Obesity apologist page 5

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uhm…i don’t know where you live, but over here most vegetables are way cheeper. one potato or one onion is at most 5 cents.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

uhm…i don’t know where you live, but over here most vegetables are way cheeper. one potato or one onion is at most 5 cents.

OK…I live in Colorado. Before that I lived in California. In Colorado, foodstamps will buy you food items, but your food stamp mileage will go way farther with 0.33 ramen noodles than it will with fresh cheeses and meat….just saying. When I used a food closet in California, they gave away a lot of day old loaves of bread. Tasted great, but super high in carbs, and that was when I began to put on the weight.

I think although a lot of Americans are obese, they’re nutritionally starved—in other words, they’re getting plenty of “calories”, but not enough appropriate nutrients to balance their bodies out the way they were meant to.

You might want to watch the documentary Super Size Me, if you haven’t already. It’s really illuminating about this kind of thing, and the damage that cheap food is doing to us.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

uhm…i don’t know where you live, but over here most vegetables are way cheeper. one potato or one onion is at most 5 cents.

OK…I live in Colorado. Before that I lived in California. In Colorado, foodstamps will buy you food items, but your food stamp mileage will go way farther with 0.33 ramen noodles than it will with fresh cheeses and meat….just saying. When I used a food closet in California, they gave away a lot of day old loaves of bread. Tasted great, but super high in carbs, and that was when I began to put on the weight.

I think although a lot of Americans are obese, they’re nutritionally starved—in other words, they’re getting plenty of “calories”, but not enough appropriate nutrients to balance their bodies out the way they were meant to.

You might want to watch the documentary Super Size Me, if you haven’t already. It’s really illuminating about this kind of thing, and the damage that cheap food is doing to us.

And there’s the nub of the problem. Tons of fat, salt and sugar dressed up and presented as food. It’s super-convenient and on the face of it very cheap. It’s also addictive. Considering what it does to your body, it’s really not cheap at all in the long run, especially in America where you are expected to pay for your own heart bypass surgery. If you shop sensibly, it is possible to beat them on price and produce a nutritious and filling meal.

Much of the problem comes down to that old favourite – education, or rather lack of it. When I was in primary school (age 5-11) they used to teach cookery and basic nutrition under the banner of domestic science. It was for girls only (boys did woodwork), but there’s no reason why it should be. It was dropped in later years, probably through PC fear of stereotyping, and it really ought to have a place in modern schools. If parents feed their kids with rubbish, those kids grow up believing that one of these babies is a proper meal. And so the ignorance gets passed down the generations.

 
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well, if you require food stamps from the government, what retarded government is gonna make those foodstamps tradable for fast food? that’s just fucking stupid. (not to mention transfats and genetically engineered soy)

so there we have it. it’s a stupid culture thing.

 
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Wow. Did you even read anything I wrote? You are stubborn. Allow me to try again by reposting it here:

In Colorado, foodstamps will buy you food items, but your food stamp mileage will go way farther with 0.33 ramen noodles than it will with fresh cheeses and meat….just saying. When I used a food closet in California, they gave away a lot of day old loaves of bread. Tasted great, but super high in carbs, and that was when I began to put on the weight.

Those were grocery store items. Obviously, a lot of Americans turn to fast food as well, because it is very cheap, but that wasn’t part of the food stamp argument.

 
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then what did you mean by that?

 
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Mean by what? The link to the perils of fast food consumption?

I meant, in a nutshell, that high carbohydrate, low quality food is all around us, and is pushed on the public in general. It tends to be more prominent and more affordable. Eating healthy is possible, but it takes more personal commitment and education, and is an uphill battle.

I’m actually really glad documentaries like Super Size Me came out, and shamed the fast food industry into introducing healthier options into their menus.

 
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i mean does anyone even realise that 100 gram of chocolate equals your entire dayly intake of vegetables, pasta/potatoes and meat? i sure didn’t until i happened to compare calories.

There is something wrong with your math here. I don’t mean to pedantic but do you want to hash out the numbers?

starch or no starch, they have pretty much all just about 1 kcal/kg, which is really low. i checked. potatoes, as per your examples, is only 0.85 kcal/kg. i’m using Dutch sources, hence why i’m not linking, look it up. (although i’m getting highly fluctuating data on french fries :/)

That seems about right for potatoes, I believe I said they’d be just shy of 1 for 1. The French Fry data is probably accounting for what they are deep friend in, various oils and what not.

right. that shows quite well that you probably just wanna satisfy yourself on vegetables. that should keep you from “rewarding” yourself for your efforts by ruining them with treats.

I was trying to illustrate more that food is a product. It is marketed to increase sales, not to provide accurate personalized dietary information.

 
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Calories in 100g of chocolate:- 520.0 (Carbohydrate 57.0g, Protein 7.5g, Fat 29.8g, Fibre 0.7g) [Will vary, but this is for a popular British chocolate]

My base metabolic rate is circa 2,000 calories per day (source)

So, purely in terms of calories, I could eat approx 400g of chocolate OR 7Kg of carrots (17cal/60g) OR 2.66Kg of potatoes (75cal/100g) for example.

So I’m not sure where your 1cal/kg comes from… 1cal/g maybe?

Obviously these wouldn’t represent a healthy diet.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:

Mean by what? The link to the perils of fast food consumption?

I meant, in a nutshell, that high carbohydrate, low quality food is all around us, and is pushed on the public in general. It tends to be more prominent and more affordable. Eating healthy is possible, but it takes more personal commitment and education, and is an uphill battle.

I’m actually really glad documentaries like Super Size Me came out, and shamed the fast food industry into introducing healthier options into their menus.

no, with the food stamp argument. so far i’ve figured “0.33” is a quantity, “ramen noodles” is an asian take-away dish, and i figure “fresh cheeses and meat” is possibly the more expensive elements of a balanced diet. but i have no idea what that surmounts to, if it’s not what i had previously assumed based on the context of the discussion.

There is something wrong with your math here. I don’t mean to pedantic but do you want to hash out the numbers?

i see donseptico chrunched the numbers for me. that should work.

I was trying to illustrate more that food is a product. It is marketed to increase sales, not to provide accurate personalized dietary information.

oh. well i wasn’t complaining about marketing of food…i mean i’d gladly debate the evils of marketing but that’s seems quite tangential. i was talking about health advice from civil agencies and education system and all that stuff, and the common popular cultural way of talking about food.

So I’m not sure where your 1cal/kg comes from… 1cal/g maybe?

ah. i see i misconverted that. the whole colloqual “cal” to mean “kcal”, and having to convert the different quantities of often 100 gram to kg… ok so multiply everything i said by 1000.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

no, with the food stamp argument. so far i’ve figured “0.33” is a quantity, “ramen noodles” is an asian take-away dish, and i figure “fresh cheeses and meat” are the more expensive elements of a balanced diet. but i have no idea what that surmounts to, if it’s not what i had previously assumed based on the context of the discussion.

Sorry, thought it was pretty clear. $0.33 is approximately what you will pay for one meal of Ramen Noodles. Which is why it’s so popular among starving college students.

Meats, cheeses, fresh fruit, and those sorts of things tend to be a little more expensive.

 
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lol. not clear at all. but uhm…anyway, it seems when it comes to food the differences between Europe and USA are just too vast to have a meaningful discussion. i mean i think i might have seen those noodle soups before, in fact i think i saw some ads, but i don’t think they ever got really popular here. i think i even remember eating it and feeling all greased up like my metabolism and sweating going all up from the grease overdose, but in no way did my hunger go down.

 
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They’re little packages of soup, man. Like instant noodles in a cup, you just pour the seasoning on, break it apart, put it in water (or just boil water and pour it on the noodles) and microwave them for 5 minutes.

They’re no bueno for someone who’s going to try to use them as an energy source.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

lol. not clear at all.

Alright, well if that’s the case I’m done here trying to explain it to you. Do whatever you want, Doom.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

lol. not clear at all.

Alright, well if that’s the case I’m done here trying to explain it to you. Do whatever you want, Doom.

Ninj, I gave up on him a ways back on THIS thread. His obsessive-compulsive position on the whole “weight problem” in//for ppl has a taint of trollism to it. It’s pretty obvious that he is much smarter than he is behaving here.

SOOoooooo….what gives w/ his steadfastly stubborn refusal to accept the vast amount of empirical evidence,,,,all because he himself doesn’t have any problem w/ weight gain and (I’m making a vaudevillian comical guess here) doesn’t personally know of anyone who does and if he does…has failed to share ANY knowledge on their “plight” and their difficulties surrounding it?

I mean…it’s one thing to play “Satan’s henchman” and challenge us to make “our case” on this issue. But, it is quite another to do a jake-o and make circular arguements via having his head buried in the sand to use as an axle and pretty much just “giving-the-finger” to us as the goes by each of our salient presentations on the subject.

I envy the man on his weight problem of not being able to gain.
I don’t, however, envy or even understand most of his constant use of junk food as the source he promotes as viable elements of his (and in general) preferred method of putting on the pounds.

Yes, as is vastly obvious to us Americans…crap junk-food most certainly will put on pounds.
BUT, they are the wrong kind of caloric intake.
They are called empty calories and can lead to very serious health issue if these calories are a huge bulk of the food they eat.

Even if one is “eating healthy”, it is typically recommended that one takes supplemental vitamins & minerals. Older men should be taking saw palmento for their prostrate health. Ppl who want to avoid the bane of “flu season” take variations of vitamin C.

This thread hasn’t yet has introduced the vast area of herbal foods and vitamin//mineral supplements as health aids. Health food stores

“A health food store is a type of grocery store that primarily sells health foods, organic foods, local produce, and often nutritional supplements. Health food stores typically offer a wider or more specialized selection of foods than conventional grocery stores for their customers, for example athletes and bodybuilders, people with special dietary needs, such as people who are allergic to the gluten in wheat or some other substance, or have diabetes mellitus, and for people who observe vegetarian, vegan, raw food, organic, or other alternative diets.”

“Nutritional supplements
Most health food stores also sell nutritional supplements, like vitamins, herbal supplements and homeopathic remedies. Herbal supplements have never been regulated until the European Directive on Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products came into force on 30 April 2004. The Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive, 2004/24/EC, was established to provide a regulatory approval process for herbal medicines in the European Union (EU).”

Eating healthy is damn difficult in our modern society. Our processed foods are of low beneficial content. One would need to have a huge intake of calories to reach the necessary RDA’s of vitamins, fiber, minerals, etc.

Omega, have YOU ever read the nutritional data label on the package of any processed food?
IMPORTANT >>>>: BE A LABLE READER.
Know a lot about nutrition. vika has been making a human body//automobile comparison….talk to any auto mechanic about the horrors of catastrophic auto malfunctions due to lack of simple, decent maintenance…usually due to a high ignorance of what that entails.

Okay, then. Like ninj…I’m done here. I’ve had my say on the issues surrounding this thread. If anyone really wants an “education” on body health,,,there’s a wealth of information at their finger tips via the Internet. Huge amounts of it have been presented here.

I do want to make a parting thought, though.
Overweight (fat) ppl—for the most part—aren’t that way out of choice,,,even though they DO CHOOSE to shovel in their face the horrid foods they eat & the amounts of them that they do. However, the CAUSES OF//REASONS FOR this usually are things they have little control over.

All one need do to understand this is to just talk w/ them and their weight issues. Show some fucking compassion for them and this cross they are bearing. Stop being an arrogant prick because a simple “but-for-the-grace-of-God,-there-go-I” is all one really has as their “hole card” in the battle-of-the-bulge. And yes, a strong will power is (IMHO) a blessing from above…at least by comparison to the many that are lacking in it. NO ONE willingly, purposefully chooses to be “weak” in their efforts to be successful in life.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

lol. not clear at all.

Alright, well if that’s the case I’m done here trying to explain it to you. Do whatever you want, Doom.

i’m sorry, i meant “was”. was not clear. “0.33 ramen noodles” didn’t ring any bells with me. it was a response to you saying “thought it was pretty clear”, see?

Ninj, I gave up on him a ways back on THIS thread. His obsessive-compulsive position on the whole “weight problem” in//for ppl has a taint of trollism to it. It’s pretty obvious that he is much smarter than he is behaving here.
SOOoooooo….what gives w/ his steadfastly stubborn refusal to accept the vast amount of empirical evidence,,,,all because he himself doesn’t have any problem w/ weight gain and (I’m making a vaudevillian comical guess here) doesn’t personally know of anyone who does and if he does…has failed to share ANY knowledge on their “plight” and their difficulties surrounding it?

no Karma, it is exactly the OPPOSITE. YOU are being stupid here, and YOU seem to not know anyone that DOES have a problem with gaining weight, from the other side. YOU failed to show ANY knowledge of their “plight” and their difficulties surrounding it. get my point yet?

you just made my point very clear anyway. all you can think of is people that are overweight and struggling to lose some. all of society seems to be that way.

í on the other hand, have already told you i am quite ignorant on the issue of weight loss, because i’ve never had to. but that does not mean i have to be thrown to death with LOSE MORE WEIGHT slogans; get all the food that is actually HEALTHY for me get classed as unhealthy just because fatasses shouldn’t eat it; have to get extra gym classes in school for the purpose of mandatory weightloss camp, when NOT FREAKING EVERYONE IS OVERWEIGHT god fucking damnit, so stop pretending as if they are.

people still NEED to eat high calory foods to meet their calorie demands. just because a lot of people eat FAR TOO MUCH of such foods, doesn’t mean you don’t still NEED to eat a certain amount of high calorie foods. but never is anyone taught how to do so responsibly; all we are is thrown to death with calory scare-tactics.

and i’m sorry if you don’t like being told the truth, but it is simply FACT that most people that are overweight have themselves to blame for it, and for most they just aught to stop eating so much fucking junk, and all these excuses are fucking weak, or indicative of cultural problems that also aught to be adressed.

now tell me i’m trolling again, when i’m just telling the fucking truth.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

people still NEED to eat high calory foods to meet their calorie demands.

Untrue. You only ‘need’ as much as you are going to use. Unless you are doing a lot of heavy manual labor, you don’t need any high-calorie foods. Your body will tell you if you are not getting enough, with symptoms of lethargy. Then you eat a little to cure them.

now tell me i’m trolling again, when i’m just telling the fucking truth.

Well it would be nice if you were telling the truth, but you’re not. You’re trying to simplify into absurdity, what is actually a very complex set of issues. Many have told you in this thread, examples of real problems faced, but because they are not what you wish to hear, you just dismiss them out of hand.

 
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NO, YOU ARE DISMISSIGN WHAT I AM SAYING OUT OF HAND

what the fuck is the matter with you? all of you? you keep fucking pretending like everyone is overweight. NOT EVERYONE IS OVERWEIGHT. not everyone eats too much calories. plenty of people out there ARE NOT MEETING THEIR CALORY NEEDS.

I am not denying you, YOU ARE DENYING US!

 
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You don’t have to be overweight to have an unhealthy body, you know. Proper dietry management and good exercise will help tone your body, regardless of whether you are overweight, underweight or correct weight. It’ll deal with problems unrelated to weight, but related to body maintenance.

 
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exactly! but part of proper dietry management should be proper ways to meet your calory demands for those that aren’t meeting it. and they CANNOT be reached with vegetables, lean meat, dayly fruit and frugal beakfast alone. keep insisting it can and i’ll just laugh at you, because really, it CANNOT, not for some people aar.

 
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You say it cannot, then you go on to say it ‘cannot for some people’. Make up your mind.

We address disabilities on an individual basis. Been telling you that for months. Don’t tell me it is actually beginning to sink in?

 
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oh god. not the “you’re outside of the norm so fuck you” argument again… oh god it is.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

oh god. not the “you’re outside of the norm so fuck you” argument again… oh god it is.

Then quit using it, maybe? You’re certainly the only one doing so.

 
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This thread hasn’t yet has introduced the vast area of herbal foods and vitamin//mineral supplements as health aids. Health food stores

Karma, I take it you don’t do the shopping or the cooking in your household. Many of the people who are unnecessarily fat are at the bottom of society’s heap. They have neither the time nor the money to think about whether to supplement the kids’ cornflakes with pumpkin seeds or flax seeds this week. They know nothing of fish oil or dried cranberries, and wouldn’t know an antioxidant if it bit them on the arse. They’re too busy wondering whether to have burgers or Kentucky fried with their chips, because the kids are sick of stew, which is the only decent meal they have ever learnt to cook.

They need educating. They need to be taught how to deal with the cheapest cuts of meat and how to make vegetables interesting. They need to learn some basic stuff about nutrition so they can begin to make informed choices about what they eat.

I agree on being a label reader. Or better still in many cases, if it’s got a label don’t buy it. Chances are that you could cook the same thing better and cheaper yourself, if only you knew how to. Half a dozen companies have made a profit out of that tin of irish stew on the supermarket shelf. You need the money more than they do, so learn how to make it yourself. It’ll be fresher and tastier, and you’ll get more food on your plate for the same amount of money. And labels don’t always tell the whole truth. I don’t know whether you are familiar with this clip, but it’s a bit of an eye-opener on what the food industry can get away with.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

oh god. not the “you’re outside of the norm so fuck you” argument again… oh god it is.

Then quit using it, maybe? You’re certainly the only one doing so.

what? … ok you pulled that out of your ass. please show me how i was doing that?

i suspect you would say that i was saying overweight issues are largely due to habit, and that that means i am overlooking those handful of people that have a proper diet and are still obese. but again, then explain this to me. ethno-genetics? climate? no. it’s cultural habits. you can help your habits, and you can adress cultural problems. hiding behind it is weak.