Drug war.. Is it worth your time. Yes or no and why page 2

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Originally posted by NaturalReject:That was the basic concept of liberty as Jaume defined it.

Except it isn’t for reasons he just explained.

Originally posted by NaturalReject:

So you would argue that people doing hard drugs are not a threat to public safety?

If they start to operate a metal deathtrap, then yes it is, if they don’t and somehow manage to do those drugs and not harm anyone else, then it would fit.

 
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Originally posted by NaturalReject:
Originally posted by tenco1:

Drunk driving often becomes drunk crashing. (Which you just made up to make an unnecessary difference, by the way)

Why is it unneccessary? If someone can drive drunk without affecting anyone, doesn’t he deserve to be able to do so? That was the basic concept of liberty as Jaume defined it.

Driving drunk has a much higher incidence of crashes, etc.; thus, it should not be legal for anyone.

Furthermore, the government categorising who can and cannot drive while intoxicated by alcohol is a burden on the taxpayers.

So you would argue that people doing hard drugs are not a threat to public safety?

Yes and no. They should be free to consume drugs in their own privacy. However, once they affect others harshly as a consequence of their intoxication/drugs then they should be arrested, prosecuted, etc. Drugs ought to be regulated like alcohol.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:

Except it isn’t for reasons he just explained.

But the reasons he explained assumed the drunk driver is swerving and other things. I’m talking about a drunk driver who stays in control.

If they start to operate a metal deathtrap, then yes it is, if they don’t and somehow manage to do those drugs and not harm anyone else, then it would fit.

Then the drunk driver who doesn’t swerve fits too.

Originally posted by JaumeBG:

Driving drunk has a much higher incidence of crashes, etc.; thus, it should not be legal for anyone.

Many drugs have effects that cause them to be much more likely to harm others.

Furthermore, he government categorising who can and cannot drink while intoxicated by alcohol is a burden on the taxpayers.

You don’t necessarily have to categorise people like that. Drunk driving could be legal until you swerve/crash, sort of like the drug policy you suggest.

Yes and no. They should be free to consume drugs in their own privacy. However, once they affect others harshly as a consequence of their intoxication/drugs then they should be arrested, prosecuted, etc.

Should you be allowed to be intoxicated in public? Or would you consider that an offense?

 
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I think he was being pretty clear. He said it should be legal until you begin to harm others. I don’t see what’s hard to understand natural reject

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

I think he was being pretty clear. He said it should be legal until you begin to harm others. I don’t see what’s hard to understand natural reject

And I compared that to drunk driving being legal until you begin to harm others. How is that hard to understand?

 
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Originally posted by JaumeBG:

I don’t understand why a government has a say in what an individual wants to consume for themselves.

Because in this case you are consuming something that is habit forming and to get your fix you step on others rights. You will steal, or maybe even kill to get enough money to get your next fix. Therefore, you are taking others rights.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
Originally posted by JaumeBG:

I don’t understand why a government has a say in what an individual wants to consume for themselves.

Because in this case you are consuming something that is habit forming and to get your fix you step on others rights. You will steal, or maybe even kill to get enough money to get your next fix. Therefore, you are taking others rights.

YOU MIGHT STEAL SO WE NEED TO STEAL FROM YOU IN ORDER TO FUND A PROGRAM TO STEAL FROM YOU

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Because in this case you are consuming something that is habit forming and to get your fix you step on others rights. You will steal, or maybe even kill to get enough money to get your next fix. Therefore, you are taking others rights.

Nicotine is habit forming, yet you don’t see smokers stealing and killing others to get enough money to buy a pack of cigarettes. This is how it works when the government regulates addictive substances instead of banning them outright. They get to cream off a nice slice of tax on top as well.

For this argument of yours to hold, you would need to be calling out to ban cigarettes, as the people who consume nicotine are criminals.

Otherwise, if you unban the illegal drugs and tax and regulate their usage, you put the users of these drugs in the same category as smokers – just as likely to steal for a fix as a smoker is to steal to buy cigarettes.

 
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Nicotine is habit forming, yet you don’t see smokers stealing and killing others to get enough money to buy a pack of cigarettes. This is how it works when the government regulates addictive substances instead of banning them outright. They get to cream off a nice slice of tax on top as well.

Well here’s the stealing part… timely as well.

 
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All of the anti drug people on here are talking about things you don’t know…. Apparently you’ve never tried illegal drugs which (some) can be safer than alcohol. You don’t steal to use drugs.most people actually make money by working. I don’t know anyone that steals for drugs. That’s like saying gun owners go on a rampage sometime in their life… Completely senseless. Use your head and think for yourself people.

 
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I don’t know anyone that steals for drugs.

A compelling argument

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
I don’t know anyone that steals for drugs.

A compelling argument

Well I don’t… What is there to argue about anyways people will use drugs no matter the law and as long as they don’t harm anyone I don’t care what people do.

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

Well I don’t… What is there to argue about anyways people will use drugs no matter the law and as long as they don’t harm anyone I don’t care what people do.

So you wouldn’t mind if someone installed a hidden camera in your shower?

 
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What are you talking about? When did I ever say anything that even suggests that? Of course I’d mind.

 
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But its not harming anyone; you are not being harmed, you are just being filmed whilst naked, and then somewhere someone is masturbating to the sight of you naked.

This means that you do care what people do, if it involves you. Even if it doesn’t actually affect you. I mean yes, once they have the recording, they can do what they like with it – perhaps publish it on youtube. Its still not doing harm to you, yet you’d be rather upset I’d bet.

So this is where your argument falls down. If it has some negative effect on you, on your physical form, on your social status, or self-esteem, you start to care if another is breaking the law – trespassing, breaking & entering, privacy laws in this example.

Whilst not every crime will affect another person, many of them will. Say guy shoots up whilst driving, and his drug-induced high turns the road into a neon-colored mega-trip. Whilst tripping he collides with another car at high speed – your family’s car. You survive, but everyone else is killed. You yourself are really banged up. Would you be able to categorically state that you didn’t care that the person was using drugs at an inappropriate time, in an inappropriate (illegal) manner in this instance?

I mean sure, you’ve just lost everyone you love, and with your spine broken, you’ll be spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair, but hey, you’re cool with him driving whilst tripped out of his mind, right?

 
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Well tell me if you would feel harmed while being secretly filmed naked and if that would effect you. Because it would effect me.. You see when I say harm I don’t just mean physically. And besides can you not see how you would harm someone by secretly filming them while naked?? Now tell me how you would harm someone by sitting in your room alone and smoking marijuana. This is just ridiculous lol.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

But its not harming anyone; you are not being harmed, you are just being filmed whilst naked, and then somewhere someone is masturbating to the sight of you naked.

This means that you do care what people do, if it involves you. Even if it doesn’t actually affect you. I mean yes, once they have the recording, they can do what they like with it – perhaps publish it on youtube. Its still not doing harm to you, yet you’d be rather upset I’d bet.

So this is where your argument falls down. If it has some negative effect on you, on your physical form, on your social status, or self-esteem, you start to care if another is breaking the law – trespassing, breaking & entering, privacy laws in this example.

Whilst not every crime will affect another person, many of them will. Say guy shoots up whilst driving, and his drug-induced high turns the road into a neon-colored mega-trip. Whilst tripping he collides with another car at high speed – your family’s car. You survive, but everyone else is killed. You yourself are really banged up. Would you be able to categorically state that you didn’t care that the person was using drugs at an inappropriate time, in an inappropriate (illegal) manner in this instance?

I mean sure, you’ve just lost everyone you love, and with your spine broken, you’ll be spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair, but hey, you’re cool with him driving whilst tripped out of his mind, right?

Did he not hurt someone?? It seems like it to me so of course I would care and press charges. Just as I said I would feel about it if anyone is harmed.

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

Well tell me if you would feel harmed while being secretly filmed naked and if that would effect you. Because it would effect me.. You see when I say harm I don’t just mean physically. And besides can you not see how you would harm someone by secretly filming them while naked?? Now tell me how you would harm someone by sitting in your room alone and smoking marijuana. This is just ridiculous lol.

How could something you don’t know possibly affect you? Your life would be exactly identical whether you have been filmed in the shower or not. If you have the right to claim that something that’s not affecting you does harm to you, someone else has the right to claim that the marijuana user is harming them even without interaction.

 
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Well if I didn’t know about myself being filmed than I guess I wouldn’t be harmed and I guess I couldn’t do anything about it seeing as I don’t even know about it. But apparently if I did know than it would be harming my privacy. And that is why I have the right to claim it is harming me…. On the other hand if if someone smokes marijuana they would only be harming themselves. So nobody has the right to claim that user is harming them…. This should be common sense… Guy secretly filming you naked= harmful\unfriendly, guy smoking marijuana in his room= who cares…. I mean I don’t know why you would care about a guy smoking whatever in his room.i really don’t see what your getting at natural reject and I am trying to.

 
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Why would you care if someone is looking at you?

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

Did he not hurt someone?? It seems like it to me so of course I would care and press charges. Just as I said I would feel about it if anyone is harmed.

However, you would not care – by your own previous statement – that he was on something mind altering at the time, and would continue to not give a shit if other people dose up whilst driving, yea?

Say the guy doesn’t actually hit your family car, but swerves all over the road at 50mph, and misses hitting you all by inches. Takes out a street light further down the road. Was this still okay? After all, none of you were actually harmed, and you can all go about your lives, somewhat shaken but unhurt.

Do you still not care that people might be shoving all sorts of crap into their bodies whilst driving, that has a detrimental effect on their ability to perceive the world around them whilst driving?

 
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Actually I just said I would care if someone hit me when they aren’t able to operate a vehicle. I don’t think anyone should drive like that. If someone poses a real danger to other people around them then that danger should be removed. The problem is what people think of as a danger. But that a whole other topic, my main point in this thread is people should be free to do as they please as long as they don’t harm (*or put anyone in imminent danger)

 
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I do drugs, does that make me a bad person?

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

Actually I just said I would care if someone hit me when they aren’t able to operate a vehicle. I don’t think anyone should drive like that. If someone poses a real danger to other people around them then that danger should be removed. The problem is what people think of as a danger. But that a whole other topic, my main point in this thread is people should be free to do as they please as long as they don’t harm (*or put anyone in imminent danger)

Why is your view of what is danger better than anyone else’s?