Are you a good person? (locked)

61 posts

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I judge judge would be able to justify the laws he wants us to obey and not just go: “Dude, you either do what I want without questioning it or you fry in hell.”

And you seem to have a bit of trouble at forming arguments. If you make a claim like this bullshit here:

Originally posted by 422537:

People are not ignorant of what is right and what is wrong because God’s Law is written on our hearts.

or this bullshit here:

Everyone will give an account to God, and you can’t enter into His Kingdom unless you are completely blameless and without sin.

or this bullshit here:

The only way to gain entry is to accept Jesus as Lord and accept what He has done.

you have to give valid evidence for it.
Little heads up: the bible is not valid evidence for stuff that is written in the bible.

If you find all this a bit too long, here’s the short version:
You suck at preaching.


EDIT: Holy crap! I just read the stuff you called the ten commandments. Just jumped over them the first time, since I assumed that you would know how to cite stuff.
You obviously also have trouble reading or you deliberately left out passages. I guess one could argue that this is a sin, putting words in God’s mouth and all…

9. Do not lie.

It’s actually
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
That’s quite a difference, because this allows for lies if you do it to protect others. Lying to harm others is forbidden.

10. Do not covet.

It’s
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
If you can’t figure out where the difference is here, I’d suggest taking a class on basic reading skills.

At least the core point of your post stays true:
You suck at preaching.

 
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1. I worshipped none, does that count?
2. Doesn’t modern society like it when kids get a good role model that they can idolize?
3. Great, now Hell’s going to be croweded and hot.
4. What’s a Sabbath and why should I poke holes in it?
5. Teen’s be damned. Dammit…
6. That’s just killing a person, right?
7. Can you commit adultery if you aren’t in a committed relationship?
8. Well crap.
9. I have never lied in my life. Totally.
10. I think I’m covetting right now.

Originally posted by 422537:

This is what Jesus did by dying on the cross for the sins of all men – past, present and future.

If all it took was for someone to be a martyr, then God’s really cheap.

People are not ignorant of what is right and what is wrong because God’s Law is written on our hearts.

God’s law says that I should get my heart checked on.

And also to become the tyrant ruler of France.

The only way to gain entry is to accept Jesus as Lord and accept what He has done.

Wait, doesn’t that mean that Jesus is technically an idol?

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
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1. Pass
2. Pass
3. Doh
4. Oops
5. Pass
6. Pass
7. Pass…ish
8. Damnit
9. Blast
10. But my neighbour has such a beautiful ass…

Think I’m pretty fucked.

Not even going to bother with the rest of the post because it’s either trolling or stemming from a belief system so very distant from my own that any time spent replying to it at length is time wasted.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:


The only way to gain entry is to accept Jesus as Lord and accept what He has done.

Wait, doesn’t that mean that Jesus is technically an idol?

No! No!
You got it all wrong. Jesus is God.

Who had himself killed to show us how much he cared for us.

And then had himself resurrected by himself to… Uh… I don’t know. Show us that he actually doesn’t care, I guess.
I mean, what kind of half-assed commitment is that? Die for our sins and three days later jump around again and fuck off to heaven again to wait until he can finally judge us all according to the rules that he set up and that he consciously designed in a way that we can only fail.

 
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When could I say I’m good enough person? The learning never stops.

And yes, I wouldn’t advice starting these kind of topics here, not with accepting this many axioms before the the actual productive discussion could start. The axioms should be discussed first, and if majority of people here disagrees with you, continuing from that with the same axioms won’t be productive for anyone.

 
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Originally posted by 422537:

Yes He designed his Law in a way that we can only fail. But as the apostle Paul said. The Law was given not to make us righteous with God, but to show us just how sinful we really are.

Then it’s a Catch 22. I mean, God made laws that specifically say that someone is sinful because they don’t follow the rules that were menat to make everyone sinful.

Personally, I find Catch-22s to be kind of dickish when done on purpose.

 
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“good” is a fallacy

 
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422537, minor question. Why would you wish to live forever after you die? How is an eternal existence possibly going to be a good thing? There are certain axioms you’d have to accept with an eternal existence. Sharply limited potential for growth being one of them.

 
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Mister with the incredibly random name, you are still using the bible as evidence for the bible…

Why should I take that stuff serious? It’s just a book.
And if I had to interpret that character that in the book shows up as God, Jesus and under a bunch of other names, the thing that first comes to my mind is egomaniac, closely followed by power hungry, deluded tyrant.
Actually, that’s not entirely true. Even though my local cleric told me time and again that that Jesus dude and that god dude are actually the same entity, I don’t really believe that. The text is not at all clear on that and some points even seem to contradict this apparently commonly accepted identification.

 
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Constant joy and happiness, is just overstimulation of the pleasure center. Eventually the rest of the mind atrophies away, as all you become is a simple pleasure circuit. I’m not interested in that fate.

I’m not living with those who created me. My father is dead, and my relationship with my mother has improved drastically with a large ocean between us. Mind you, they only created my body. I’m dead-set on chopping and changing that around, anyway, so they didn’t create very much.

 
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Originally posted by 422537:

I believe God can chop and change you to your hearts fulfillment.

Oh, I definitely agree that once you reach the level of a god, you have pretty much complete control over your environment. We just disagree on the method.

You’d rather sit back and use faith that a god will do what you want when the time comes.

I’d rather pour effort into placing such abilities within our own reach, and elevating our own status in the process.

Same end result (in theory), two very different methods. Mine guarantees it on Earth, though you take a chance that you’ll live long enough to see it. Yours gives you it regardless of how long you live, but you take a chance that it even exists.

 
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alright so:

1. Do not worship any other gods.
2. Do not make any idols.
3. Do not take the Lords Name in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath Holy.
5. Honor your parents.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

1. define “other gods”? depending on definition, each of the Trinity is another god. besides, according to Christian lore, there are no other gods. how could one worship what does not exist? this whole commandment makes no sense.
2. oh boy…define idols. does children count? i mean…whatever.
3. god damnit, every second word in any European language is a deritive of either God or Jesus, come on now. first thing you learn is cursing.
4. impossible and insane if taken literally
5. fuck my parents. why would any omniscient and benevolent god demand us to honor our parents even if they fucking suck? that’s just horrible, and he can stuff that commandment up whatever comes closest to an ass. what a horrible deity.
6. as for homicide, i guess i’m clear on that. but we could make an entire thread defining who is or isn’t a murderer…
7. if you read the Bible, this is the most stupid commandment of all. in the original definition, marriage usually involves a life-time of rape, but it’s adultery that counts as a sin, one that most prophets made themselves guilty of.
8. the definition of stealing depends on a definition of possession, which is entirely moot.
9. i rarely ever lie, but sometimes one has to, so this is stupid.
10. coveting is involentary.

who is this “god”, and why is he so stupid?

better hypothesis: imagine you would come accross an exact clone of yourself. now, how would you two get along, and how good of a person would you and your clone each esteem the other to be?

 
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Here’s a pretty good reason to believe that Jesus is not God.

Mark 15:34 (21st Century King James Version)
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is, being interpreted, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”

He doubts himself?!
You’ve got to be kidding me.



Also, you didn’t bring up anything that suggests that the bible is true. The fact that it has love as its core message – which I strongly disagree with; I think its core message is blind obedience – doesn’t add any validity to it.

The book undoubtedly contains some undeniable truth in places.

Cool.
Where?
And how does it make the whole text valid? In Harry Potter there is a train station that exists in real life. That still doesn’t mean that Hogwarts is a real place where wizards and witches are taught how to use magic.

And 1 man established a religion in 3 years, that spread throughout several parts of the world like wild fire, post-death.

Jesus didn’t establish anything. You seem to lack some serious knowledge on your own religion.

 
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Originally posted by 422537:

Hey tenco1,

The Law wasn’t given to make us sinful, it was given to show us our sin.

It’s still a catch 22, because by making those laws sin is created if used as a measurement for how good a person is, which you said was what God does.

The Law shows us how God sees us, disobedient and evil.

Enter into topic about how God isn’t actually omnipotent or benevolent, whit a then resulting argument over free will and how contradictory it inherently is.

 
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Scientifically speaking, free will doesn’t exist. Does that change any part of the argument?

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

Scientifically speaking, free will doesn’t exist. Does that change any part of the argument?

Kinda what I meant by contradictory, so not really.

 
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Originally posted by 422537:

You asked for reasons to take the Bible more seriously, not reasons to validate it’s truthfulness. Ask God, if you really want the answer.

That’s. Not. A. Reason.

It’s, again, a cop-out because there next to no chance that God directly would answer you.

Originally posted by 422537:

EPR89,

It’s bizarre to claim that Christianity existed before Jesus.

1. That’s not explicitly what he said.

2. Why don’t you use the quote button?

3. There have been several older religions that lead to Christianity.

 
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Originally posted by 422537:

Well EPR89 and vikaTae,

My job is not to change you, only God has such authority. But I will do what I have been told by Him and hope for the best. I have faith in your ability to change. Please don’t completely close your heart to the message and please consider reading the whole NT. You will probably find answers that I myself cannot yet answer.

Actually, as the creator of this thread, it is very much your job to offer a compelling argument for why we should change, and why our religions (I cannot remember what your belief system is, Tenco, sorry) are incorrect, or where they fall down. You have not attempted any real argument, and refuse to back up your claims when questioned.

That does not a good stance make.

 
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I think this thread needs an “AX: There is a Heaven, and you will be judged” Prefix.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
(I cannot remember what your belief system is, Tenco, sorry)

I believe in the ditheistic ruler-gods Celestia and Luna.

 
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But the ‘fall of man’ isn’t a part of every belief system.

 
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Originally posted by 422537:
2. Because I’m too lazy to figure it out, but if you can explain it simply enough, I may consider it.

You just press the quote button to make a quote of the whole post, and if you want to quote a specific part you can just delete the parts of the post you don’t want quoted.

 
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Originally posted by 422537:

tenco1,

The Law isn’t used as a measurement for how good a person is, it’s used to show us how disobedient we are. It can’t show us our goodness, only our sin. And the Law doesn’t create sin, sin already exists in us, because of the fall of man.

Not true.
Sin exists because of God. He created the concept of sin and he created us in a way that made us able to sin. And he created an environment that made sure that we would sin.
Your god is a huge prick.
I see no reason to worship him.
And as long as I don’t see any compelling evidence for his existence I therefore also don’t see any reason why I should waste my time believing in him at all.



Originally posted by 422537:

Ask God, if you really want the answer.

God is omniscient, right?