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> You can simulate a little of it if you like Beau.
Already done that. I ruptured my achilles tendon several years ago, and used a mixture of walking stick and zimmer frame to get around. The frame was definitely more comfortable, but slower. When you actually need to lean on the stick, it quickly makes your arm ache like hell. Shopping was a real pain, and I generally used the frame for that as I could hang a basket from it.
I have no idea if the one armed bandit, as he was referred to out of earshot, is still alive. He was in his fifties circa 1970, so he would be well over 90 if he is still around.
My uncle had a condition whose name completely escapes me, which caused his hands to become deformed. The cure at that time was to amputate two fingers from one hand and one from the other. You probably know what I’m talking about. So I became used to shaking hands with a two fingered man from an early age. I have worked with people with various disabilities including amputations, I have even, horror of horrors, touched stumps. So I don’t share Jan’s distaste for those who don’t conform to the normal shape. But the more I think about this, the more I agree with him that conformity is one of the keys to this.
I had a look at Steve Mann’s blog page, and lifted this remark from it: “The more people that adopt this technology to improve the quality of their lives, the more that McDonald’s will become accustomed to it”. So even he is now acknowledging that unfamiliar technology may cause problems, and getting used to it will help the problems go away.
> *Originally posted by **[TheBSG](/forums/9/topics/316106?page=3#posts-6685461):***
> I’ll make sure to review every one of my decisions to see what kind of threats and personal danger I’m inviting into my life. Should I get this new haircut… as long as it doesn’t look like I have robot antennas I should be fine. Stupid. People who go to nerd conventions dressed up probably have security.
every decision? yeah, if you’re that casual about drilling into your skull to attach technology to it, then you really deserve it…
* * *
look, i’m a guy with a ponytail. i get comments from strangers on the street, telling me to get a haircut, or that all guys with long hair are pancakes (literally what some guy said…that was quite amusing), and retailers distrust me because of that. do i care? no. am i gonna go out and demand respect for guys with ponytails? fuck no.
many of the friends i’ve had over the years have been beat up regularly because they lived close to trailer-parks and trailer-parkers always beat up guys with long hair that are alone. but what are you gonna do about it?
face reality and be responsible for your own choices. you wanna talk about maturity? lets talk about that.
Again, having to face adversity is absolutely expected, and something I regularly preach to disabled people who feel entitled to not be noticed for their disability in public. Getting the shit kicked out of you is in no way shape or form a sensible expectation, especially by an employee at mcdonalds who believes he’s enforcing their policies. As already mentioned, if he were just wearing sunglasses and someone took them off of his head, am I the only person that would throw a fit? You don’t get to touch me just because you don’t like the cut of my jib. I didn’t realize this wasn’t a well engrained part of everyone’s social expectations: Maybe you guys are right. In that case, we should rig my wheelchair with a couple thousand volts and that should be totally legal for me to employ since I have a reasonable expectation of being attacked for not looking like everyone else. Flog people who’d pull a tranny’s wig off. Castrate men who think low cut shirts are invitations. Maybe we can break society of its base instincts and teach them what I thought was common decency. I still refuse to blame people who hurt no one for getting hurt by others. That will never make sense to me.
> *Originally posted by **[OmegaDoom](/forums/9/topics/316106?page=4#posts-6685684):***
> look, i’m a guy with a ponytail. i get comments from strangers on the street, telling me to get a haircut, or that all guys with long hair are pancakes (literally what some guy said…that was quite amusing), and retailers distrust me because of that. do i care? no. am i gonna go out and demand respect for guys with ponytails? fuck no.
But you accept that if three guys jump you, beat you half to death, leave you with a perhaps permanent injury, and cut off your hair to punish you, it was entirely your own fault for being stupid enough to be outside the norm by having a ponytail, and you have nobody else to blame but yourself, yes?
This is in fact what you expect as normal everyday behavior, yes? You acknowledge you may be even killed for having a ponytail, by any member of society at any time, in any place – from a cashier at a supermarket, to a clerk at the bank, to a parent bringing their kids home from school, to a random patron in a restaurant you happen to be eating in.This is the daily expectation you have. That any one of them is going to jump you and beat the evelasting shit out of you, then cut your ponytail off, and rip your scalp off with it, so no hair can ever grow back.
This would be perfectly acceptable behavior by any one of them in any circumstances. Correct?
I don’t regard that as acceptable or normal, but I do know that there are people out there, idiots, psychos or just plain old fashioned trouble makers, who do see it as acceptable. They react to anything outside their vision of normality with aggression. I have read that many species of animals will kill their own young if they are born deformed, so perhaps there is something animalistic in us all which our humanity cannot always override. Maybe we should all learn from this insident, as Steve Mann himself seems to have done.
look, vika nad BSG, like i said a bunch of times, i’m not defending the actions of the perpetrators, in any way. they are culpable for their own actions. every response you make is simply “you would not hold them culpable?”, and every time i have to repeat “of course they are culpable”.
ok, let me turn this around on you then. you would not teach your children to not take candy from strangers? you would not teach them to not go into certain areas alone? you would not teach them to not leave their drink out of sight and then go back and drink it? etc, because you feel that only the perpetrator has any fault? come on now.
culpability for a crime, and avoiding becoming a victim are two different things, and just because i talk about the latter doesn’t mean i reject the former. but you seem to be rejecting the latter.
I’ll bet you didn’t look up slut shaming because you would quickly see that it isn’t about not warning people, or giving them the tools to ensure that they’re safer. I will absolutely teach my children not to wear low cut shirts in the ghetto, or if they’re disabled I will absolutely explain to them that people are going to make fun of them for being different and might even pick on them. I will not, however, blame my child if their trust in others, or their inability to care whether people like them or not gets their asses kicked. The whole point is how you present your argument, and you specifically said that the person who expected to be able to eat dinner with his family without getting harassed needs _mental therapy_ to correct his outrageous assumptions about being left the fuck alone. Victims of crime and the malice of others do not need to be told how they could have prevented their attack. The issue is about how you present your point, not what you guys are saying.
I even agree. I myself am incredibly cooperative and unconcerned with “fairness” when I enter someone’s establishment. I’m worried my wheelchair is going to scratch their doorways, not that they should have larger doorframes. I don’t think that people should feel indignant about their right to wear low cut shirts or prosthetic devices, but they certainly shouldn’t be made to feel like they have a responsibility in the attack against them. For one, that’s psychologically fucked up, and for two: The fault lies entirely with the attacker.
Provoking attack is a mistake that a person makes, it isn’t a willful action that automatically provokes an equal reaction. If someone is looking at their cell phone and they fall in a manhole, they probably should have been looking ahead and should probably look ahead in the future when there’s signs up. If no one puts up a sign though, the person who walked into a manhole has so little culpability that mentioning as much is just shaming. The mistake of looking at your cellphone is piecemeal to the mistake of not putting up signs. The mistake of not announcing his prosthetic device is piecemeal compared to the mistake of physically assaulting a person over their prosthetic device.
> The whole point is how you present your argument, and you specifically said that the person who expected to be able to eat dinner with his family without getting harassed needs mental therapy to correct his outrageous assumptions about being left the fuck alone
i didn’t say that. i said his surgeon should have send him to a psychiatrist for evaluation for his request to have an applience drilled into his skull.
i don’t get how you think of this as something casual. drilling an unremovable, external applience into your skull is a very sick thing to do, because you will get into trouble. this McDonalds thing is just the start.
that’s only slut-shaming if you think telling some young girl that they’ll get stared at if they walk around butt naked is slut-shaming.
> The whole point is how you present your argument, and you specifically said that the person who expected to be able to eat dinner with his family without getting harassed needs mental therapy to correct his outrageous assumptions about being left the fuck alone.
And how have you presented your counter-argument? By putting words in the mouths of your opponents, trying to make them feel guilty or bigoted, and in general, exaggerating their arguments to such an absurd degree so it sounds like they’re the same guys who’d beat up gimps for fun. You and vika both have **repeatedly** missed the details of the argument, instead favoring over-generalizations, like her last post, like your post before that: “normal everyday behavior”? “Castrate men who think low-cut shirts are invitations”? What you two both have in common is a tendency to comment on what your opponents are thinking, rather than what they’re saying. Your belief that OD’s a teenager – which therefore makes him an unreliable idiot -, that he hasn’t looked up your obscure terminology, vika’s presumptions about my family relationships. You’ve both behaved like arrogant assholes in a quest to prove how evil anyone who disagrees with you is. Hurrah for “serious discussion”!
So don’t you dare try to claim the moral high ground, bsg. If you’d read this thread as objectively as you claimed to, you’d have realized very quickly that neither of us are presenting the argument in the black and white terms that you view it as.
I have acknowledged your lack of empathy for their actions, I’m simply trying to find the significance of your claim. Every time I’ve asked you what your point is, you’ve expressed the responsibility and onus of the situation on the man who decided to commit the controversial act of looking differently. I recognize that you are acknowledging the reality of the situation and not condoning the inequalities presented. My concern is with the implication of your claiming that there is a bravery or expected amount of danger in being provocative. My point is that the misstep of not expecting retaliation is incomparable and unmentionable in light of the arrogance of those who cannot handle differences. My point is that, after an attack, the least important thing is whether it was innocently provoked or not. Someone choosing to look that way doesn’t negate their rights, or their culpability. No one is responsible for attacks except attackers. The victim is only guilty of having put themselves in more danger. The results of being in more danger are still not directly related to their mistake.
Skydivers take on a certain amount of risk by jumping out of a plane, getting hit by a lady who purposefully drove her plane at him doesn’t mean he’s at fault for getting hit because he shouldn’t have been skydiving. If a tightrope walker is taking the risk of walking on a tightrope that they could fall, and someone throws a pop can at them, they fell because someone else was a dick, not because they risked falling.
right, and no one is talking about taking the cyborg to court for offending the law against stupid choices. but i just think some hassling at McDonalds is not a big news-item. yeah, that’s bad, but there’s nothing more that can be said about it, and we all know it’s a reality of life.
but even some guy simply _wearing_ such an optical device at a McDonalds would be a big news item to me (well, not really _big_ news, just really weird) where i’d think “what the fuck is that guy doing?”. and some guy drilling regular glasses into his freaking skull would even get a bigger response from me, questioning his sanity. i mean seriously?
so figure how i feel about Mr. Mann’s perceptory augmentation. you may just as well discuss someone removing the skin on his abdomen and replacing it with transparant artificial skin, and going to a beach… (actually, that would be kinda cool)