Gun Issues page 4

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Originally posted by JaumeBG:
The event horrified me. It’s an awful thing that should never happen. Still, when people use something like this to push political points it disgusts me a little.

The only reason I’m saying that guns should be regulated somewhat is because I want less people to die in America because of all these shootings you guys have. This is not about politics; this is about human lives. I don’t want any more teachers to die, I don’t want any more children to die, I don’t want any more human beings to die in events like these which are regular in America.

I’m sick and tired of seeing at least 3 news reports per month about another American shooting. It’s frustrating, and with all this gun regulation dated seemingly from 1776… well no, you will not have a safe society. Bob, this is not about politics, and don’t accuse me of making this political; I merely want less people to die. And less people will die if less people have access to being able to commit shootings like these.

Ok, let me ask you this. On this forum we have argued abortion. All of the left have given the human fetus absolutely zero value. Apparently, so have all of these women who are so willing to destroy life. Now add in some of the other wonders of modern life, like drugging our kids in schools, playing video games where you kill to get points with blood and guts everywhere. The internet where young people never meet the people they interact with. Kongregate is a good example of this. If we were face to face, would you people dare say some of the disrespectful things, or use language like is used on here?

I think the rash of shootings by young people are a combination of a lot of societal problems and the focus on guns is just an excuse not to face the real problems we are facing.

Now to your last comment. Why in the hell do you give a crap about what happens in America, or is this just another way to make foolhardy comments about our rights in this country. Are we not rolling over to your way of thinking?

 
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Or cause a massive chaos with bullets flying everywhere.
You can’t expect everyone to be highly competent with guns, especially kids in schools.

And I’m not suggesting the 7 year-old children to have guns. I don’t think it’s terribly unreasonable to mandate passing a gun safety class before you can buy a gun which would largely resolve this issue.

 
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Flag Post
Originally posted by EPR89:
Originally posted by issendorf:
1. What? why would you even want the school to not be a gun-free zone?
2. same thing, why would you want the theatre to not be a gun-free zone?
YOU DONT NEED GUNS FOR THOSE AREAS!

Because sane people aren’t going to open up fire on others there. Insane people who want to shoot up the theater will, regardless if its a gun-free zone or not. At least permitting guns allows the rest of the theater to protect themselves.

Or cause a massive chaos with bullets flying everywhere.
You can’t expect everyone to be highly competent with guns, especially kids in schools.



Originally posted by jhco50:

Have any of you noticed that these shooters are all either in their late teens or early twenties? This makes me wonder if this has a meaning we should be searching for.


Maybe you could think about that for a second and get the answer for that yourself.
Here a few pointers:
Puberty, a deciding timespan in people’s lives with rapidly changing environments (jobs, studying, moving around), experiences and emotions, stress, a feeling of loneliness and not finding an opportunity to take your time and just relax…


Honestly, I’d be surprised if it was not this age that was prone to such outbursts.

There are already bullets flying around!

You may have a point in your second part. This could be fixed if everyone wasn’t in such a hurry. I do think kids are too pressured to perform.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

We already exclude those people from them. Obviously you don’t know our laws.

Working great so far!</sarcasm>

By the way: “You are to young to understand,” or “You don’t know our laws,” are both not valid arguments.

 
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Are you serious, OP? These are the only public shootings you know of? The fact that over a dozen have happened this year in America alone entirely evades your knowledge?

Maybe you should list all of these shootings so the rest of us can see them JaumeBG.

 
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Yes, jhco, blame it on the youth. Attack me for being young. Yes, it is my fault! Thank you for pointing this out, jhco.

Why in the hell do you give a crap about what happens in America,

Something called empathy, something you lack for homosexuals. Look, 28 people have died. This is tragic and sad. Especially the way the gunman carried this out, in a kindergarten killing little kids.

Are you serious here? Are you saying you don’t feel bad about the families? Because I do. I don’t care if they’re in America or in China or in Tajikistan. It is tragic that so many people can die in a shooting, and especially so many children.

You know how I feel? Well, many of you are parents here. I have a little brother, and wouldn’t like for something like this to occur to his kindergarten. The same way most, if not all, parents here are empathetic.

I cannot believe you are essentially asking why I am empathetic of a massacre in America. Would you not feel even a little bit sad if 28 people were massacred in another country?


And that first paragraph, directed at youth. Wow. I mean, I hope you realise we’re not all the same. (Just to clarify for you, jhco, what I said before the quote in this post was sarcasm.) No, I do not have evil intentions. No, I will not kill anyone. Are you blaming this massacre on youth?

Videogames are not the entire problem of people not being sensitised by violence. Yes, they play a part, but they’re not everything. And again, not every youth does that (in this case, games). I literally have no console in my house, nor do I have any games for my computer. Your way of projecting and attacking youth for this is disgusting.

And I did not say anything disrespectful. All I said was that, “I’m sick and tired of seeing at least 3 news reports per month about another American shooting. It’s frustrating”. If you find this offensive or disrespectful, then that is strange.

In conclusion, yes, I care about things happening in other countries, and no, this problem is not the youth’s fault.

 
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We already exclude those people from them. Obviously you don’t know our laws.

Right, because Adam Lanza was not a nutjob.

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:
Originally posted by jhco50:

We already exclude those people from them. Obviously you don’t know our laws.

Working great so far!</sarcasm>

By the way: “You are to young to understand,” or “You don’t know our laws,” are both not valid arguments.

That wasn’t meant to be an argument, it was meant to have him watch and not try to make posts that don’t help the discussion.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by jhco50:

You may have a point in your second part. This could be fixed if everyone wasn’t in such a hurry. I do think kids are too pressured to perform.


Have you ever been to school?
At that age your own body messes with you. At the same time you are supposed to make decisions that will affect your life. Whether we want it or no, there is tons of pressure on them. Society puts it on them, peers put it on them, they put stress on themselves. That’s just how this phase of life works. You define yourself, find your own identity. It’s an inherently stressful time.
And with the whole competition aspect that is so exaggerated in modern societies it does not take much to cause more fragile individuals to snap. It might not always result in catastrophes like this one, but this time in someone’s life is definitely the most likely one.


Originally posted by jhco50:

That wasn’t meant to be an argument, it was meant to have him watch and not try to make posts that don’t help the discussion.

I don’t see how his post didn’t contribute too the discussion. Existing laws can be criticised in a thread like this. Laws also never ever mean that something is impossible, because most laws cannot be controlled 100%, as shown clearly here. All the existing laws could not prevent this.
Maybe it could not be prevented. (likely)
Maybe something could have done to make it less likely to happen. (also likely)
Maybe something could have done to reduce the damage caused. (also likely)

Threads like this should be an opportunity to talk about all these points.

 
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jhco, a person’s age does not determine their intelligence or the effectiveness of their argument. A person’s sexuality, a person’s gender, a person’s hair colour, a person’s race, a person’s religion, etc., do not determine it either. However, dismissing others’ opinions on the basis of such indeed determine either.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by jhco50:


Have any of you noticed that these shooters are all either in their late teens or early twenties? This makes me wonder if this has a meaning we should be searching for.

It’s a time of great angst? Should we send all of that age group to therapy? I’m not sure what goal or correlation we could draw with their ages. Mentally ill is mentally ill, man.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by jhco50:


Have any of you noticed that these shooters are all either in their late teens or early twenties? This makes me wonder if this has a meaning we should be searching for.

It’s a time of great angst? Should we send all of that age group to therapy? I’m not sure what goal or correlation we could draw with their ages. Mentally ill is mentally ill, man.

Didn’t you know, Twilight? A person’s age determines their craziness.
 
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Oh, look! A similar event occurred in China, but 0 died because of… gun regulation!

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
Or cause a massive chaos with bullets flying everywhere.
You can’t expect everyone to be highly competent with guns, especially kids in schools.

And I’m not suggesting the 7 year-old children to have guns. I don’t think it’s terribly unreasonable to mandate passing a gun safety class before you can buy a gun which would largely resolve this issue.

Good point.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by JaumeBG:

Yes, jhco, blame it on the youth. Attack me for being young. Yes, it is my fault! Thank you for pointing this out, jhco.

Why in the hell do you give a crap about what happens in America,

Something called empathy, something you lack for homosexuals. Look, 28 people have died. This is tragic and sad. Especially the way the gunman carried this out, in a kindergarten killing little kids.

Are you serious here? Are you saying you don’t feel bad about the families? Because I do. I don’t care if they’re in America or in China or in Tajikistan. It is tragic that so many people can die in a shooting, and especially so many children.

You know how I feel? Well, many of you are parents here. I have a little brother, and wouldn’t like for something like this to occur to his kindergarten. The same way most, if not all, parents here are empathetic.

I cannot believe you are essentially asking why I am empathetic of a massacre in America. Would you not feel even a little bit sad if 28 people were massacred in another country?


And that first paragraph, directed at youth. Wow. I mean, I hope you realise we’re not all the same. (Just to clarify for you, jhco, what I said before the quote in this post was sarcasm.) No, I do not have evil intentions. No, I will not kill anyone. Are you blaming this massacre on youth?

Videogames are not the entire problem of people not being sensitised by violence. Yes, they play a part, but they’re not everything. And again, not every youth does that (in this case, games). I literally have no console in my house, nor do I have any games for my computer. Your way of projecting and attacking youth for this is disgusting.

And I did not say anything disrespectful. All I said was that, “I’m sick and tired of seeing at least 3 news reports per month about another American shooting. It’s frustrating”. If you find this offensive or disrespectful, then that is strange.

In conclusion, yes, I care about things happening in other countries, and no, this problem is not the youth’s fault.

SilverEvil is your alt? Hmmm, good name.

Jaume, we don’t need empathy. Yes this is tragic and it ticks me off. Especially killing kids of that age. If I was there I would love to have taken him down…slowly. The guy was a coward, like so many nowadays. He was a worm with nothing but shit for brains and obviously his parents screwed up. People like him make me sick.

You can feel empathy and then make stupid assumptions that don’t help the situation all you want. We don’t need them, we have a problem we need to deal with and we don’t need outside interference while we do it. You and others on here want to blame the guns, but then overlook the deep rooted problem of what is causing this. Do you honestly think taking another freedom from us is going to fix the problem? How about the guy who set the propane tanks up in the mall for explosion? Are we going to ban propane? You have to look at things logically, not emotionally with little information.

No, video games are not the entire problem, and I never said they were. I said we need to look at the whole picture and find out what is wrong with our youth.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by EPR89:
Originally posted by jhco50:

You may have a point in your second part. This could be fixed if everyone wasn’t in such a hurry. I do think kids are too pressured to perform.


Have you ever been to school?
At that age your own body messes with you. At the same time you are supposed to make decisions that will affect your life. Whether we want it or no, there is tons of pressure on them. Society puts it on them, peers put it on them, they put stress on themselves. That’s just how this phase of life works. You define yourself, find your own identity. It’s an inherently stressful time.
And with the whole competition aspect that is so exaggerated in modern societies it does not take much to cause more fragile individuals to snap. It might not always result in catastrophes like this one, but this time in someone’s life is definitely the most likely one.


I agree, it is a stressful time and yes I went through the same trials and errors, but I didn’t go out and kill people. You haven’t either.

 
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He was a worm with nothing but shit for brains and obviously his parents screwed up.

Obviously his parents screwed up? Seriously?

You can feel empathy and then make stupid assumptions that don’t help the situation all you want.

I’m pretty sure blaming his mother, the elementary school teacher, is an equally stupid assumption.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
He was a worm with nothing but shit for brains and obviously his parents screwed up.

Obviously his parents screwed up? Seriously?

Sorry, it was the heat of the moment. :)

 
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This is a difficult and terrible matter.. How to stop this from happening? It’s difficult to answer..

First thing to say is that the bastard could do what he did cause he had a fireweapon, with a knife or similar weapon he would have been stopped or could have killed just 1 -2 person before being stopped. For me the question is how to prevent this type of people from getting access to guns? Don’t even mention explosive which can be made at home.

1 – You can make a law, and is a good start.. still through he can get a gun on the blackmarket or crime world.
2 – Some device that prevent the use of the gun in certain zones.. but still hackers, criminals can modify the chip, and also u had to replace all the older guns with the new ones.
3 – Even in a perfect world, this things unfortunatly will happen it s just a question to limit the damages. Terrible.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I agree, it is a stressful time and yes I went through the same trials and errors, but I didn’t go out and kill people. You haven’t either.

JESUS!
Do you even read posts?

It will always be not a minority, but a minuscule part of the population. It’s people with severe problems that go unnoticed. We need to find the sources of these problems and find a way to deal with them. And we need to make it difficult for these few people to find ways to ‘deal’ with these issues themselves in a way that could harm others.


Not going to address that whole “Today’s generation is all effed up, dhurr!”
Just one point:

find out what is wrong with our youth.
Absolute bullshit!

But isn’t it a valid point that, since guns are relatively easy to acquire in the US, they are easier to abuse too? If it was made more difficult to get a gun (gun safety course required, a clean criminal record and a psychological assessment of your mental health) without making them inaccessible the second amendment would essentially be untouched and people who are more likely to abuse them or are not qualified to handle them safely would have a much harder time getting one.

 
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SilverEvil is your alt? Hmmm, good name.

Oh look, the classic jhco joke! That’s an original one! Two people have similar opinions!? Oh they must be the same person, right!

Jaume, we don’t need empathy.

Most human beings do as an innate characteristic. This is not something you can control. Are you sure you know what the word means? (Serious question.)

Yes this is tragic and it ticks me off. Especially killing kids of that age.

You were empathetic right there! I thought you said we don’t need empathy…?

Look, I agree with you on that paragraph aside from the first sentence, which you disagree with too. I feel empathy for the families of those whom died, as do you. I don’t care about their nationality, or where they were killed.

but then overlook the deep rooted problem of what is causing this.

In my opinion, the problem here is how easy it is to get an assault weapon in the United States, and how you do not need to pass any psychological or such test to have one. Lanza, the killer, should not have been able to have one as a result of not passing a psychological test. I do not believe “nutjobs” should have access easily to weaponry.

You have to look at things logically, not emotionally with little information.

With little information? Do you seriously want me to give you reports about how in countries with regulated gun control there is less crime? Because I can do that easily. It is axiomatic that accessible gun control leads to crime, including massacres such as these.

I said we need to look at the whole picture and find out what is wrong with our youth.

You contradict yourself here. “We need to look at the whole picture”… “what is wrong with our youth”.

The problem is not the youth. And if you believe the entire problem is, then you are indeed misinformed.

So, you say, the problem is the youth? Because no massacres are committed by any other age demographic?

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:

Not going to address that whole “Today’s generation is all effed up, dhurr!”

But isn’t it a valid point that, since guns are relatively easy to acquire in the US, they are easier to abuse too? If it was made more difficult to get a gun (gun safety course required, a clean criminal record and a psychological assessment of your mental health) without making them inaccessible the second amendment would essentially be untouched and people who are more likely to abuse them or are not qualified to handle them safely would have a much harder time getting one.

These small incursions on firearms sound good to some, but let’s be honest…if the will is there, it will happen. The guns aren’t the problem, it is something going on much deeper. We can do like our politicians and kick the can on difficult decisions down the road and band-aide them with knee jerk reactions and by stepping on everyone’s rights, or we can start looking for the real problem.

 
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How would these measures step on anyone’s rights?
Explain that to me.
Right now!