People who do drugs.. Are they morally bad?

51 posts

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Well I’ve never posted anything along these lines but I have about drug laws. So my question is… Well what the post’s title says. Do you think someone is morally bad for using drugs. Axiom religion doesn’t matter in this post. Keep in mind most people you see and might like on the big screen use drugs. Alcohol included… In fact one of the hardest drugs out there. And if yes or no why would you support throwing them in a cage for it?

 
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Define what morally bad is supposed to mean and you might get some answers.

 
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Well we’ll leave that to others because everyone has they’re different perspective on morality. I couldn’t define that for everyone. Nor will I take my time to fully explain my point of view on that. But to make it short as long as you hurt nobody but yourself your morally ok. Of course there is variables in that but that’s my short version.

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

Well we’ll leave that to others because everyone has they’re different perspective on morality. I couldn’t define that for everyone. Nor will I take my time to fully explain my point of view on that. But to make it short as long as you hurt nobody but yourself your morally ok. Of course there is variables in that but that’s my short version.

SD Guidelines, Rule 2. Try to contribute to your thread in your very first post. Don’t just share links to news articles or sources, but elaborate on their significance and implications. We want to hear from you, after all!

The contribute to your thread part implies you should spend the time to type your opinion if you want others to spend their time sharing their opinions

 
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Ok sorry but I honestly never read the rules. I thought it was a forum about serious discussion. And I thought I had a good basis for serious discussion. Really, I’m not being sarcastic or anything like that. I asked what you guys think about this not about my morality views. Maybe you need to review the rules you know. I posted a question that fits in “serious discussion” category.again not about my view on morality. Read the topic. If I had posted about my view on morality I would clarify a lot more than I did. But I’m simply wondering what others think about this topic pertaining to they’re morality believes, not mine, if you can’t understand that sorry.

 
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The rule makes perfect sense from simply reading the forum name. If it is serious discussion, you should discuss. Simply asking people what they think is not discussing at all.

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:

Define what morally bad is supposed to mean and you might get some answers.

ABSOLUTELY!
Morality is an personal AND societal issue that is soooooooo SUBJECTIVE that one//all can DISCUSS it ad nauseum…..and, while some “things” can be “learned” by different ppl, very little will be what one might see as “ESTABLISHED”.

I say established because a part of the subjectivity of morality is that it CHANGES constantly (meaning: NOT established)….to & fro. This, obviously, can be said about an individual AND a society.

Originally posted by Wraymond:

Ok, sorry but I honestly ….

I always find humor when someone says this.
Am I to understand that when they don’t preface a statement w/ it,,,I should be suspect of all else they say?

…never read the rules.
Seriously?
Why not?
Are YOU in the habit of “joining a club” and NOT seeing a “need” to understand the rules of it?

I thought it was a forum about serious discussion.

No shit, Sherlock.
What was YOUR first clue?
Maybe the TITLE of the forum?
Or, maybe it has more to do w/ the first two words (“I” being counted as one) in your statement above? <<< being sarcastic…LOL

And I thought I had a good basis for serious discussion.

What part of what EPR said do ya NOT understand?

Really, I’m not being sarcastic or anything like that. I asked what you guys think about this not about my morality views.

Fair enough.
But, I’m not quite so likely to “show ya mine…if ya don’t show me yours”.

Maybe you need to review the rules you know.

Hmmmm. “Not being sarcastic”….eh?
More like just being an ASS.
I think someone point this out about YOU just a few days ago.

I posted a question that fits in “serious discussion” category.again not about my view on morality.

Well…thanks for repeating, I guess.
However, I think most of us here aren’t to the point (YET?) that we can’t remember recent material.
OR, failing THAT, we can scroll up and refresh our understandings.

Read the topic.

Why do YOU “ASSume” anyone hasn’t?

If I had posted about my view on morality I would clarify a lot more than I did.

Is this like saying: a round circle?

But I’m simply wondering what others think about this topic pertaining to they’re THEIR morality believes BELIEFS, not mine, if you can’t understand that, sorry.
 
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Okay let me repost this than. What do you think about the main topic post pertaining to your morality… Not mine. That was the question. I’m sorry again if I didn’t make that clear. Yes that was my question if you can’t understand that ill say it again. What do you think about my question pertain inning to your morality, not mine.

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

Okay let me repost this than THEN. What do you think about the main topic post pertaining to your morality… Not mine. That was the question. I’m sorry again if I didn’t make that clear. Yes that was my question if you can’t understand that ill say it again. What do you think about my question pertain inning to your morality, not mine.

Okay…let me repeat.
OR, better yet…YOU actually read what I (& the others) have written.
Give it some thought.
Try to see where YOU aren’t grasping what we are saying,,,
ya know WE…as in the ppl YOU want to discuss YOUR topic.
If ya can’t do THAT….what makes ya think we want to proceed w/ this debacle?

Now, tell me,
just why is YOUR morality “off limit”?

AND:

Axiom: religion doesn’t matter in this post
Tell me,
since morality is pretty much very closely associated with religion,,,
why is it excluded?

AND, axiom or not…
dontchya think ya ought to clarify that ya (propable?) are talking about ILLEGAL drugs?
Ya do know that there are one helluva lot of ppl. “doing” a helluva lot of “drugs”?

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

Okay let me repost this than. What do you think about the main topic post pertaining to your morality… Not mine. That was the question. I’m sorry again if I didn’t make that clear. Yes that was my question if you can’t understand that ill say it again. What do you think about my question pertain inning to your morality, not mine.

You’re still not discussing. Why are you in serious discussion if you’re not discussing?

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
since morality is pretty much very closely associated with religion,,,

You don’t need religion to have morality. Removing the excuse “because god” from a discussion is very reasonable.

 
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To me, the general use of drugs is one of those (quite few) special things which is legally bad but morally fine.

It’s only once you get into drug + something else that the moral problems start.

 
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Have to agree with Neil. Those who have become addicted don’t have any moral problems unless they start having to justify stealing to feed it. Whereas those who cut the drug with something else to make their supply go further when they are charging more for it, are in a very black moral area. Especially when their substance of choice is a much cheaper drug that reacts very badly with the one they’re peddling, and starts giving their customers health complications.

 
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Originally posted by Wraymond:

You are all fools. Drugs will always be available. No matter how much anyone cuts it: that’s one of my main points: it wouldn’t ever be cut if it was legal. It you can’t realize that you are ignorant.

Oh yeah, that’s a good idea, treat the only people who are trying to give your thread a chance like shit. That’s totally not going to make people think that you’re not actually trying to use this forum correctly.

 
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Originally posted by NaturalReject:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
since morality is pretty much very closely associated with religion,,,

You don’t need religion to have morality. Removing the excuse “because god” from a discussion is very reasonable.

Maybe I should have gone on further and stated the “obvious”.
That being: just because something is ASSOCIATED w/ an entity doesn’t mean that the something is the ONLY association possible.

Tacitly, I did not EXCLUDE ANY OTHER “belief system”.
It is just that since Wrymond was speaking SPECIFICALLY about “religion”,,,
such is what I solely addressed.

But, YOU are right about “not needing religion to have morality”.
And… conversely (and completely subjective here and ONLY my opinion…but), I know quite a few “religious” folk who I don’t consider to be very “moral”.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Maybe I should have gone on further and stated the “obvious”.

It’s not obvious at all to many people which is why I wanted to clarify. There are many people who actually hold the opinion that morality cannot exist without a god.

 
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Originally posted by NaturalReject:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Maybe I should have gone on further and stated the “obvious”.

It’s not obvious at all to many people which is why I wanted to clarify. There are many people who actually hold the opinion that morality cannot exist without a god.

While I wholeheartedly agree w/ that in bold…
such isn’t what I meant by “the obvious”.

I covered that when I said: …just because something is ASSOCIATED w/ an entity doesn’t mean that the something is the ONLY association possible.

I went on to further explain why I did not touch on any of the other possibilities…
that being: It is just that since Wrymond was speaking SPECIFICALLY about “religion”,,,
such is what I solely addressed.

And yes, I (along w/ those who have good minds) fully realize that—while many ppl do make the association between religion & morality,,,and that they do so in a plethora of assorted & sordid manner—just because the apple & the orange are in same fruit basket…they are still separately an orange & an apple,,,,even when all diced up into a “fruit medley” of very subjectively complicated social mores.

 
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No, they are not morally bad. As the laws are now, they are breaking the law, but that does not mean that they are morally bad. The drug laws are flawed. The “war on drugs”, as it is often called, is a massive waste of money and needs to stop. If someone wants to do drugs, then that is thier own decision. It is not morally good or bad. You are not doing something immoral when you take drugs and it should not be that you would be doing something illegal by doing so. Whether or not to use drugs is an idividual decision, the law should not be concerned with it.

 
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Drugs in and of themselves are just objects, and not morally good or bad. However:

Using certain drugs is morally bad because they harm your body. This could be anything from an immediate death by OD, or lung cancer in a few decades.

Using certain drugs is morally bad because they cause you to lose control over yourself. This loss of control can cause you to do other things which are morally bad.

Purchasing drugs can be morally bad because they are often sold by gangs, who can engage in violent turf wars. “Chicago’s McCarthy said the city’s high murder rate, up 18 percent over last year as of Dec. 16, was due to gang violence. Eighty percent of the homicides were gang-related and 80 percent of the victims were African-Americans, he said.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/29/chicago-homicide-rate-new-york_n_2378073.html

SELLING drugs can be morally bad because you are encouraging much of the above.

Being involved with drugs might be morally bad for some people because of the legal consequences themselves. If you have a child, then all else being equal, doing something that could put you in jail is a bad thing, because it deprives the child of a parent. (Or if you spend all your money on fines, or on a lawyer – or even on the drugs themselves – it could deprive the child in other ways.)

 
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Originally posted by Ceasar:

Drugs in and of themselves are just objects, and not morally good or bad. However:

Using certain drugs is morally bad because they harm your body. This could be anything from an immediate death by OD, or lung cancer in a few decades.

Using certain drugs is morally bad because they cause you to lose control over yourself. This loss of control can cause you to do other things which are morally bad.

Purchasing drugs can be morally bad because they are often sold by gangs, who can engage in violent turf wars. “Chicago’s McCarthy said the city’s high murder rate, up 18 percent over last year as of Dec. 16, was due to gang violence. Eighty percent of the homicides were gang-related and 80 percent of the victims were African-Americans, he said.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/29/chicago-homicide-rate-new-york_n_2378073.html

SELLING drugs can be morally bad because you are encouraging much of the above.

Being involved with drugs might be morally bad for some people because of the legal consequences themselves. If you have a child, then all else being equal, doing something that could put you in jail is a bad thing, because it deprives the child of a parent. (Or if you spend all your money on fines, or on a lawyer – or even on the drugs themselves – it could deprive the child in other ways.)

I completely disagree with you. I don’t think harming yourself in any way except maybe for preemptively killing yourself (doing drugs is not preemptively killing yourself, as in people usually do not use drugs in order to kill themselves) is morally bad. and as far as contributing to gangs, blame that on the laws not drug users. If drugs were legal and regulated like alcohol it would be out of the hands of criminals completely. And if you truly believe harming yourself is bad than I’m pretty sure you are mortally bad according to your beliefs. Do you eat only salads and excersise every day? If not you are harming yourself. Heart failure is the number one cause of death in most if not all country’s , not drug overdose.

 
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Ceasar,

Using certain drugs is morally bad because they harm your body. This could be anything from an immediate death by OD, or lung cancer in a few decades.

Is doing something to harm one’s own body necessarily morally bad?

Using certain drugs is morally bad because they cause you to lose control over yourself. This loss of control can cause you to do other things which are morally bad.

That’s a slippery slope fallacy. An example: “building technology could cause more tech advances which could create robots that could kill everybody, therefore tech innovation is bad!” when building technology will not necessarily cause everyone to be destroyed by robots.

Accordingly, doing drugs will not necessarily cause someone to do something morally bad, like stealing, harming, or killing. A lot of the time, getting drunk or getting high is privately practiced in the home for the purpose of simply having a good time.

Purchasing drugs can be morally bad because they are often sold by gangs, who can engage in violent turf wars. (…) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/29/chicago-homicide-rate-new-york_n_2378073.html

This makes more sense, if the person is aware of the fact that they are buying drugs which fund a malevolent organization. Being unaware of the dealer’s association with the gang, however, is not intrinsically morally wrong.

If a baby pushes a seemingly harmless red button that, everytime it is pushed, someone is harmed, does that make the baby immoral?

SELLING drugs can be morally bad because you are encouraging much of the above.

This argument relies on the validity of the premises which you addressed above, which are currently in question.

Being involved with drugs might be morally bad for some people because of the legal consequences themselves.

Laws are only a rough indicator of a society’s morality; in not all cases do the rules/laws determine what is morally correct. As an example, I run for my school’s track and cross country teams. In certain cases, one specific individual runs faster than he is supposed to on easy/recovery days and influences other newer runners to do the same, tiring everyone out for the workout the next day, which brings down the team. Being a senior member and the top of my team in performance, I’ve reminded this runner a few times of what he is supposed to be doing on designated easy days. When I do, it seems, he slows his pace and refrains from his fast-paced habits for a while, but eventually will start up again. One day he told on me for “scolding him” (which I did not do) and consequently the coach personally talked to me about my interactions with this runner. He told me that I was correct in what I was saying, but I should not tell the runner what to do; the coach went over appropriate paces for everyone at practice, but this did not influence the aforementioned runner’s hot-headedness.

Basically, although the “rules” as stated by my coach forbid me from telling other runners what to do, I know that I know more of what goes on in the distance runs more than my coach does at times, and will continue to remind others of the appropriate paces to run even if I have been told not to, as my actions help out everyone on the team. Even if I was threatened to be kicked off the team (which wouldn’t happen), I would still be doing the morally right thing — the other runner reporting that I’m scolding him would be in the moral wrong for hurting others’ chances at fame. In other cases, such as speaking out against the political corruption that goes on in Russia (especially in Chechnya), one may be arrested and taken from their family for “breaking the law” even though doing so may be fighting tyranny and be morally right.

In essence, morality often goes above the laws/rules as set by a governing body, even if there are possible negative consequences for breaking them.

 
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Purchasing drugs can be morally bad because they are often sold by gangs, who can engage in violent turf wars.

What if the person buying the drugs is completely unaware of the possibility that the dealer could be connected to a gang? Wouldn’t that be the dealer being immoral, not the customer?

In my opinion, the taking of drugs is legally bad but not morally bad, since they’re the ones taking it and they see no problem with it. However, once someone is addicted to a drug they may turn to crime to feed their addiction, which is morally wrong by anyones standards.

 
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If taking drugs makes you immoral because of what might happen, having children is immoral because they might die or you might lose all of your money and be unable to take care of them. Couching morality in the possible ways a decision could be malicious doesn’t make any actual statements about the overall morality of a decision, it implies the morality of people who make that decision for the reasons you’ve mentioned.

This forum constantly re-enforces my statement that Logic, Statistics, Ethics and Probability need to be taught in early education.

 
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My dad used to borrow my allowance, to buy crack.When I was a Teenager, it’s hard to pull away from it.

 
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If you (OP or others) wish to research this topic you will find a couple of interesting facts – or what strongly appear to be facts from my research on this topic:

1) Marijuana has a bunch of valid medical uses, so many that it might legitimately be called a “wonder drug” if it was patented and sold in its current form (and maybe without the psychedelic effect which some people seem to take issue with).

2) Numerous psychedelic drugs also have medical uses when used properly, uses such as helping people deal with trauma, addictions, and other psychological issues. Note that the caveat when used properly is important here, as more damage then benefit can occur when one is not taking them in a supportive environment, with the right mindset, or in too high of a dosage. Ayahuasca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca is one of the better known psychedelics used for achieving emotional healing and such, though numerous others have similar effects when used wisely.

Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsk8R_j5zzg is an excellent presentation on the (massive failure of the) “War on Drugs”, a presentation given by a former high-ish level “drug warrior” to Google. The “War on Drugs” has failed by virtually every meaningful measure one can measure it by, it has done a whole lot of damage with little to no benefit, and at tremendous cost to society.

 
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Originally posted by markwinfield1:

My dad used to borrow my allowance, to buy crack.When I was a Teenager, it’s hard to pull away from it.

What! Then why give you allowance in the first place!?