What if Jesus was just a philosopher?

79 posts

Flag Post

He may have been smart enough to have made up a being of a higher plane of existence to judge us. Humans would feel underpowered and do what the preachings told them to do.

This is just a theory.

discuss

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by GentleGyroGinger:

He may have been smart enough to have made up a being of a higher plane of existence to judge us.

You don’t have to be smart to do this.

But yeah, that’s what I thought Jesus was. He probably was a great speaker too and managed to put the hopes of many people at that time in words. They felt suppressed by the Romans. They were yearning for a time of change, a messiah who signifies an end to this time of suppression.
Right time, right place Jesus.

 
Flag Post

To judge us? And then what? Then what? What? What does it matter? Explain what you are talking about.

 
Flag Post

Technically Jesus didn’t make a god up, he only said that he is the son of the already made up god of the Jewish. So, philosopher or not, he was a liar. Except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.

 
Flag Post

hmm. he was probably bipolar or something. some of them go further than to claim being the son of God and everyone’s saviour and blah, without lying.

Jesus just implied that God will punish you for not believing in him, while the Old Testament merely says God may torture you for even much more fickle reasons.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

hmm. he was probably bipolar or something. some of them go further than to claim being the son of God and everyone’s saviour and blah, without lying.

Jesus just implied that God will punish you for not believing in him, while the Old Testament merely says God may torture you for even much more fickle reasons.

Yea, it is pretty interesting though how less violent God gets as time passes.
I mean the first time he got really upset he flooded the world, the second I think is when he toasted Sodom (In other words just the city instead of the world.)
As it goes on “Gods’ Fury” gets more focused on specific targets. And that’s more just before or during Jesus’ lifetime. (and after)

 
Flag Post

What does “Just” a philosopher mean? What you’re actually saying is “What if Jesus wasn’t a divine entity?” He absolutely was a philosopher, and one of the most influential to have ever lived, regardless if he lived twice or not. In fact, I think more theists would do better by their beliefs if they started learning and discussing the philosophies more than the divinity.

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

hmm. he was probably bipolar or something. some of them go further than to claim being the son of God and everyone’s saviour and blah, without lying.

You sure are dolling out the prognoses lately?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

hmm. he was probably bipolar or something. some of them go further than to claim being the son of God and everyone’s saviour and blah, without lying.

Jesus just implied that God will punish you for not believing in him, while the Old Testament merely says God may torture you for even much more fickle reasons.

Historically speaking, it turns out that Paul, one of the 12 Disciples, was the one to have compiled the doctrine of eternal salvation and a wild menagerie of other dogma ascribed to Christianity. The apostles extended the teachings of Jesus, for better or for worse, by word of mouth and, eventually, through written text; quite a lot of material was extrapolated through inference and guesswork after the death of Christ. The Bible was never a single work from the beginning, although it is attributed to the mind of God and the Bible cannot be considered as a direct transcript for the interpretation of Jesus.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by TheBSG:

What does “Just” a philosopher mean? What you’re actually saying is “What if Jesus wasn’t a divine entity?” He absolutely was a philosopher, and one of the most influential to have ever lived, regardless if he lived twice or not. In fact, I think more theists would do better by their beliefs if they started learning and discussing the philosophies more than the divinity.

I disagree from a philosophical standpoint there is not nearly as much substance as many believe. Sure there is lots of quotable stuff attributed to Jesus in the bible that can make a basis for a philosophical discussion. But the quotes lack both depth and consistency (to other quotes).
Its like taking memorable quotes of hundreds of speeches by different Speakers/Authors throwing away their context and tagging them together for presentation as one piece of work.
Sure anyone can find a quote/passage they like and find philosophically inspiring but most of it just causes headaches, because there is just no depth.

 
Flag Post

Well, that’s a different statement. While I think Jesus’ philosophies have had a wide influence, I’d probably agree with you that they’re some of the least developed or novel. Considering they were acknowledged by even Jesus to be influenced by the east, that isn’t too controversial of a claim to make despite people’s offense at it.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by TheBSG:

What does “Just” a philosopher mean? What you’re actually saying is “What if Jesus wasn’t a divine entity?” He absolutely was a philosopher, and one of the most influential to have ever lived, regardless if he lived twice or not. In fact, I think more theists would do better by their beliefs if they started learning and discussing the philosophies more than the divinity.

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

hmm. he was probably bipolar or something. some of them go further than to claim being the son of God and everyone’s saviour and blah, without lying.

You sure are dolling out the prognoses lately?

i agree on seeing him as a philosopher rather than Prophet. but “bipolar or something” is not much of a prognosis, and mental illness seems extremely obvious. i mean we know he (at least claimed to have) had voices in his head as did many other Prophets, and very manic illusions. i didn’t say anything controversial.

 
Flag Post

That’s not mental illness. That’s hemp overuse, at best.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Dante_Dreiman:

Technically Jesus didn’t make a god up, he only said that he is the son of the already made up god of the Jewish. So, philosopher or not, he was a liar. Except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.

This is so illogical.

Let me sort it out for you. If He was the son of God, then he wasn’t a liar. If He wasn’t the son of God, then He was a liar. It doesn’t matter what people think about what He said. He either was, or He was not, the son of God.

Learn to logic.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by Dante_Dreiman:

Technically Jesus didn’t make a god up, he only said that he is the son of the already made up god of the Jewish. So, philosopher or not, he was a liar. Except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.

This is so illogical.

Let me sort it out for you. If He was the son of God, then he wasn’t a liar. If He wasn’t the son of God, then He was a liar. It doesn’t matter what people think about what He said. He either was, or He was not, the son of God.


Learn to logic.

Yeah, in case you missed my point i don’t accept Jesus as being the son of anything besides a common man. Maybe you need to learn to understand the meanings behind words?

 
Flag Post

I tell you what. It doesn’t matter what you believe. That’s not what makes a lie a lie. If I told you I was a man, I would be telling the truth. However, if I was actually a woman, I would be lying to you. It wouldn’t matter if you believed the lie, or not. So, if Jesus was the son of God, then He wasn’t lying when He said he was. If He was not the son of God, then He was lying when He said He was. It wasn’t just a lie for those that don’t believe it.

I can’t tell if you don’t understand the concept of lying, or if you are just trolling.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by Dante_Dreiman:

Technically Jesus didn’t make a god up, he only said that he is the son of the already made up god of the Jewish. So, philosopher or not, he was a liar. Except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.

This is so illogical.

Let me sort it out for you.

Nah….allow ME to sort it out for YOU.
If He was the son of God, then he wasn’t a liar.

That’s a HUGE IF there. We could cover pages & pages on this.
OOoopppps….been there & done did that.

If He wasn’t the son of God, then He was a liar.

Subjective.
Speculative.
Argumenative.
Some say we ALL are “sons & daughters” of God.
After all, isn’t He our Heavenly Father?

It doesn’t matter what people think about what He said.

LOL….I guess ya haven’t heard.
A whooooooooooooooole lot of Christians might disagree w/ ya on THAT.
Sure, some of them do get really hung up on the messenger rather than the message.
But, all in all, I find that most Christians know the message and endeavor to follow it.

He either was, or He was not, the son of God.

Now, there is some logic that probably really doesn’t need to be even brought up….LOL

Learn to logic.

 
Flag Post

I watched this documentary this morning, I found it pretty interesting.
The whole thing explored the Pagan roots of Christ, basically in the sense that Jesus never existed, but was taken from Pagan beliefs and thrown into the whole concoction. The whole thing was centered around and artifact that they don’t really know IF it isn’t fake or not, called the Orpheus Amulet.
They don’t actually have it but they have a lot of pictures in good detail of it, it depicts a crucified man with the inscription of Orpheus and Bacchus or “Orpheus of Bacchus”.
Now Orpheus was the Greek hero that went to Hades to save his wife. they say the story goes he went in a musician and came out a prophet.
After he returned he joined a temple of Dionysus/Bacchus and became a sort of priest there, unfortunately the whole idea of ritualistic orgies and drinking yourself silly didn’t seem to suite him so he went and made his own cult.
They believed humans had souls, the could go and have an eternal afterlife after death, they also had some ceremony of drinking wine just like Christians do. He then went a step further and claimed Apollo as the one and only true god, and according to the myth he was then given a horrific death by the female members of the worshipers of Dionysus.
Now I don’t really have alot of credit here so here’s a link of Orpheus’ death and this which I didn’t really read through but it tells a bit about the amulet, this was all myth and nobody knows if the amulet is even real, but it does connect with the story of Orpheus perfectly, I guess the fact that a crucified man is depicted and the Orphic cult shared so many similarities with Christian beliefs is very tantalizing for some.

 
Flag Post

… What? MyTie is quite right about belief in God having nothing to do with whether Jesus is lying or not. I don’t even understand what you guys are arguing about. If you don’t believe in God, then yeah, you think Jesus was inherently lying. But if God is real, it wouldn’t mean Jesus isn’t still lying? Your belief in God is only conjugate to your belief in Jesus’ divinity. They aren’t dependent, or mutually exclusive. Logicked….?

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by MyTie:

I tell you what. It doesn’t matter what you believe. That’s not what makes a lie a lie. If I told you I was a man, I would be telling the truth. However, if I was actually a woman, I would be lying to you. It wouldn’t matter if you believed the lie, or not. So, if Jesus was the son of God, then He wasn’t lying when He said he was. If He was not the son of God, then He was lying when He said He was. It wasn’t just a lie for those that don’t believe it.

I can’t tell if you don’t understand the concept of lying, or if you are just trolling.

I don’t know if you have been paying attention but a great number of people do the opposite of what i am doing, they actually take his words as fact and proclaim he was the Son of God, no questions about it. So, i am not the only one doing something “illogical” here. And seeing at how you choose to capitalize “he” when talking about him i am inclined to believe you belong to that category. Now, as far as Jesus goes we have only opinions. We can’t ask Jesus now, can we? So you are wrong, what i believe does matter. The truth won’t change according to my believes, how could it? But in the end of the day that truth is lost to us so all we have is seperate opinions.

Originally posted by TheBSG:

… What? MyTie is quite right about belief in God having nothing to do with whether Jesus is lying or not. I don’t even understand what you guys are arguing about. If you don’t believe in God, then yeah, you think Jesus was inherently lying. But if God is real, it wouldn’t mean Jesus isn’t still lying? Your belief in God is only conjugate to your belief in Jesus’ divinity. They aren’t dependent, or mutually exclusive. Logicked….?

MyTie isn’t arguing that though, lol.

 
Flag Post

Maybe it’s just the shitty way you worded your first post. Look at it:

So, philosopher or not, he was a liar. Except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.
Like I said, believe in what he said, or what anyone says, doesn’t affect whether the original statement is a lie or not.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by MyTie:

Maybe it’s just the shitty way you worded your first post. Look at it:

So, philosopher or not, he was a liar. Except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.

Like I said, believe in what he said, or what anyone says, doesn’t affect whether the original statement is a lie or not.

Its not that shitty. You either did not take a good look at the English used here or did not understand it.
If you take a good look, there are to factual statements. 1. Jesus was liar and 2. except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.
In this case 1. is prolaimed always true in an absolute sense. As in Jesus naturally lied even to the believers, because he was not the son of god and so. 2. Is true in the relative sense that some people don´t believe that Jesus is/was a liar, to them Jesus is/was not liar(even if objectively according to 1 he is/was).

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
Flag Post
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by MyTie:

Maybe it’s just the shitty way you worded your first post. Look at it:

So, philosopher or not, he was a liar. Except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.

Like I said, believe in what he said, or what anyone says, doesn’t affect whether the original statement is a lie or not.

Its not that shitty. You either did not take a good look at the English used here or did not understand it.
If you take a good look, there are to factual statements. 1. Jesus was liar and 2. except of course to those who believe in him being the son of god.
In this case 1. is prolaimed always true in an absolute sense. As in Jesus naturally lied even to the believers, because he was not the son of god and so. 2. Is true in the relative sense that some people don´t believe that Jesus is/was a liar, to them Jesus is/was not liar(even if objectively according to 1 he is/was).

To those who believe it, they don’t believe it to be a lie. To those who don’t believe it, they believe it to be a lie. Whether it actually is a lie or not, is not dependent on beliefs, but is objectively determined.

 
Flag Post

It could also have been a delusion.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by EPR89:

It could also have been a delusion.

I don’t believe that to be the case, however, that certainly could be postulated.

@Knife Grinder – Don’t know that mocking a religion is the best way to participate.