Gun Issues page 51

2293 posts

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Over time, the issue with dangerously driven cars will fade into memory, and eventually every car on the road will be computer-driven.

I’m certainly not nearly as technologically savvy as you, but it seems like if someone, say the Chinese, hacks GM’s computers (or would it be entirely government run?), they could cause mass havoc and take control of a semi carrying nitric acid.

 
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They’re entirely within the car itself. So you’d need to physically be in contact with the car and hacking the computer. That would be exactly the same as hyjacking the load normally nowadays, and driving it in yourself. It would also show up in bahavior as suspicious, because I doubt a human driver can drive as well as a machine, and if all other vehicles on the road are machine-driven, it’ll stick out like a sore thumb.

Also since several routines are hardware driven for obvious reasons (you never wish to allow road safety routines to be overridable), your hyjacker will be unable to override those. Probably the only way to do so would be to physically disconnect the mind from the rest of the car, and try and coax the engine into responding to manual control.

It also means you’d have to input all data the car is normally sending to the road and other cars around it (position data, whether the car is hoping to turn left or right at the next intersection, road surface warnings etc) yourself, to avoid arousing suspicion.

 
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No, I think Karma was exactly right. I am not saying that one problem is more important that the other. I am saying that the issue of gun security and mitigating unintentional deaths with statistically effective measures is the key to gun safety. It’s an issue of risk mitigation, and the measures suggested by the current administration are mostly ineffective, and only serve to limit those of us who feel gun ownership is immutable.

 
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That’s right Karma, I have called your a far leftest, but you straightened me out when you admitted to being a socialist.

Vicka and Tenco, you both need to get your heads on straight. You even admit that you would like to rewrite the constitution to fit your own ideas, so don’t come back and tell me I’m wrong. I also find it hilarious to see you people all band together to protect each other from me. I can’t even type what I think about you right now. Turns my stomach.

Tenco, you claim I won’t listen to you and change my mind on gun control. Why should I? I have fought this fight before, against far better debaters than the people on here. Pro-gun fighters are experienced in this argument and we will win. Yes, we will take a couple of hits, but then we will strike back. You talk about not wanting to ban all guns, but I will tell you now, you are full of it. The memo slipped by the DOJ stated that was the agenda of the democrats and Obama in particular.

I looked at several firearms outlets in the last week, Walmart in particular and there were a total of 10 boxes of ammunition and only 4 of them were for a defensive handgun. Firearms manufacturers are backlogged. Your wonderful prez has created another disaster. Gun control laws at this point will be worthless as the guns in society have blossomed way above what your reasonable gun controls would stop. You could legislatively ban them at this point and never, ever rid the states of guns. Liberals, as I have already stated, never use common sense. They run on emotion and give little if any thought on the side effects of tjeir demands. You have put enough firearms into society to arm every man, woman, and child in the United States.

 
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Tenco, I didn’t realise you sent a memo to the DOJ. I never realised you had so much clout in the US govt….

 
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Well, jake-o, ol’ buddy….
as I’ve said before, ya should just number yer rants and post like this:
_I think I’ll toss #7 at ’em today and give ’em a side-order of good ’ol #4…calling them names is always good. Especially when hypocritically bitch when they do it to me.

Originally posted by jhco50:

That’s right Karma, I have called your a far leftest, but you straightened me out when you admitted to being a socialist.

jake, there is quite a difference between CONFIRMING and admitting.
But then, in YOUR mind…I’ve found that a lot of conventional (things “conservatives” are really big on) nomenclature gets horrendously “twisted” to suit their purposes….AT THE MOMENT.

>Vicka and Tenco, you both need to get your heads on straight.

As if they were on “crooked”?

You even admit that you would like to rewrite the constitution to fit your own ideas, so don’t come back and tell me I’m wrong.

Don’t YOUR listen to much of anything that ppl who disagree w/ ya?
Obviously NOT.
Dude, considering the amount of AMENDments to the Constitution…I would say that quite a few Americans have seen fit to “rewrite” our Constitution….eh?

Besides THAT shit, for someone who sooooo loudly touts being a “real” American…how difficult is it for YOU to be able to segue the saying: It is not only our RIGHT to challenge our government…it is also our DUTY,,,segue THAT into: “…liking to rewrite the Constitution to fit your (our) own ideas.”?

Ya see, when we vote on issues, ONES THAT ARE CONSTITUTIONAL, we are also “writing” an accord w/ the Constitution…..be it a yea or nay vote. YOU are confusing wanting//supporting laws that are made, which are Constitutional, with wanting to “rewrite” it. This is the kind of mistake often made by those who are unable to see through their descending colon and have only their own skewed biases to keep them company “up there”.

And yes, I (we?) can AND WILL "come back & tell ya that ya’re WRONGWRONGWRONG.
How arrogantly ignorant of YOU to tell us we can’t do so?
But then, this is the same Nazi-shit from ppl who like to say: If you don’t like it here…MOVE.

I also find it hilarious to see you people all band together to protect each other from me.

Have ya ever seen a cat play w/ a mouse?

I can’t even type what I think about you right now. Turns my stomach.

Ya do know that most things in life have “two sides”.
BUT, thanks for the “update” (ha ha ha ha ha ha) on how ya feel about us…..rather than the ideas we present on this forum. Ya see, THAT is just one of the things that YOU obviously aren’t able to “get”.

Tenco, you claim I won’t listen to you and change my mind on gun control.

Well, to start w/…that really wasn’t his “claim”.
Why don’t YOU reread what he said and NOT “filter” it though the twisted logic ya use when hearing things that don’t align w/ what YOU believe.

What he is saying is just that: YOU don’t listen in that…well, I will quote it: “This is why I don’t bother trying to read all of your posts anymore, you still manage to somehow live in this fixed point in time and never actually change your thoughts about someone when they defend their point and call you out on your regressive BS. Again. If I’m counting this correctly, this is at least the third time I’ve said how you don’t change, how you don’t try to even consider the possibility to learn from your mistakes (and yes, they are mistakes).”

Many of us on this forum have presented much data to YOU as rebuttals to YOUR positions on issues…..only to have YOU respond—OR NOT—as if YOU are the one who isn’t “listening. What ya do is, as vika so well articulates: _”Thank you for addressing Jhco’s posts. I would have missed any point he tried to make otherwise. Like you said, I’ve gotten in the habit of scrolling past his posts, because the arguments in them never change, no matter how often they are disproved. He always circles back round to the same arguments he started with. Won’t listen to others, won’t change his arguments. So what’s the point of listening to him at all?"_.

Are ya seeing a “theme” there?
Toss in Johnny B & Don, and ya’re really not doing all that well on many of YOUR stances…..just saying.

Why should I?

Because that is what a rational, OPEN-minded ADULT does as the grow & mature in their thinking….duh.

I have fought this fight before, against far better debaters than the people on here.

Yes…yes…yes, YOU “fight” against probably ANYONE who has an opposing viewpoint. This we already know….ad nauseum.
So, tell us….how did ya fare against those far better debaters than the ppl on here?
Was the outcome any better for ya?
Did they do a lot of snicking…..(cat-playing-w/-mouse)?

Pro-gun fighters are experienced in this argument and we will win.

I & BSG are “pro-gun fighters”, yet we certainly don’t “fight” the way YOU do. And, if ya’ll do a little listening….ya’ll see & MAYBE understand why ya shouldn’t lump ALL “pro-gunners” under YOUR “umbrella of bastion-de-antiquated-thinking”.

Yes, we will take a couple of hits, but then we will strike back.

Good grief, man.
Do YOU ever listen to yourself & see that ya’re talking in a manner consistent w/ a very aggressive person? THAT is why I say there are some ppl that scare the shit outta me when they own a whoooole lot of guns.

You talk about not wanting to ban all guns, but I will tell you now, you are full of it. The memo slipped by the DOJ stated that was the agenda of the democrats and Obama in particular.

Oh yeah, THAT really deeply addressed our point…..ha ha ha ha ha ha & haaaaaaaaaaafuckit. What else is new w/ YOU?

I looked at several firearms outlets in the last week, Walmart in particular and there were a total of 10 boxes of ammunition and only 4 of them were for a defensive handgun.

Yeah, YOUR Walmart is the litmus for for the entire country.
Nice try….at a typically ignorant logic on how to “prove” something.
Since I really don’t shop a Walmart, for a variety of reasons, I really don’t know what is happening in Wichita.
Maybe I’ll go have a look in a couple of them….including Sam’s.

Firearms manufacturers are backlogged.

So, this proves WHAT?
That ppl who don’t think things through have a tendency to OVERRACT?
Two weeks ago, upon hearing that a snow storm was approaching our area, there was hardly any food on the shelves of grocery stores.

Your wonderful prez has created another disaster.

Oh yeah, that nigger can’t get ANYTHING right….eh?

Gun control laws at this point will be worthless as the guns in society have blossomed way above what your reasonable gun controls would stop. You could legislatively ban them at this point and never, ever rid the states of guns.

Oh bullshit, do YOU not understand that these are LAWS ya’re talking about?
Do YOU not understand that is so greatly aligns w/ what the pathetically childish mantra of: When guns are outlawed…only outlaws will have guns?

Wouldn’t IGNORING gun control laws make those ppl CRIMINALS also?
This pathetic “state’s rights” shit YOU constantly vehemently tout just doesn’t hold water at this point of federal govt…..be it right or wrong.

Liberals, as I have already stated, never use common sense. They run on emotion and give little if any thought on the side effects of tjeir demands. You have put enough firearms into society to arm every man, woman, and child in the United States.

Oh shit….all I have in the way of a response to this “standard rant” of YOURS is: Thanks for the addition to those other “gems” I managed to pull from ya a few pages back. {insert HUUUUUGE lol here}.
 
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Well, jake-o, ol’ buddy….
as I’ve said before, ya should just number yer rants and post like this:
I think I’ll toss #7 at ’em today and give ’em a side-order of good ’ol #4…and calling them names is always good. Especially since I hypocritically bitch when they do it to me.

Originally posted by jhco50:

That’s right Karma, I have called your a far leftest, but you straightened me out when you admitted to being a socialist.

jake, there is quite a difference between CONFIRMING and admitting.
But then, in YOUR mind…I’ve found that a lot of conventional (things “conservatives” are really big on) nomenclature gets horrendously “twisted” to suit yer purposes….AT THE MOMENT.

Vicka and Tenco, you both need to get your heads on straight.

As if they were on “crooked”?

You even admit that you would like to rewrite the constitution to fit your own ideas, so don’t come back and tell me I’m wrong.

Don’t YOU listen to much of anything that ppl who disagree w/ ya say?
Obviously NOT.
Dude, considering the amount of AMENDments to the Constitution…I would say that quite a few Americans have seen fit to “rewrite” our Constitution….eh?

Besides THAT shit-point of yours, for someone who sooooo loudly touts being a “real” American…how difficult is it for YOU to be able to segue the saying: It is not only our RIGHT to challenge our government…it is also our DUTY,,,segue THAT into: “…liking to rewrite the Constitution to fit your (our) own ideas.” is hugely similar?

Ya see, when we vote on issues, ONES THAT ARE CONSTITUTIONAL, we are also “writing” an accord w/ the Constitution…..be it a yea or nay vote. YOU are confusing wanting//supporting laws that are made & should be made, which are Constitutional, with wanting to “rewrite” it. This is the kind of mistake often made by those who are unable to see the real world through their decending colon and have only their own skewed biases to keep them company “up there”.

And yes, I (we?) can AND WILL "come back & tell ya that ya’re WRONGWRONGWRONG.
How arogantly ignorant of YOU to tell us we can’t do so?
But then, this is the same Nazi-shit from ppl who like to say: If you don’t like it here…MOVE.

I also find it hilarious to see you people all band together to protect each other from me.

Have ya ever seen a cat play w/ a mouse?

I can’t even type what I think about you right now. Turns my stomach.

Ya do know that most things in life have “two sides”?
BUT, thanks for the “update” (ha ha ha ha ha ha) on how ya feel ABOUT US…..rather than the ideas we present on this forum. Ya see, THAT is just one of the things that YOU obviously aren’t able to “get”.

Tenco, you claim I won’t listen to you and change my mind on gun control.

Well, to start w/…that really wasn’t his “claim”.
Why don’t YOU reread what he said and NOT “filter” it though the twisted logic ya use when hearing things that don’t align w/ what YOU believe.

What he is saying is just that: YOU don’t listen in a manner that…well, I will quote it: “This is why I don’t bother trying to read all of your posts anymore, you still manage to somehow live in this fixed point in time and never actually change your thoughts about someone when they defend their point and call you out on your regressive BS. Again. If I’m counting this correctly, this is at least the third time I’ve said how you don’t change, how you don’t try to even consider the possibility to learn from your mistakes (and yes, they are mistakes).”

Many of us on this forum have presented much data to YOU as rebuttals to YOUR positions on issues…..only to have YOU respond—OR NOT—as if YOU are the one who isn’t “listening. What ya do is, as vika so well articulates: _”{tenco,} Thank you for addressing Jhco’s posts. I would have missed any point he tried to make otherwise. Like you said, I’ve gotten in the habit of scrolling past his posts, because the arguments in them never change, no matter how often they are disproven. He always circles back round to the same arguments he started with. Won’t listen to others, won’t change his arguments. So what’s the point of listening to him at all?"_.

Are ya seeing a “theme” there?
Toss in Johnny B & Don, and ya’re really not doing all that well on many of YOUR stances…..just saying.

Why should I?

Because that is what a rational, OPEN-minded ADULT does as the grow & mature in their thinking….duh.

I have fought this fight before, against far better debaters than the people on here.

Yes…yes…yes, YOU “fight” against probably ANYONE who has an opposing viewpoint. This we already know….ad nauseum.
So, tell us….how did ya fare against those far better debaters than the ppl on here?
Was the outcome any better for ya?
Did they do a lot of snicking…..(cat-playing-w/-mouse)?

Pro-gun fighters are experienced in this argument and we will win.

I & BSG are “pro-gun fighters”, yet we certainly don’t “fight” the way YOU do. And, if ya’ll do a little listening….ya’ll see & MAYBE understand why ya shouldn’t lump ALL “pro-gunners” under YOUR “umbrella of bastion-de-antiquated-thinking”.

Yes, we will take a couple of hits, but then we will strike back.

Good grief, man.
Do YOU ever listen to yourself & see that ya’re talking in a manner consitent w/ a very aggressive person? THAT is why I say there are some ppl that scare the shit outta me when they own a whoooole lot of guns…..and toss in some “revolution talk”. Itchy trigger finger…much?

You talk about not wanting to ban all guns, but I will tell you now, you are full of it. The memo slipped by the DOJ stated that was the agenda of the democrats and Obama in particular.

Oh yeah, THAT really deeply addressed our point…..ha ha ha ha ha ha & haaaaaaaaaaafuckit. What else is new w/ YOU?

I looked at several firearms outlets in the last week, Walmart in particular and there were a total of 10 boxes of ammunition and only 4 of them were for a defensive handgun.

Yeah, YOUR Walmart is the litmus for for the entire country.
Nice try….at a typcially ignorant logic on how to “prove” something.
Since I really don’t shop a Walmart, for a variety of reasons, I really don’t know what is happening in Wichita.
Maybe I’ll go have a look in a couple of them….including Sam’s.

Firearms manufacturers are backlogged.

So, this proves WHAT?
That ppl who don’t think things through have a tendency to OVERRACT?
Two weeks ago, upon hearing that a snow storm was approaching our area, there was hardly any food on the shelves of grocery stores. We had TWO storms in one week that put 29 inches (of wet snow…not as deep as power) and set an ALL-TIME (back to 1800’s when records were starting to be kept). Ya know what, ALL of that snow was gone in a week. The streets to those stores were passable within 2 days….per usual.

Your wonderful prez has created another disaster.

Oh yeah, that nigger can’t get ANYTHING right….eh?

Gun control laws at this point will be worthless as the guns in society have blossomed way above what your reasonable gun controls would stop. You could legislatively ban them at this point and never, ever rid the states of guns.

Oh bullshit, do YOU not understand that these are LAWS ya’re talking about?
Do YOU not understand that is so greatly aligned w/ what the pathetically childish mantra of: When guns are outlawed…only outlaws will have guns?

Wouldn’t IGNORING gun control laws make those ppl CRIMINALS also?
This pathetic “state’s rights” shit YOU constantly vehemently tout just doesn’t hold water at this point of federal govt…..be it right or wrong.

Liberals, as I have already stated, never use common sense. They run on emotion and give little if any thought on the side effects of tjeir demands. You have put enough firearms into society to arm every man, woman, and child in the United States.

Oh shit….all I have in the way of a response to this “standard rant” of YOURS is: Thanks for the addition to those other “gems” I managed to pull from ya a few pages back. {insert HUUUUUGE lol here}.
 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

Tenco, I didn’t realise you sent a memo to the DOJ. I never realised you had so much clout in the US govt….

Wait, I did?

Originally posted by jhco50:
The memo slipped by the DOJ stated that was the agenda of the democrats and Obama in particular.

Well fuck, I guess I did. I don’t even know what the DOJ is, let alone if I’m of legal age to write to it.

Department of Justice? Wouldn’t it be just “DJ,” then?


Anyway, I don’t have a link right now (I apologize for being hypocritical in advance), but I do know of a news story where a woman in Wal-Mart pulled a gun (It may have not been real, though) on a cashier over a $1 coupon not working.

EDIT: Okay, I found it.

And this is what I used to find it: “woman pulls gun in wallmart over coupons,” and it was the first link.

 
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Appologies for the nature of the source, but it was the only one that seemed to have a complete account of the incident.

Gun threat to cashiers for internet $1 coupon not working

Full sheriff’s report of the same incident

EDIT: And as I post those, Tenco goes and posts an edit. Typical :)

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
<

Anyway, I don’t have a link right now (I apologize for being hypocritical in advance), but I do know of a news story where a woman in Wal-Mart pulled a gun (It may have not been real, though) on a cashier over a $1 coupon not working.

Wouldn’t want any more hypocrisy here… http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Woman-Pulls-Gun-After-Walmart-Refuses-1-Coupon-195705471.html

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

EDIT: And as I post those, Tenco goes and posts an edit. Typical :)

Originally posted by donseptico:

Wouldn’t want any more hypocrisy here… http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Woman-Pulls-Gun-After-Walmart-Refuses-1-Coupon-195705471.html

Muhaha.

Also, this is tame for Florida, I expected her to strip when she pulled the gun. I wouldn’t want her to, but I would have expected it.

 
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I suppose that’s one way to overcome paying the mortgage / rent (I assume for all those counts of assault / battery / etc she’ll get some significant jail time?)

 
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Considering if you look at the sheriff’s report, that one of those counts was for assaulting the sheriff I would imagine so.

Reading between the lines, it seems the reason she pushed his hand back and punched him upside the head, was because he tazered her when she was trying to reach for her gun to shoot him. The police are known to frown on that sort of thing.

 
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Just a REAL “quickie” on the subject of this woman.

SADLY, even though there is 5 FELONY counts….
BUT, depending on her “rap-sheet”….
and, the capabilities of her court-appointed lawyer
and, due to a (probably for Fla.?) real overcrowding problem in jails//prisions…
she might do very little time at all…
maybe some “house-arrest”.

Of course, ya all know me….there is a lot more I want (need?) to say about how this incident “connects” to not only gun issues, BUT to societal issues in general.

Well, 17 hours later…I’m now able to add to my thoughts on the issue of the looniness of what this woman did.

I don’t care if what she did involved a gun.
There is a concept that goes like this: The (very extreme) exception proves (or disproves?) the rule….Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis. What it really boils down to is: “The exception gives Authority to the Rule.” The word prove isn’t the focus, it is the word exception that is important.

Put another way: “The exception [that] proves the rule” is a frequently misused English phrase. The original meaning of this phrase is that the presence of an exception applying to a specific case establishes (“proves”) that a general rule exists. For example, a sign that says “parking prohibited on Sundays” (the exception) “proves” that parking is allowed on the other six days of the week (the rule)."

I bring this up to show that this woman’s “misuse” of a gun proves that there is the rule that “proves” there is “sane usage” that is the “rule”. Her behavior is no indication that a “problem” exists w/ gun ownership//possession. It is an indication that there are nutty ppl out there that do some really fucking crazy shit….REGARDLESS of the circumstances involved.
This includes the use of a gun.

To further demonstrate my point on this, I offer this incident that happened right here in Wichita. NOW, are we to add even greater restrictions on driving a vehicle where a human is w/in a “striking zone” because of this exceptional incident involving he use of a auto? NO!

There are already plenty of laws on the books that address this issue. To further restrict normal behavior because of some very bizarre behavior (mass slaughters?) really boils down to some very extremist thinking.

This DOES NOT mean that the magnitude of these “exceptions” shouldn’t cause great concern….that will manifest a serious effort to find solutions to ALL OF THE PROBLEMS involved w/ “guns”.

HOWEVER, knee-jerk, ill-conceived measures, “feel good” (for the moment) efforts only serve to sweep the problem under the carpet. To illustrate this, I offer the physical abusive man (in a relationship w/ a woman) who beats her and then says: Honey, I won’t do it again. Typically, without some serious counseling, the root problem will NEVER BE SOLVED….and, the event will continue to happen.

Hopefully, this won’t be the case w/ gun SAFETY.
We do need to mitigate these horrific incidents—including “at home” killings of kids—as close to zero as is feasibly possible.

ANYONE who can’t get on board w/ this kind of thinking either isn’t capable of thinking,,,,
OR, just really doesn’t give a fuck about other ppl’s “problems”.

 
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Yeesh, you guys are STILL going in circles around this discussion.

This is basically what has been going on since this thread was created:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd2XHegWYlg

 
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Haha, Good Share! I agree, that basically sums up the whole debate about this issue.

 
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Originally posted by MidnightWerewolf:

Haha, Good Share! I agree, that basically sums up the whole debate about this issue.

BUT…only on the surface.
Little of importance ever moves forward without fierce objections (of varying nature & degree) by at least some opposition.

While much of the “debate” on gun control issues could be seen as represented by the video,,,
there is much in the way of sensible advancement being made. I guess one can always find (only?) that which they seek.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by MidnightWerewolf:

Haha, Good Share! I agree, that basically sums up the whole debate about this issue.

BUT…only on the surface.
Little of importance ever moves forward without fierce objections (of varying nature & degree) by at least some opposition.

While much of the “debate” on gun control issues could be seen as represented by the video,,,
there is much in the way of sensible advancement being made. I guess one can always find (only?) that which they seek.

Very wise, my master.

C’mon, it was a lighthearted joke with a lot of truth to it.

XD And “sensible advancement”? I’ll agree with you on the advancement, but it’s just an advance to punch the other guy’s face in, and anyone else who doesn’t agree.

 
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Apparently, it isn’t all that hard to make your own AR-15 with no 3D printing required.

 
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I believe I have already expressed that information John. When I presented information….and pictures, I was told, in so many words, I didn’t know what I was talking about. Oh well, I guess these people have closed their minds to facts.

 
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As if their minds were ever open to facts.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I believe I have already expressed that information John. When I presented information….and pictures, I was told, in so many words, I didn’t know what I was talking about.

How convenient that I don’t remember this.

Also, even though no-one has responded to him that doesn’t mean they do think he isn’t talking out of his ass, unless he specifically called you out on it.

Oh well, I guess these people have closed their minds to facts.
Originally posted by PatriotSaint:

As if their minds were ever open to facts.

Yes, all those facts that you both gave us… When?

 
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Let me remind you then, Tenco.

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=

I explained the fallacy that even with the laws/banning wanted by the liberal factions on this forum, the firearm would still be available. I even posted pictures of a few that impressed me for a few of you to insult as being weak and poorly made. Of course that was coming from people with very little knowledge of firearms or operation of said firearms.