it ran around 8K.