What should NATO's standard-issue pistol cartridge really be? page 4

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Originally posted by softest_voice:

God, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

…says the guy that thinks a rifle chambered for 5.56 can’t fire .223

Dude.

It’s all good, just look at the one or two posts in which I messed up on small details (I also went back on both of those details and corrected them later on) rather than look at other key points of my arguments.

 
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Originally posted by rwbstripes:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by rwbstripes:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by rwbstripes:

God, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Okay, this brings us to my original point, give them flint locks.

The powder wouldn’t even be effective enough at damaging a vehicle, muss less killing soldiers from any distance.

Back in my day, an experienced shooter could acheive a head shot from 800 yards.
With a musket.

Considering the innacuracy of a musket, it’s ammunition, as well as its sights, I doubt that was possible. You probably can’t even seen a human head at 800 yards / meters and the military doesn’t even train infantry to shoot beyond 300m though most engagements lie between 100-200.

Then your military sucks.
Have had not for those drones and bombers, they would have gotten their ass kicked

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

God, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

…says the guy that thinks a rifle chambered for 5.56 can’t fire .223

Dude.

Come on softest, we got that figured out last night. It is all straight now. Being from Texas, do you hunt?

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by rwbstripes:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by rwbstripes:

God, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Okay, this brings us to my original point, give them flint locks.

The powder wouldn’t even be effective enough at damaging a vehicle, muss less killing soldiers from any distance.

Back in my day, an experienced shooter could acheive a head shot from 800 yards.
With a musket.

LOL, back in your day? That was good punisher. The Tokarev is used in civilian circles in the US because it is really reasonable in price. the ammunition can be a chore to find at times and you usually have to order it on the internet. People I have spoke with who have one enjoy shooting it, but keep in mind it is an obsolete pistol for the most part. They are coming into the US as surplus arms.

 
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Some thing you should see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WXjxPCLFXU

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:

Some thing you should see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WXjxPCLFXU

That is an interesting link punisher. Have have seen several of those videos of homemade firearms. for not really having the tools, but big on imagination, they really come up with some interesting projects. I have also see people in countries or youngsters who can’’t own a firearm and they build cardboard and wooden guns. I watched one video where the young man was making lookalikes (somewhat) to some of the firearms that intrigued him. He was so excited about his creations and as I watched it I felt sorry for him, wanting so bad to be able to own a firearm. guns and men seem to go together like salt and pepper.

You mentioned black powder for military use and in today’s wars, that would be a bit under gunned. I like blackpowder and have a couple of handgun replicas of the Colt and Remington. They are much more accurate than some would believe, but the power and distance just isn’t there for modern warfare. Reloading presents a problem too. There was a time when they were the best available and America used them to gain our independence.

Some of the finest homemade firearms I have come across are on this site.

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=96fb31c67d3f08d1bb7b38485ab770b7;act=SF;f=30

These are people who have the tools and experience in their use to make some beautiful specimens. I have posted some of the pictures before on another thread. There are a couple of machinists who should be in the manufacturing business, they are so good.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:

Some thing you should see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WXjxPCLFXU

That is an interesting link punisher. Have have seen several of those videos of homemade firearms. for not really having the tools, but big on imagination, they really come up with some interesting projects. I have also see people in countries or youngsters who can’’t own a firearm and they build cardboard and wooden guns. I watched one video where the young man was making lookalikes (somewhat) to some of the firearms that intrigued him. He was so excited about his creations and as I watched it I felt sorry for him, wanting so bad to be able to own a firearm. guns and men seem to go together like salt and pepper.

You mentioned black powder for military use and in today’s wars, that would be a bit under gunned. I like blackpowder and have a couple of handgun replicas of the Colt and Remington. They are much more accurate than some would believe, but the power and distance just isn’t there for modern warfare. Reloading presents a problem too. There was a time when they were the best available and America used them to gain our independence.

Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:

Some thing you should see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WXjxPCLFXU

That is an interesting link punisher. Have have seen several of those videos of homemade firearms. for not really having the tools, but big on imagination, they really come up with some interesting projects. I have also see people in countries or youngsters who can’’t own a firearm and they build cardboard and wooden guns. I watched one video where the young man was making lookalikes (somewhat) to some of the firearms that intrigued him. He was so excited about his creations and as I watched it I felt sorry for him, wanting so bad to be able to own a firearm. guns and men seem to go together like salt and pepper.

You mentioned black powder for military use and in today’s wars, that would be a bit under gunned. I like blackpowder and have a couple of handgun replicas of the Colt and Remington. They are much more accurate than some would believe, but the power and distance just isn’t there for modern warfare. Reloading presents a problem too. There was a time when they were the best available and America used them to gain our independence.

Some of the finest homemade firearms I have come across are on this site.

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=96fb31c67d3f08d1bb7b38485ab770b7;act=SF;f=30

These are people who have the tools and experience in their use to make some beautiful specimens. I have posted some of the pictures before on another thread. There are a couple of machinists who should be in the manufacturing business, they are so good.

So, its a no to gun powder?
How about ray guns?
you don’t have to deal with bullet drop or windage with them.
So why not them?
Damn, the site is blocked for “security reasons”

 
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Not gun powder, black powder. they are two different hombres. Modern gun powder can come in single, double or triple base. and can produce pressures unheard of in black powder guns. Black powder is a slower burning powder and produces a lot of smoke. I like the smell of it when I have fired a charge. Smokeless powder is made from different chemicals than black powder and burns much faster. Manufacturers can control the burning rates by adding a coating on the outside or by using different shapes. It can be flakes, cylindrical, or sphere. Modern smokeless powders are continually improving.

BTW, you can make black powder at home if you are careful. What site was blocked and by whom?

 
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OK ok… :D

I missed some of the conversation there guys, my bad!

Haven’t really done any hunting jhco, strictly a recreational shooter, though I plan to get out and shoot feral hogs with a buddy of mine and his family sometime.
We were supposed to go a while back but plans fell through.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

OK ok… :D

I missed some of the conversation there guys, my bad!

Haven’t really done any hunting jhco, strictly a recreational shooter, though I plan to get out and shoot feral hogs with a buddy of mine and his family sometime.
We were supposed to go a while back but plans fell through.

Do you know what you will be using? I suggest a 45-70 to be honest, it’s an old government round, I know many people who say it is a practical use for hunting pigs. Here in Upstate NY, you can hunt them 24/7 any way you want, so by all means I could go out and spear some hogs. I don’t hunt dangerous game both because of the dangers obviously associated with hunting them, as well as I moreso prefer meat of deer, waterfowl, and most other birds. Hoghead on my wall would be neat to see, I guess. But don’t eat the meat of them, it’s in no way good for you.

 
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Mini-14 Ranch rifle.

.223 or 5.56 (can handle both with no issues :D), smaller round but I plan on shooting SP or JHP so I don’t anticipate a lot of issues.

As for the dangers, my buddy’s family has been hog hunting for generations apparently, so I figure if I keep my eyes open and listen to advice, I should be all right.
One of his cousins hunts them with two hounds and a knife.
THAT I won’t be trying!

Still running iron sights on it at the moment, but I’ve been looking at a couple of 1-4×24/30 optics for it.
Nice both eyes open shooting at low power, but you can get a bit more accurate at medium ranges with the 4x magnification.

…this is so off topic. :D

 
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Though the Mini14 is a pretty cool gun, I hear lots of reliability and accuracy issues arise when using it. But I’m sure you own the rifle as you would be hunting with it, so you could probably account for its accuracy and handling characteristics.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Not gun powder, black powder. they are two different hombres. Modern gun powder can come in single, double or triple base. and can produce pressures unheard of in black powder guns. Black powder is a slower burning powder and produces a lot of smoke. I like the smell of it when I have fired a charge. Smokeless powder is made from different chemicals than black powder and burns much faster. Manufacturers can control the burning rates by adding a coating on the outside or by using different shapes. It can be flakes, cylindrical, or sphere. Modern smokeless powders are continually improving.

BTW, you can make black powder at home if you are careful. What site was blocked and by whom?

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=96fb31c67d3f08d1bb7b38485ab770b7;act=SF;f=30
this site by govrnment
As for gun powder, I heard that in darra adam khel they use nitrocellulose films as gunpowder
I read somwhere that blackpoder canbe made with sulphur, charcoal and saltpeter(?)
in certain proportions

 
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I read somwhere that blackpoder canbe made with sulphur, charcoal and saltpeter(?)
in certain proportions

Yup. Highschool chemistry. Charcoal and sulfur form the basic explosive, but they require vast quantities of oxygen at their disposal to go boom. Hence the purpose of the third element.

As a nice aside, if you mix them in equal proportions you get one heck of a good firelighter. No boom, but it’ll happily burn even under water. Great for rain-soaked bonfires.

 
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Actually, according to HENLEY’S TWENTIETH CENTURY FORMULAS PROCESSES AND TRADE SECRETS, 75% Potassium Nitrate (Salt Peter)/15% Charcoal/10% Sulfur is just one of the formulas. BTW, it is not waterproof. I won’t give the process for making it and I suggest you don’t try to make it without the process.

If you are not familiar with this book, it tells you how to make anything from perfume and dyes to Nitro Glycerin, which I will not publish the process for.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Mini-14 Ranch rifle.

.223 or 5.56 (can handle both with no issues :D), smaller round but I plan on shooting SP or JHP so I don’t anticipate a lot of issues.

As for the dangers, my buddy’s family has been hog hunting for generations apparently, so I figure if I keep my eyes open and listen to advice, I should be all right.
One of his cousins hunts them with two hounds and a knife.
THAT I won’t be trying!

Still running iron sights on it at the moment, but I’ve been looking at a couple of 1-4×24/30 optics for it.
Nice both eyes open shooting at low power, but you can get a bit more accurate at medium ranges with the 4x magnification.

…this is so off topic. :D

I wouldn’t feel unarmed with the Ranch Rifle. My brother was friends with a wealthy fella who had a 9000 “Ranch” on the border. They used it for hunting and Javelina was their main game. They used mostly .30-30’s to hunt them but other calibers were also used. I personally never hunted them, but enjoyed the meat. My brother brought me a Hickory smoked ham one time that was to die for.

So you don’t want to try the Larry Harley method with a knife? I wouldn’t either. I prefer open sights myself. I have used them all of my life and I’m comfortable with them. However these old eyes are starting to weaken a bit and I may have to go with a peep sight if I do anymore hunting.

When I was in East Texas we had both the Javelina and feral hogs. I got caught in a field while dove hunting one time. They scared the crap out of me since I had a single shot 12 gauge only. I stood motionless for a long time while they moved away.

Yeah we are off topic but It is fun. I like it.

 
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If you are going to make nitro punisher, keep it frozen. Transport it frozen, and let it thaw out where you plan to use it. It is much more stable that way. Far lower risk of blowing yourself up by accident.

 
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I think this is the thread I promised to do a bit of research about the buffalo and how the buffalo hunters got the blame for killing them all off. This article tends to dismiss what we have been taught all our lives.

http://www.petersenshunting.com/2012/09/04/was-the-buffalo-nearly-hunted-to-near-extinction/#ixzz2DV1LfRAE

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

If you are going to make nitro punisher, keep it frozen. Transport it frozen, and let it thaw out where you plan to use it. It is much more stable that way. Far lower risk of blowing yourself up by accident.

Nah, i don’t intend to make it, not yet atleast.
But what I have once made is chlorine gas(I think)
I combined some bleach (containing HCl)
and a drain opener (some kind of carbonate)
and I nearly chocked on the green gas that was produced as a result.
That was a bad experience, my eyes were burning, my lungs were burning whenever I took a breath, my skin was feeling itchy.

 
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Next time, perhaps it would be better to wear protective clothing, and vent the gas into containers rather than generally into the room? You could quite easily modify an old extraction fan for a cheap capture method if you are working on a shoestring budget.

 
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Why would you even attempt that, Punisher?

 
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Originally posted by rwbstripes:

Why would you even attempt that, Punisher?

Just a thought came in my mind
“what happenns if I combine bleach with drain opener?”
went in bathroom, threw some solid drain opener in sink and threw half a bottle of bleach on it.

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by rwbstripes:

Why would you even attempt that, Punisher?

Just a thought came in my mind
“what happenns if I combine bleach with drain opener?”
went in bathroom, threw some solid drain opener in sink and threw half a bottle of bleach on it.

That’s one of the stupidest things that could cross your mind, Jesus Christ. I hope you don’t own any weapons – or potential weapons.

 
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Well, the idea wasn’t stupid per se, but the way you went about it, was really stupid. Using your own bathroom for an unknown chemical mixture, as opposed to a dedicated lab. Not using reasonable proportions – tipping half an entire bottle in was unnecessary, use just a beakerful.

Lastly, but by no means least, not using protective equipment – gloves, glasses, FACEMASK, was utterly utterly idiotic.


I hope you don’t own any weapons – or potential weapons.

As I understand it, Punisher is trying to find ways of making homemade chemical weapons, to try and use on US troops in his country. So far, he is only dangerous to himself and those misfortunate enough to be around him.

Even if he succeeded, what the hell did he plan to transport the gas in? How did he plan to get it inside the container to begin with?

 
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He’d be gunned down without mercy, I’m sure. Soldiers are equipped with both training of NBC environments, as well as filtration systems in vehicles and face masks.

Maybe we should notify authorities of such acts.