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No god exists but there is an afterlife. Multiple gods exist. Reincarnation happens or anything else suggested by any real or fictional or non existing religion or theory or hypothesis (religion and hypothesis are in this context almost the same and we don’t have any real theories yet ).
> *Originally posted by **[Roki123](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=5#posts-6858072):***
> What else are there?> *Originally posted by **[thijser](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=6#posts-6858089):***
> No god exists but there is an afterlife. Multiple gods exist. Reincarnation happens or anything else suggested by any real or fictional or non existing religion or theory or hypothesis (religion and hypothesis are in this context almost the same and we don’t have any real theories yet ).
We could get some really weird options too, since we don’t actually know what happens. Like we get reabsorbed into the lifestream when we die and become one with the planet. We could all become ghosts and wander around the world trying to find a new body, we could just be ghosts period and do diddly squat. We could die and go to an alternate universe that has magic n’ shite. Hell, we could just all be dimention hoppers and we don’t know yet becuase we’re just starting out on square one and we can’t tell the people who haven’t died yet.
Point is, we don’t know so we can’t say that there are only two options.
Hmm that’s a fine question, who knows. Maybe you’ll wake up after death and realize you were dreaming. Let me know after you die. In the mean time why worry about it when it only depresses you…just pretend your going to heaven.
Some of the posts are interesting on this. You are a young person and don’t really need to worry about this too much. I thing the reason religion is so important to many people is the unknown. We don’t know if there is a heaven or not, nor whether we have an afterlife or not. But people who believe in a religion have convinced themselves of an afterlife and this is important to them to contemplate a heaven. I think this is important for the human psychic. You will never really know until you actually die and to worry about it now just causes stress.
When I was younger I wondered about death, but as I grow older I accept it as natural and I am not afraid of it. You will marry in a few years and have a family. Your wife and children will be the most important thing in your life and you will stop worrying about your own existence. I don’t know why it is for sure, but you will be willing to give up your life to protect your family. Just an interesting thought. Stop stressing and enjoy your time while you have it. There is nothing you can do but follow the natural law of nature. If you are really worried, join a church and see if that doesn’t make you feel more at ease.
> *Originally posted by **[Roki123](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=5#posts-6858072):***
> > *Originally posted by **[NaturalReject](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=5#posts-6852190):***
> > > *Originally posted by **[Roki123](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=5#posts-6852181):***
> > >
> > > One of these will happen.
> > >
> > > 1. God exists: then you would go to heaven or hell.
> > > 2. God doesn’t exist: your brain just shuts down and you DIE.
> > >
> > > Now that leaves us with 1 question: Does god exist?
> > Those are not the only possibilities.
> What else are there?
hm…reinkarnation or….you become a ghost? nah idk really :D
> *Originally posted by **[Cdavid2950](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=6#posts-6868064):***
> If it makes you feel any better;
> It can’t be all that bad. I mean…Noone’s come back, right?
It depends on how you treat apparitions, spirits and presences really. If something of you survives physical death, it does so without the organic matter that used to house it, so if they come back, they’ll do so in an almost matter-free state.
Really, all I can advise, is what I’ve said before. If you are worried about it, join in on the research quest to understand our nervous systems. If anything does survive, this type of research will find proof. If nothing does survive, it offers us a hope of making a new afterlife for ourselves, where there was none before.
Whichever way it works out, just sitting and twiddling your thumbs is not going to provide you the answers you seek. Only by actively unravelling the possibilities, will we ever really _know_.
I think when you die, you die. Think of when you sleep, while your brain is still active and everything, you aren’t conscious of it (that is, unless you’re dreaming). I think death is similar, but with no brain activity. No one really knows though. When someone dies, and they are revived, they don’t remember anything. It’s like waking up and not remembering anything that you were dreaming about. All you remember is going to bed and waking up. Previously dead people remember dying, and waking up. So yeah, I basically think death is an endless sleep.
EDIT: Kinda like a coma? When you think about it, people in a coma are half dead.
I strongly disagree that we don’t know what happens. We don’t know what the experience is like, but we can safely rule out that the consciousness of an individual lives past the substrate that enables that consciousness. We don’t know what images an individual sees, but we can safely say that there isn’t communication from the brain to an outside feed in any measurable capacity. We do not know how time is experienced by a dying brain, but we do know that a dying brain has no mechanism for affecting things outside of itself, including time or the perception of subjective variables by healthy brains around it. The kinds of things people want to be true about death just aren’t by their nature. The kind of uncertainty people demand out of death is hoping more than anything. There is little to suggest that death is any more or less astounding than any other biological process. The only reason we want there to be more involved is that we don’t want to die. Period.
BSG…I’d like to phrase your last thought there to be: …\_we don’t want our “life” (as we know it) to END. We would like to be able to CONTINUE the existence we know. We want to be able to, simply put, see MORE of what life has to “offer”.
Just keep believing. It’s all we can do, I think it’s easier to believe in something and cling to it.
I’ve had many near death experiences at least 17 now and out of body experiences would have to be roughly 4.
I’m not exactly religious, I believe in small parts of every religion as I believe in equality, it stops me from disrespecting someone for what they are. Sometimes this question keeps me up all night but I eventually calm down. I like to try to live life a good way and to it’s fullest just in case there is nothing after death (which there is something).
I keep my faith going every day just because, ummmm………it’s all there is. You can’t do something unless you have faith you can do it, if you have no faith or no hope then you have already given up without knowing it. The point is the world will try to kick you down everyday and you will stay there if you let it, just believe and keep going, life is a hard road and I doubt there isn’t a reward at the end.
> *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=1#posts-6740490):***
> “Death […] is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not” — Epicurus.
> There’s no need to worry about death. Do you remember what life was like for you 100 years ago? No. Why? Because you were not sentient, you were not alive. How you were and felt 100 years ago will be how you will be and feel once you’re dead.
You are right. 100 years ago, you were in heaven, you were just a soul waiting for a body. When you die (if you’re good), you will be in Heaven and you will be just a soul living in peace.
> *Originally posted by **[MyTie](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=1#posts-6742697):***
> If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, accepted Him as your Lord and Savior, were baptized for the remission of sins, and then spent the rest of your life endeavoring to spread love, peace, and life to humanity using the Word of God, then you go to Heaven. If you didn’t do that, you’ll be cast aside like chaff to the fire.ya if you accept him you probley wont be worried about death im not and i accepted him. if i where you i would by a bible and read it. i agree with Mytie
> *Originally posted by **[betterplayer](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=6#posts-7364333):***
> > *Originally posted by **[JaumeBG](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=1#posts-6740490):***
> > “Death […] is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not” — Epicurus.
> > There’s no need to worry about death. Do you remember what life was like for you 100 years ago? No. Why? Because you were not sentient, you were not alive. How you were and felt 100 years ago will be how you will be and feel once you’re dead.
> You are right. 100 years ago, you were in heaven, you were just a soul waiting for a body. When you die (if you’re good), you will be in Heaven and you will be just a soul living in peace.
For the most common definitions of Soul your explanation is technically and logically impossible. Even if Souls do exist, they are and can not have the same Personality as You or Me. A important part of being Us is having a Personality influenced heavily by the bio-chemical and electrical state and interactions of our body most espicially the flawed memory and memory processing of said body. Remove the body and you have basically 2 Options.
A the soul loses all your memory since the physical memory storage is lost and severally damaged in the process of dying(significant damage and loss of memory generally starting long before death). In which case our relationship to our soul is practically the same as to the Atoms of our body. Nothing special just a basic material used while we live which goes back to “nature” after death.
B the soul retains memory separately. Problem with this is that the memories we have and that make us us are not the ones we always had. Quite actually we can´t be Us without our very ability to forget things or at less muddle them up(just at Jho, he could not continue to be who he his without being able to forget what SD discussed last month).
Having all the memories in life would make us substantially different. Such a soul would be nothing more to us but a parasitic voyeur watching everything we do while we live and then going its own way after our death. Figuratively it would not be you(or me) that gets into heaven but the iconic devil/angel parasite portrayed as siting on carton characters shoulder(in this case yours or mine).
> *Originally posted by **[slasher](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=1#posts-6743238):***
> > Life seems to be too complicated to been have made by chance; the sun at the perfect distance, earth spinning at perfect speed, existence of gravity, etc.
> Easily explained by science. Given the huge amounts of planets in the Universe, there is bound to be the ability to create life combined with livable conditions.
> Anyways, if the director of the afterlife exists, hopefully there is a rationale of how the afterlife is chosen for the biological beings. As in if you maliciously murder someone, you go to hell, and ect. A logical god wouldn’t send someone to hell for not being baptized, not following his religion (for with the large population of Earth, and multiple religions, it would be an abomination for a god to force someone to choose the correct religion like a game of Russian roulette), or anything so mediocre as being gay. A god that punishes those for doing mediocre acts with Hell shouldn’t be a deity at all, and should be rebelled against regardless of power. A good and rational god of deistic proportions that has no control over secular life besides the creation of the natural laws of science that may or may not have been put into place to create the universe through the big bang, evolution, geographical formations, ect. that are easily proven is most likely the director of the afterlife, if one exists at all. I should repeat that he has no control, whatsoever, over your life within its secular jurisdiction, if this deity exists at all.
> If there is a god, it would be a rational one. Live a good life, don’t kill or rape people, don’t listen to the fire and brimstone crap that these Westboro baptist church scum spew out.
> If there is no Heaven or Hell, I shouldn’t really care. I’ve lived a good life and am proud of it. I don’t require a reward or punishment, and it’s not like my body will be tortured in the decaying earth, nor will I feel any pain or emotion from this decaying body of mine. it makes god sad when people dont trust him as there savior every time you lie or cheat it makes him sad and he has to punish for what you did unless you believe and accept what you did and repent
> *Originally posted by **[marshthing21](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=6#posts-7366967):***
> it makes god sad when people dont trust him as there savior every time you lie or cheat it makes him sad and he has to punish for what you did unless you believe and accept what you did and repent
The Bibel most make God very sad then, its so full of lies. He must be especially sadden when someone says “God said/did X” or “Jesus said/did X”
> *Originally posted by **[karmakoolkid](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=2#posts-6746191):***
> Good gawd, MyTie.
> Of course, I know ya aren’t reading me….so I shall merely talk ABOUT you rather than TO ya.
> I don’t have much of a “problem” reading your opinions.
> I do have, however, quite a problem making sense of it. I’m NOT saying that in some shitty effort to just rag on ya. I merely feel that your “bonfire analogy” really doesn’t do much for the point ya’re trying to make….at least as I understand it.
> I’m gonna try to mesh what YOU are trying to get across to tenco w/ what he is trying to tell YOU and why YOU just aren’t getting it.
> First, if YOU want to believe (have “faith”) that YOUR understanding of what “God wants” is one thing….obviously, that shouldn’t be a “problem” for YOU.
> However, why do ya think it can’t be a “problem” for others?
> I’m NOT at all saying it HAS TO BE a problem in of itself. The mere faith someone holds shouldn’t be any real problem. It is when such faith is held to be of a nature that it puts others in a light that “lessens” them in some manner. Maybe THAT is what tenco is getting at…that the way YOU come across via YOUR “beliefs” ten to render how other ppl hold their beliefs as being “inferior”.
> Why should this be all that hard to grasp? It is one of the major “short-comings” of a lot of ppl who so fervently “claim” to be deeply engrossed in the ONE TRUE FAITH…as in all other “beliefs” are de facto FALSE.
> THAT just might be the kind of “leverage” tenco is talking about when he is talking about this “strong-arming” thing of: believe as I do…OR, you are going to hell. I’ve always said: fine, since I don’t believe in YOUR hell…I give a shit. After all, I am going to MY heaven.
> Ya see, the one person is “condemning” (for failure to comply) the other via their belief.
> I am NOT condemning anyone via MY belief. My “religion” INCLUDES all others. Most other religions REJECT anything that doesn’t fit their (typically) very narrow tenets…which is why we have umpteen million sects of Baptists.
> So, YES…it can very easily seen (at least as some “Christians” come across) that when they are telling others about the “virtues of following God”…they are tacitly (often OUTRIGHT) telling the other ppl that they are indeed going to hell should they not “mend their ways”….those “ways” being to think, believe, behave as they do.
> MyTie….until YOU can understand this, don’t be all that surprised if some ppl find ya to be somewhat of a zealot.
> Addendum: The following quote pretty well demonstrates what I just said.
> > *Originally posted by **[NaturalReject](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=2#posts-6746159):***
> > > *Originally posted by **[MyTie](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=2#posts-6746101):***
> > >
> > > Simply stated, you have a shitty understanding of Christianity.
> > Simply stated, you have a shitty understanding of reality.
i know i may as well not try but christians are just giving a warning of what is going to happen.. you can believe in what you want but in the end there’s only one 2 ends one for people who believe and one for people that dont
> *Originally posted by **[marshthing21](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=6#posts-7367005)**:
> i know i may as well not try but christians are just giving a warning of what is going to happen.. you can believe in what you want but in the end there’s only one 2 ends one for people who believe and one for people that dont*> *Originally posted by **[TheBSG](/forums/9/topics/320094?page=6#posts-7366729):***
> Nobody who believes in heaven thinks they’re going to hell.
Why aren’t you worried about Nirvana, Ragnarok, Hel, Burotu, Bulu and Murimuria, Hades, Purgatory, Diyu, The Garden of the Gods, Pacha, Brittia the Isle of the Blessed, Pulotu, Guinee, The Fields of Aaru or Duat, Hamistagan, or Irkalla? Because you grew up in a modernized Western country and are superstitious. Those are the places people in the past and places you’ll never live needed to invent in order to feel self validated while holding others to their own standards, so they’re not as effective as Christianity is for feeling self important and taken care of in your home town.
Felt I should say I really enjoyed your post on how our identity is tied to our substrate (word of the week :)) and dependent upon our various electromagnetic/hormonal/ systems, that any soul which departs from a body is not the entirety of of the given individual.