Videogames page 2

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in Japan, where kids play the most videogames, there is far less violence than in America. And countries who’s children play an equal amount of videogames (canada for example), there is still far less violence than in America. So videogames are not the real factor. Maybe it’s the over-patriotic pride of most americans?

 
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Originally posted by hangman95:

Maybe it’s the over-patriotic pride of most americans?

Doubt that. Extreme nationalism exists in almost all countries. I wouldn’t assume “most Americans” fit that description.

 
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Originally posted by IceWeaselX:
Originally posted by hangman95:

Maybe it’s the over-patriotic pride of most americans?

Doubt that. Extreme nationalism exists in almost all countries. I wouldn’t assume “most Americans” fit that description.

yeah, maybe that last comment wasnt nessecary. But videogames are definetely not the factor for extreme violence.

 
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And now, there’s a bill introduced to Congress called H.R. 287: Video Games Ratings Enforcement Act.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr287

The important parts:

“It shall be unlawful for any person to ship or otherwise distribute in interstate commerce, or to sell or rent, a video game that does not contain a rating label, in a clear and conspicuous location on the outside packaging of the video game, containing an age-based content rating determined by the Entertainment Software Ratings Board.”

“It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or rent, or attempt to sell or rent—

(1) any video game containing a content rating of ‘Adults Only’ (as determined by the Entertainment Software Ratings Board) to any person under the age of 18; or (2) any video game containing a content rating of ‘Mature’ (as determined by such Board) to any person under the age of 17."

Punishable by a fine of $5000 per violation.

I doubt this will pass. But if it did, wouldn’t this be a huge problem for Kongregate? At the least, every single game would have to wait for an official ESRB rating. I’m not even sure how you would put the rating on the “outside packaging” of a Kong game – but the law requires it.

Beyond that, it’s a horrible idea to give the ESRB or any other single entity the absolute power to prohibit the sale of games to minors. Video games can be a form of speech. We have had, for example, games on this site protesting SOPA. These games could not have been published in a timely manner if they had to wait for a rating from the ESRB.

 
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The “outside packaging” qualifier should be enough to get this struck down regardless of the rest of it. Software has been available in download-only format for years.

 
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Originally posted by Ceasar:

“It shall be unlawful for any person to ship or otherwise distribute in interstate commerce, or to sell or rent, a video game that does not contain a rating label, in a clear and conspicuous location on the outside packaging of the video game, containing an age-based content rating determined by the Entertainment Software Ratings Board.”

Well that law doesn’t seem that bad, at least not for games you pay money to own.

“It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or rent, or attempt to sell or rent—

(1) any video game containing a content rating of ‘Adults Only’ (as determined by the Entertainment Software Ratings Board) to any person under the age of 18; or
(2) any video game containing a content rating of ‘Mature’ (as determined by such Board) to any person under the age of 17."

Punishable by a fine of $5000 per violation.

Never-mind, worst law ever.

 
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It’s toothless, as usual.

When i was 13, i stupidly sold my super nintendo to the local second hand gaming site in exchange for a playstation. with the proceeds of the games I sold i bought GTA2, a game i couldn’t legally play at the time. obviously the store i bought it from didn’t care either way. They knew they would never be prosecuted, and at the time, GTA2 wasn’t all that important an item (GTA3 had just come out, distracting the authorities). That is to say, the only way a video game could be considered ‘hot’ is if anyone was actively following it. that was in Canada, admittedly, but i doubt any distinction made – the american law is the same as in canada. Unless my american friends can disprove me i strongly doubt this one bill will have similar luck. Games are like downloads – when i was in korea i TOLD my students to pirate any videos they couldn’t get without buying. I did this because i was aware both how unlikely it was they would be caught, and how much easier it would be to get the videos than through the normal channels.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

It’s toothless, as usual.

Maybe the selling to minors part would be toothless and maybe not, but what happens when they come to Kongregate with the fine for distributing unrated games? 66592 games * $5000 per game = $332,960,000. And that’s if they consider it to be a per-game violation, and not a per-access violation. If they consider the game to be “distributed” every time an individual loads up a game, the fine would be… hey, maybe this is secretly a plan for Kongregate to singlehandedly pay off the national debt?

 
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Only if it was upheld.

I told all my korean students to steal everything they could – including games. I don’t expect a single one to pay properly.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

It’s toothless, as usual.

When i was 13, i stupidly sold my super nintendo to the local second hand gaming site in exchange for a playstation. with the proceeds of the games I sold i bought GTA2, a game i couldn’t legally play at the time. obviously the store i bought it from didn’t care either way. They knew they would never be prosecuted, and at the time, GTA2 wasn’t all that important an item (GTA3 had just come out, distracting the authorities). That is to say, the only way a video game could be considered ‘hot’ is if anyone was actively following it. that was in Canada, admittedly, but i doubt any distinction made – the american law is the same as in canada. Unless my american friends can disprove me i strongly doubt this one bill will have similar luck. Games are like downloads – when i was in korea i TOLD my students to pirate any videos they couldn’t get without buying. I did this because i was aware both how unlikely it was they would be caught, and how much easier it would be to get the videos than through the normal channels.

Dude, GTA2 was banned for 13 year olds?
You westreners are weirdos, seriously what a game can possibly do?
or maybe its cultural difference.
I mean we don’t have over obsessive fans of videogames or any work of fiction here.

 
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What work of fiction do you have to venerate over? Aside from porn, you have nothing fictional to see.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

What work of fiction do you have to venerate over? Aside from porn, you have nothing fictional to see.

I mean works of fiction like star wars, Lotr

 
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Both follow christian themes, it isn’t surprising. Anime is more prevalent in pakistan than either of these, partly because there is no systems of morals to follow or depart from.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

Both follow christian themes, it isn’t surprising. Anime is more prevalent in pakistan than either of these, partly because there is no systems of morals to follow or depart from.

Why am I so misunderstood?
I meant we don’t have diehard fans like
westreners are of these series.
We don’t have diehard fans of any work of fiction.
Or maybe the reason is that we have other activities to occupy us in liesure time.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

Only if it was upheld.

Well, yes, it will never be upheld. And it won’t even come to that, since it won’t pass Congress in the first place – most likely it won’t even come out of committee for a vote.

But it disturbs me that a member of Congress would actually introduce the bill. Does he seriously think this is a good idea, or does he know it’s horrible and is just pandering? (And which of those is worse?)

 
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The first part that a video game law requires an ESRB rating is madness, it’s government censorship pandering to private business. The second part, requiring content be sorted for minors doesn’t strike me as significant I am okay with children getting treated as second class citizens.

Although in so many ways Janto, we really are operating at the same level as the proposed bill here in Canada already. Except it’s all bizarro world corporatism. When you make a video game you can send it off to the ESRB, or not, whatever. But! The ESRB has major agreements made with every major video game distributor and console platform. If you are not ESRB rated, they will not allow you to use their console software, and no store in the hemisphere will carry your game. Same as if you receive an AO rating. Which seems like a bad business model, and a bad creative environment. My major consolation is that it certainly has to change. Higher rated games are the ones making money, everyone loves money, and sooner or later the cash flow is going to win out over priests and soccer moms.

 
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Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

The first part that a video game law requires an ESRB rating is madness, it’s government censorship pandering to private business. The second part, requiring content be sorted for minors doesn’t strike me as significant I am okay with children getting treated as second class citizens.

Although in so many ways Janto, we really are operating at the same level as the proposed bill here in Canada already. Except it’s all bizarro world corporatism. When you make a video game you can send it off to the ESRB, or not, whatever. But! The ESRB has major agreements made with every major video game distributor and console platform. If you are not ESRB rated, they will not allow you to use their console software, and no store in the hemisphere will carry your game. Same as if you receive an AO rating. Which seems like a bad business model, and a bad creative environment. My major consolation is that it certainly has to change. Higher rated games are the ones making money, everyone loves money, and sooner or later the cash flow is going to win out over priests and soccer moms.

I don’t have a problem with a store refusing to carry unrated games. I have a bit of a problem if the stores collude with each other and make an agreement not to carry unrated games. I have a HUGE problem when the government says they can’t carry unrated games.

For crying out loud, the ESRB isn’t even a government institution. It’s a nonprofit created by certain members of the software industry. It would be insane to give THEM final authority on what is acceptable content.

And from http://www.esrb.org/ratings/faq.jsp we have this:

“Publishers of packaged or boxed games carrying an ESRB rating are contractually bound to follow the industry-adopted Principles and Guidelines for Responsible Advertising Practices, along with numerous additional requirements addressing how rating information must be displayed on game packaging and in advertising and certain restrictions on where ads for Mature-rated games may appear. The ESRB’s Advertising Review Council (ARC) diligently monitors industry compliance, and in the event that a game publisher is found to have inappropriately labeled or advertised a product, the ESRB is empowered to compel corrective actions and impose a wide range of sanctions, including monetary fines.”

Do you see what the problem is? In order to get an ESRB rating, they need to agree to “terms”. If this bill becomes law, then either:

1) The ESRB will have the power to impose these terms – or whatever terms they like – on every video game producer in the country. This bill states that a game MUST get an ESRB rating, but does NOT state that the ESRB must rate a game. Frankly, Congress does not have the power to force the ESRB, a nonprofit nongovernmental entity, to do their bidding and rate every single game in existence. So, if the ESRB doesn’t like you, you’re just out of luck. Or the ESRB could shut its doors, and suddenly all new video games are illegal.

2) If I’m somehow wrong about the ESRB being able to impose its terms, then it follows that the ESRB will be forced to abandon these terms, weakening what they already have in place.

 
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Absolutely not. I believe the only way it can increase violent or negative behavior is when the player can’t distinguished what is real or not. I think the reason why video games is portrayed very negative in the mainstream media is because people want to find a quick solutions to traumatic events such as shootings and they just simply don’t understand.

 
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Violent video games make people violent. Just like how everybody wanted to find a job as a city planner when Sim City came out.

 
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videogames dont make people violent,. but it does draw violent people to it. (and helping people live out fantasies in virtual worlds instead of doing in real world. hopefully)