Liberal Race Baiting page 4

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Originally posted by issendorf:

If only the Republican Party had approved of an African American Secretary of State before to make this argument even more absurd than it already is on face value. Oh wait…

He just had his race changed and we all know it, so don’t even try to deny.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

We’re not some glorious hive-mind.

by your command.

I miss that series. The remake had nothing on the glorious cheese of the original.

@MyTie. I already answered. He’s going by trends the republican party has shown in the past.

 
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Really? I loved the remake. I see much more of your transhumanism in the remake than in any other vision of the future.

 
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The remake was much more of a soap opera, than the first was. I kept forgetting it was on, and missing episodes. Eventually I gave up as I no-longer had a clue what was going on, anymore.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:@MyTie. I already answered. He’s going by trends the republican party has shown in the past.

So you feel the Republican party is racist, and he is just responding to those trends? And you base that on the opposition to affirmative action, and gerrymandering? I’m understanding you correctly?

 
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I gave a link to the most recent sagas, with the 2012 election. I base it mostly on a long history of opposing equality.

I think what’s happened is that if you have a history of always being a certain way, people tend to associate you with certain thought patterns, and start extrapolating based on that – they expect you to think the same way moving forwards, as you have in the past.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:I gave a link to the most recent sagas, with the 2012 election. I base it mostly on a long history of opposing equality.

No, you didn’t link a long history of opposing equality. You linked a history of opposing affirmative action, and gerrymandering activities. Opposing affirmative action isn’t racist, and both sides gerrymander, but again, gerrymandering isn’t racist.

I’d be more than happy to look at evidence of a systematic racist agenda by the conservative side, if you can present it. I’m going to put this in caps, and repeat it a bunch, to get your attention, because I’ve said it like 5 times now and you don’t seem to catch it:

GERRYMANDERING AND OPPOSING AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ARE NOT RACIST.
GERRYMANDERING AND OPPOSING AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ARE NOT RACIST.
GERRYMANDERING AND OPPOSING AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ARE NOT RACIST.
GERRYMANDERING AND OPPOSING AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ARE NOT RACIST.
GERRYMANDERING AND OPPOSING AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ARE NOT RACIST.
GERRYMANDERING AND OPPOSING AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ARE NOT RACIST.

Either explain how these are racist, or find different evidence. As scoopolard said, the article you linked is itself, race baiting. It puts forward things that Republicans are doing, and calls them racist, without them actually being racist. You can’t link race baiting as valid reason to race bait.

 
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Ah fuck it.

There’s no point.

I could point out that instances of blatant race-baiting by guys like Biden (who, though a bit of a loose canon, has done a lot to help his country) are despicable, yes;
But are no more or less despicable than the blatant power grabs from the other side of the aisle, the gerrymandering and voter suppression;
How all of it is, like it or not, par for the course in American politics;

And MyTie would still cry about it, and play the victim…

So fuck it.
MyTie, you’re the reason the GOP is a falling-apart piece of shit these days.
You latch on to whatever echo chamber talking point bullshit the Right’s mouthpieces put out there, whilst ignoring the real issues that are at play.
You’re a waste of a vote.
Think for yourself, fer chrissakes.

 
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Also, I’d like to point out one more time that the incident at the heart of this discussion, Susan Rice’s persecution at the hands of the Right, and the Left’s claims of racism in response, is still a very valid and very real example of hypocrisy.

The Right never went after Condee with both barrels, despite the fact that she FUCKING LIED to them, having access to the intelligence, having access to the inner workings of the then-Administration.

Susan Rice, on the other hand, is a fucking spokesperson. She’s a non-integrated diplomat, and she reported on the information she was given.
But OH GOD NO SHE’S NOT FIT FOR THE JOB COVER UP HOLY SHIT1!

This isn’t racism; it’s fucking partisanship witch hunt bullshit from the Right.
Fuck off.

 
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soft’s first post – please list these power grabs, and explain how that equalizes the blatent race baiting. And try to go easy on insulting me. I’m a tender guy. Geez.

soft’s second post – Both sides go after the other side’s guys, sure, and there is hypocrisy involved, but none of it adds up to racism, which is what this thread is about. No one cried racism when the left went after Herman Cain… or any other minority Republican.

 
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I could point out that instances of blatant race-baiting by guys like Biden (who, though a bit of a loose canon, has done a lot to help his country) are despicable, yes;
But are no more or less despicable than the blatant power grabs from the other side of the aisle,

Racial politics =/= partisan politics.

the gerrymandering and voter suppression

Actually Democrats prefer racial gerrymandering as it gives them a seat as opposed to cracking the minority vote into two or more districts to dilute their Democratic votingness.

The Right never went after Condee with both barrels, despite the fact that she FUCKING LIED to them, having access to the intelligence, having access to the inner workings of the then-Administration.

You’re pissed that Rice is being targeted now and unpissed that Condi wasn’t targeted back then. Pot, meet kettle.

I’ll also note that Wexler went after Condi and not one bloody liberal talking head called him a racist.

Finally, your apples to apples comparison doesn’t exactly work as she was already appointed and was Secretary of State, not being considered for the position.

This isn’t racism; it’s fucking partisanship

No shit.

 
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no one after six months of SD is ‘tender’, mytie. get with the program.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

no one after six months of SD is ‘tender’, mytie. get with the program.

Twas sarcasm.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

no one after six months of SD is ‘tender’, mytie. get with the program.

Twas sarcasm.

Twas cynical.

 
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I find it interesting that none of the left leaning posters in this thread have any problem with taking it for granted that some liberals indeed make false racist claims.
On the other hand the many of the posters that are leaning right deny that their Party and leaning(conservative) does include racists and that racism is more prevalent on the right than it is on the left.

http://rt.com/usa/news/conservative-ideologies-science-group-477/

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-16/news/ct-oped-1016-page-20111016_1_herman-cain-black-voters-godfather-s-pizza-ceo

http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/interracial-marriage.jpg?w=600

the last link above is part of this:
http://filipspagnoli.wordpress.com/stats-on-human-rights/statistics-on-xenophobia-immigration-and-asylum/statistics-on-racism/

 
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http://rt.com/usa/news/conservative-ideologies-science-group-477/

Citing Russia Today (always a great start) to a ‘study’ that doesn’t include any of the hard data.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-16/news/ct-oped-1016-page-20111016_1_herman-cain-black-voters-godfather-s-pizza-ceo

The gist of the argument is that this writer thinks its more plausible that Herman Cain hates blacks than it is that all Tea Party members aren’t actually racist. It never ceases to amaze me how people like this remain employed as ‘journalists.’

http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/interracial-marriage.jpg?w=600

Old, angry people (probably men) in the South aren’t exactly the standard bearers of the Republican Party. Judging a group based on the fringe makes any large-scale organization look like a collection of kooks.

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
On the other hand the many of the posters that are leaning right deny that their Party and leaning(conservative) does include racists and that racism is more prevalent on the right than it is on the left.

Quote please.

I fully recognize that there are racist conservative people. There are racist liberal people. There are racists in every political movement I’ve ever heard of. That is totally correct. The difference is, the actual racists in the large portions of the major political movements in the US are a scant minority, but the people screaming “YOU RACISTS!” are mainstream, big players. These people use “If you disagree with X, you do so because of RACISM” to silence people that disagree with them. People use it to leverage elections, and influence people through media. To an extent, I think it is working. Once we establish this, “you are against black people” thing, we’ll examine the “you are against women” thing, and then “you are against the poor”, etc. The mud slinging is epic, but the majority of it is coming from left to right. This supposed “war on women”. The “racism”. I’m sick of being told that the things I value, the morals I have, are inherently racist, hateful, bigoted, chauvinistic, and greedy. That’s all ad hominem. I’m sick of it.

 
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Redem, you, obviously a staunch liberal, are an example of what I mentioned before. You accuse conservatives of being sexist, racist, etc. Then, you proceed to call Ann Coulter an extremely derogatory and sexist term just because you disagree with her points of view on issues.

I do not merely disagree with her on issues, I find her positions outright offensive and her rhetoric dangerous. She’s a right wing attack dog, nothing more.

This is what bothers people so much and gives liberals a bad name. Fighting to end hatred is a noble cause, but many times this doesn’t appear to be the real motivation behind the actions of people.

Fabricated offense, clearly. You don’t appear to even blink at the vilest insults propagated by pundits like Coulter. She slanders entire peoples with comments like “If only we could get Muslims to boycott all airlines, we could dispense with airport security altogether.”, whereas I merely express my disgust with her specifically.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/interracial-marriage.jpg?w=600

Old, angry people (probably men) in the South aren’t exactly the standard bearers of the Republican Party. Judging a group based on the fringe makes any large-scale organization look like a collection of kooks.

Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
On the other hand the many of the posters that are leaning right deny that their Party and leaning(conservative) does include racists and that racism is more prevalent on the right than it is on the left.

Quote please.

I fully recognize that there are racist conservative people. There are racist liberal people. There are racists in every political movement I’ve ever heard of. That is totally correct. The difference is, the actual racists in the large portions of the major political movements in the US are a scant minority, but the people screaming “YOU RACISTS!” are mainstream, big players.

And this where i disagree. According to the link above about 22-23% of those that are conservative/republican disapprove interracial marriage between whites and blacks. That is in no way a insignificant portion. And since this is just one indicator of Racism, the number is likely to be even higher.
Now that still does not mean the majority of the party is Racist but when it covers about Quarter of the members its not just a fringe group either.

On the other hand MyTie. You claim that those making false(otherwise whats there to complain) accusations about people being racist are the mainstream majority of liberals. I would ask based on which studies you do so. To me it seems like the same over generalization that those that claim republicans/conservatives in general or majority are racist.
Now even i would agree that some prominent Politicians use the Race Card(as its called) wrongly and unjustly. Similar to what you describe next. But is it really the majority?

These people use “If you disagree with X, you do so because of RACISM” to silence people that disagree with them. People use it to leverage elections, and influence people through media. To an extent, I think it is working. Once we establish this, “you are against black people” thing, we’ll examine the “you are against women” thing, and then “you are against the poor”, etc. The mud slinging is epic, but the majority of it is coming from left to right.

Seriously. Do the words “that´s communism/socialism” ring any bells. To me it seems Jan was right about your willful blindness.

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

 
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I wouldn’t say that the majority of liberals are race baiting. I have no measure of that. I would say that mainstream liberals are race baiting. Case in point: Joe Biden.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

I wouldn’t say that the majority of liberals are race baiting. I have no measure of that. I would say that mainstream liberals are race baiting. Case in point: Joe Biden.

What did he say? I might have missed something but i hope your not referring to the “put back into chains” comment. While i personally found that remark from Biden irritating. I fail to see the concrete race baiting. You do understand that its a metaphor used in line with the remark of “unchaining Wallstreet” and that its not actually accusing anyone of racism?

 
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It’s a stretch… but still questionable. This isn’t like the time, when speaking about business, Obama pointed out that business didn’t get where they did without help from government, what with all the teachers, the infastructure provided, like roads and bridges, and that business is built by government, and that you didn’t build it…. .but then it was twisted around on the left to mean that Obama said that business owners don’t build roads and bridges… which makes no sense why he would bother saying that at all.

Who am I kidding. Obama lost me the moment he defended his daughter getting an abortion by saying that he wouldn’t want her punished with a baby.

Seriously, this is your champion.

Anyway… Biden… still don’t think it’s not race baiting.

But, let’s take it from big O himself.

_Departing from his prepared remarks, he [Obama] mentioned the Stafford Act, which requires communities receiving federal disaster relief to contribute 10 percent as much as the federal government does.

Senator Obama, as he was then, pointed out that this requirement was waived in the case of New York and Florida because the people there were considered to be “part of the American family.” But the people in New Orleans — predominantly black — “they don’t care about as much,” according to Barack Obama._

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

I wouldn’t say that the majority of liberals are race baiting.

Good, I’m very happy that ya have now backed off your initial presentation of this being the case. At least YOU are able to respond to serious opposition to YOUR hyperbole. I wonder if ya’re yet able to understand that there are “bell-curve” degrees of shades of gray involved here?

I have no measure of that.

Exactly….
NOW, keep that in mind when making a whoooole lot of your other assumptions.
Remember: SOME isn’t the same as ALL. That one should keep this in mind w/ someone makes a GENERAL staement. If one should need further detail-of-quantity/quality…they need to ask for it rather than do an Olympic-worthy-leap to a speculative conclusion.

I would say that mainstream liberals are race baiting.

Of course ya would.
This is what BIAS is.
But then, this is also subject (as in SUBJECTIVE rather than OBJECTIVE) to “grayness”.
What was it that T-Ninja said? Those “w/ a problem” aren’t able to see it in that light (< a paraphrase of what she said).

Case in point: Joe Biden.

Poor Joe has his foot in his mouth so much of the time that one can easily see some (most?) of what he says as being most anything. He leaves so much “wiggle-room” for such speculation which can be twisted by those who so earnistly desire to do their own brand of “liberal baiting”. If what jake-o does on this forum isn’t just that….then I’m “conservative” baiting. Well, YES…I do. Just a very light shade of gray which many tend to agree w/….due to some very obvious glaring sunshine being cast upon them.
 
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And this where i disagree. According to the link above about 22-23% of those that are conservative/republican disapprove interracial marriage between whites and blacks. That is in no way a insignificant portion. And since this is just one indicator of Racism, the number is likely to be even higher.

It’s 17 points different from liberals. In 20 years, when the generation that lived through and remains bitter about civil rights, the spread will likely be no greater than 10, if that.

Now that still does not mean the majority of the party is Racist but when it covers about Quarter of the members its not just a fringe group either.

I still hold that’s simply the regionalness of the South and their history and not an indication of how a Republican actually feels. I’d imagine if the sample left out the South, the percentages would be right there with the Moderate level.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
And this where i disagree. According to the link above about 22-23% of those that are conservative/republican disapprove interracial marriage between whites and blacks. That is in no way a insignificant portion. And since this is just one indicator of Racism, the number is likely to be even higher.

It’s 17 points different from liberals. In 20 years, when the generation that lived through and remains bitter about civil rights, the spread will likely be no greater than 10, if that.

While I thought most of us were talking in “real time”, this look into the future is most reasonable. I would simply believe it COULD take two or even 3 generations for this to abate to a discernable level.

The South still has issues w/ its Confederate Dixie flag as being strongly associate w/ racism. It even took Southern state goverments a looooong time after the war to “fade away” from it. "South Carolina being the last one.

Now that still does not mean the majority of the party is Racist but when it covers about Quarter of the members its not just a fringe group either.

I still hold that’s simply the regionalness of the South and their history and not an indication of how a Republican actually feels. I’d imagine if the sample left out the South, the percentages would be right there with the Moderate level.