Does God exists? and why? page 5 (locked)

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You know,
faith.
Belief without strong proof. (Weak proof = ancient writings)

 
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No, it’s the belief where the universe and its history was created when you were, and you subconscious is God, or somesuch.
Basically, it’s selfish and naive.

Solipsism. It’s also as hard to disprove as any supreme power theory.

Really?
So something that can easily be deduced from observing how it works with other people who are younger than you and by looking at history that was recorded before your birth and had an effect on today is similar to accepting a totally baseless claim that you have no evidence for whatsoever other than faith.
Interesting.

But it’s all illusion! You only think you’re people, like the characters in my dreams, I am the only real person. History, and all that, is the genius craft of my subconscious, setting an interesting story to things.

 
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Originally posted by thecartm:

You know,
faith.
Belief without strong proof. (Weak proof = ancient writings)

Wow… And you honestly think that you are in a position to talk people down for having an inaccurate view of religion?
Faith is not religion.
Faith is one factor of religion.

And who the hell disputes Jesus’ birth?
And why does it even matter? Jesus was a human. It’s the thing religion attributes to him that people doubt. Because there is no evidence for it. That he was/is god and all that stuff. Everything brought up as evidence for that is essentially distortion and/or reorganisation and -interpretation of evidence for completely different things or simply stories, myths and legends.


Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

Really?
So something that can easily be deduced from observing how it works with other people who are younger than you and by looking at history that was recorded before your birth and had an effect on today is similar to accepting a totally baseless claim that you have no evidence for whatsoever other than faith.
Interesting.


But it’s all illusion! You only think you’re people, like the characters in my dreams, I am the only real person. History, and all that, is the genius craft of my subconscious, setting an interesting story to things.

Just give me pink unicorns and I can die a happy… Imagination?

 
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Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

Solipsism. It’s also as hard to disprove as any supreme power theory.

Right, I knew is started with an “S” and I couldn’t pronounce it.

Originally posted by thecartm:

You know,
faith.
Belief without strong proof. (Weak proof = ancient writings)

Which is not inextricably entwined with religion.

 
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Originally posted by thecartm:

You know,
faith.
Belief without strong proof. (Weak proof = ancient writings)

Just the way you think of it, because some people think it’s vice versa.

 
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Putting logic into religion is just stupid. Many unnecessary and meaningless arguments arise from it. We all know that something cannot be rationalized at all.

“Why do you love a fat, ugly, poor, stupid girl?”
“Because f*ck you, that’s why.”

Or something like this:
“Son, you know what, there’s no Santa Claus. I bought the presents.”
WAAAAH!”

And that’s why some people are immediately enraged when you talk about religion — they believe because they FEEL like believing, not because they THINK they should believe.

 
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Originally posted by xProStar:

God doesn’t exist.

… If your going to post here you need to explain your reasons

 
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Look, I don’t put my time into religion, just so you know. The term of “god” is flexible. God as a person? No. As a thing beyond comprehension? Yes.

 
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Originally posted by thecartm:

Look, I don’t put my time into religion, just so you know. The term of “god” is flexible. God as a person? No. As a thing beyond comprehension? Yes.

So you are talking people down for arguing against your points and then you go on to explain that you don’t understand them yourself because they are beyond comprehension…
Perfect..
Just perfect…

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:
Originally posted by thecartm:

Look, I don’t put my time into religion, just so you know. The term of “god” is flexible. God as a person? No. As a thing beyond comprehension? Yes.

So you are talking people down for arguing against your points and then you go on to explain that you don’t understand them yourself because they are beyond comprehension…
Perfect..
Just perfect…

And how he’s admitted to not actually spending that much time into religion, but somehow we know less than him about it.

Hate to say it, but I think he be trolling now.

 
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God exists. He is above all, and is deeply in love with you. He existed before all of this was created and loves you each individually. He made Jesus to pass the test that Adam and Eve failed, and much of our sin (low self esteem, sex, drink, drugs, ego, desires, selfishness, hate, sorrow, pain) comes from when Adam, the son of God, wanted to be God. After God sent him away from his Holiness and onto in the earth, everything changed. When God made Jesus, Jesus passed the test and most of all, defeated sin. When he was on the cross he was thinking of each and every one of you, and sacrificed himself so that you can one day be like him. Jesus is a teacher, and the ones who read the bible while having faith and believing the God, read the bible the right way. The ones who don’t believe in God and read the bible, probably won’t understand scripture. Jesus tells us to consider ourselves less, and not above others. He does this because in his eyes, you are more than anything, and no one can see that but him, and the only way anyone else can see that is if the same thing is happening to him. Jesus never said he did any miracles, or saved people, what he said was that God did all of it. Jesus was a slave of God, but believe me, it’s worth everything in the world. There’s also and wide path and a narrow path. Jesus says take the narrow path that leads to good and righteousness, and the broad path that leads to destruction. A lot of you are probably on that path that leads to destruction right now, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t believe in God. Don’t go around saying that: “God started the holocaust, or God hates Jews, or God hates homosexuality.” Because all of that, is bullshit. Why? Because of Christianity. I’m sure you’ve already assumed i’m christian, right? i go to church, i pray, all that stuff. But actually, i’m not. Christianity is something that is made by man. It didn’t exist until the bible was written, and that was long after Jesus was alive. My point to the fact that we as man created christianity, it’s twisted. We are all twisted, you see. A lot of things you hear in Christianity is false, and a lot of things the people use Church for is wrong. God never said to accept Jesus in your heart. What God said was what Jesus said, and that was to love one another. It’s possible to take something out of the bible and use it in offense to your own opinion, but i warn you, it’s quite dangerous. You eyes weren’t meant for the word of Jesus, and like so many people do, they read the bible upside down. If you pay attention..and actually care about what you’re reading, you see that the bible is the nicest book ever. God never hates you, and the things he does are things that lead you to Jesus. A lot of things you believe are usually from Satan, who wants to bring you down, kill, and destroy every last part of you. But God can restore that, and the fight was already won. Christianity isn’t about believe in God or not, it’s about a lot more. It’s about love, it’s about coming together as a church and worshiping. When he says: “Glorify God,” he doesn’t mean you should just wave your arms up. He means that when you’re in the presence of God, he’s not going to waist that time not letting you glorify him. And if you have a hard time believing then tell God to help you with your problems, but he never leaves you. Love does.

 
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Originally posted by LinkinPark037:

God exists. He is above all, and is deeply in love with you.

Oh, this’ll be just rich.

 
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@LinkinPark037

You listed some interesting concepts. I am an atheist and the biggest thing that drove me away from Christianity, which I was indoctrinated into, is the hypocrisy of the system. My mom and dad made me go to church every week, even though my mom would half the time never show up or come late. My parents fought a lot as I grew up and it took a toll on me and it slowly became apparent to me that my parents weren’t true Christians. Yet they still went to church everyday, probably more of an image thing.

There are so many people today that I think don’t understand Jesus’s actual intended messages. The offering plate gets handed around at my church every week. They are now renovating their sanctuary for a tremendous amount of money, most of which probably went directly to the church from weekly donations. The major decisions of Christianity weren’t even discussed until the Council of Nicaea at about 325 AD, about 300 years after the supposed death of Jesus. If there is one thing that I can agree with you on, it’s that the idea of Christianity has been ruined by men. I hear that the bible is the ultimate source of truth, directly written by the hands of God himself. But there are a lot of problems when this book gets misinterpreted by men.

I’m just wondering, do you think homophobic Christians are really going to heaven? For a man like Jesus who believed so much in equality, who knows, maybe Jesus just lived out of historical context. I feel as if the true soon of God would believe in equality towards all people regardless of race, gender, nationality and sexual identity.

Lots of people claim that they know Jesus and live by him everyday, but many of them aren’t bright enough to look at the stupidity that they preach and how un-Jesus like it really is.

This is the main argument that really got me thinking that maybe, there is no God.

Imagine God exists and he is fair and just. In fact he is the fairest, most equal force every conceived in the Universe. This very fair God creates humans and around the Earth, everyday. He borns people into different geographical regions which are for the most part, separated by different religions. Say for a moment you were not born in a Christian nation like you were, (im guessing you were born in a primarily Christian country like America or Europe somewhere), but you were born into Iran. If you are born in Iran, you are most likely going to become a Muslim. You praise Allah everyday and claim Muhammad is the last prophet. There is practically no chance you will every become a Christian. You will be born into Islam and die a Muslim. You will go to hell because a Christian God judged you and saw you did not believe in Jesus Christ.

You have to understand there are good people in this world. Good Muslims, atheists, Christians, Buddhists, agnostics, Jews. and if they do not believe in Jesus Christ you believe they will go to hell. Well personally, I believe that a just and fair God would not allow good people to go to hell even if they were born on the wrong side of the globe. I’m willing to take that bet that I won’t go to hell because if there really is a God that is jealous and unfair, I would rather go to hell then worship him.

So I am now an atheist. My atheistic beliefs were reinforced by history and science. The Crusades killed millions of people and it was a Christian doing. They believed if they died trying to retake the holy city they would go to heaven.

In this modern day and age, it is foolish to believe that the world is 6000 years old. We continue to refine carbon dating which shows the world is approximately 4 billion years old.

There is tons of other scientific evidence that would suggest there is no higher power or deity. Many of the original creations myths in the bible have different (in some cases, older) variations that basically interchange the names (ex. noahs ark).

Hope you got a different perspective from this post and hopefully some good discussion comes form it.

 
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Originally posted by bjjdude:
Originally posted by xProStar:

God doesn’t exist.

… If your going to post here you need to explain your reasons

I that it was OT sorry XD

 
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I do believe in the existence of God, and that Christianity is the foundation of my life.

There is no reason to prove anything to anyone, though. Bringing up topics for people to dramatise on…meh. If you are really that interested, look it up.

 
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Originally posted by Crestmage:

I do believe in the existence of God, and that Christianity is the foundation of my life.

There is no reason to prove anything to anyone, though. Bringing up topics for people to dramatise on…meh. If you are really that interested, look it up.

This form is made for discussion of topics. not just stating that something is true/untrue

 
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Originally posted by EPR89:

And who the hell disputes Jesus’ birth?

Well i do. There is no evidence that proves that the Jesus of Nazareth in the Bible was a real Person, even if you exclude the wonders and religious claims.
But thats quite different than thecartm’s standpoint since its actually based on recorded history instead of denying it.

 
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God doesn’t exist.

God exists.

[citation needed]
You guys place 7 and 1 in the Dawkins Spectrum of Theistic Probability, which is not very honorable. I have yet to see a single atheist spokesperson that indentifies himself as a 7.

 
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Originally posted by HolyLasagna:

Whilst I am definitely no atheist, I would identify as a 7, Lasagna. I believe gods are possible, but see that one as a wholly human construct. Outside of the meta-entity I’ve described before, the Christian god doesn’t exist at all. It was created entirely by the minds of humans, and exists nowhere else but in those minds, and in meme-form in print, also penned by humans.

I seriously doubt any gods that do exist, care about or even know about the human race. What could we possibly offer beings of such power? What could an ant colony offer you?

Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:

There is no evidence that proves that the Jesus of Nazareth in the Bible was a real Person, even if you exclude the wonders and religious claims.

Chances are, he was actually three or four (or five or six) real people, each of whom acted as the inspiration for the tales penned about him. In the same manner as today we create films ‘based on a true story’, so the larger-than-life character of Jesus would have been assembled at least in part, from actual events.

 
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It is completely unscientific to claim that you know for certainty that there is no Abrahamic God. You also can’t say there are no fairies or a teapot orbiting Jupiter. Those are technicalities, and it is OK to say “Oh, there is no such thing as a God” in everyday speech. The important thing is not being a dogmatic person. Free thinkers have good reputation among because they follow the evidence wherever it may lead. Being a “7” means that you won’t get convinced otherwise even with copious amount of evidence – this is the case with too many theists.

 
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Agreed.

 
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Originally posted by HolyLasagna:

Being a “7” means that you won’t get convinced otherwise even with copious amount of evidence – this is the case with too many theists.

There is no evidence. There is a considerable amount of evidence against, but no evidence for. So yes Lasagnae, if you were somehow able to destroy all the evidence against, then I would be forced to re-evaluate my stance.

But the fact is that the only acts the Christian god has ever done, have come from the minds and bodies of those believing in it. He’s a meta-entity. A god yes, but not the creator of the universe. He was born from the minds of humankind, not the other way around.

There might be a god or two or three that have passed on by or observed us and inspired bits of the tale, but they’re not the same entity.

He may exist one day as something more – when we have the technology to literally merge minds together into a single being, then I can see him physically existing as the gestalt of all his believers, their minds fully overriden into just one consciousness; a true single being in a legion of bodies. But even that will not retcon the creation of life on Earth, or the creation of the planet itself.

He will be a physical entity from that point forwards – not before.

 
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But you’re talking about theism in regards to a single religion. Atheism in regards to all religions is a temporary stance. There is no positive evidence that no god exists, therefore 7 is quite a claim. You yourself believe there are likely God-creatures in existence today: The key to atheism is acknowledging our lack of information about them, if they even exist. The stance that Christianity, as it is described, is inherently false is different from the stance that all religions/gods are inherently false. The only word you need to add to that last stance is “known.” All known claims about God/s are patently falsifiable.

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

But you’re talking about theism in regards to a single religion. Atheism in regards to all religions is a temporary stance. There is no positive evidence that no god exists, therefore 7 is quite a claim.

Not at all. The question was in regards to the Christian god. All the evidence points to him just existing within the heads of his believers. As such there is absolutely no evidence of him existing as a separate entity, and a lot of evidence in human psychology to support him just being a manufactured creation of our tendency to anthromorphise, just given a more organised form than most.

All known claims about God/s are patently falsifiable.

Actually they’re not. It would be possible to create them. I can think of two possible ways that would qualify right now; making the planet a single sentient entity, or combining several million sentient minds (willingly or through force, it does not matter) into a single distributed entity. Both would qualify for godhood, being entities who effectively cannot die, whilst at the same time each being a few hundreds of thousands of orders of magnitude above the capabilities of a human.