Optimum society

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What is the most optimum society? No, seriously, just answer that question mentally in your head before reading anything else. Finished? Good.

Now, I know what quite a few people would say: “No kind of prejudice, complete equality, equal food, equal pay, free education, no crime, global peace, etc etc etc.”
And, whilst that’s fine, It’s not what I’m grasping at.

The examples listed above are our society’s optimum society, not THE optimum society to benefit humanity as a race the most. Take for example… hard to think of one… Let’s take abortion. People take abortion because they don’t want to be weighed down by a child, but what if that child becomes a great savior of humanity at a time in need (maybe), or a great person to aspire to? Theoretically, that child is thus more important to the human race than its mother which makes it a stupid idea to discard.

Another example would be theft. Let’s say that you have a massive stash of aluminium, and you’re just hording it. You have no plans to use it. Let’s say someone steals it and uses it to make a revolutionary invention. What happens then? Does the fact that they just used that metal for something that just benefits billions of people outweigh the fact that they stole it?

Even more questionable, genetics. People don’t like people fiddling around with genetics, because of empathy and emotion, which halts the study of genetics. “Designer babies” as they’ve dubed it, aren’t something acceptable to our society. But if it was, would it be beneficial?

To reword my question: What is the method of thinking, the list of laws (if any), the traditions and customs, concepts, goverment, actions that will benefit humanity the most?

There are a few basic ways to answer this: An incredibly sexed community would be very happy and “productive” but that just gives more luggage to take care of.
An incredibly logical and scientific way of thinking would be beneficial but emotions would be outcast, and stuff like gut instinct and other things like that would be useless.
And emotional communities would be just like ours as we know it, with all of its problems.
And also, we can’t ignore those failed attempts at optimum society communism, nazism, the multiple examples of elitism. Personally, as a child with only basic understanding on these matters, I see that these concepts could easily work if there was no contrast to them- if there wasn’t something opposed to it.

So, what is the optimum society, given the examples and points raised up there?
You may now discuss.
Oh, and like I just said, I’m a child with only basic understanding on these matters who hasn’t posted on SD yet. Just because my grammar/spelling/whatever is at a better level then most children doesn’t change that, so can you please speak in layman terms, not middle-class words that most chavs don’t know and use?

 
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Originally posted by frozengaia:

What is the perfect society? No, seriously, just answer that question mentally in your head before reading anything else. Finished? Good.

Why can’t I do it verbally out loud?

Also, there isn’t a perfect society.

 
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What is the greatest society possible?
Should have tried that instead. Ah well.

 
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1000 super-being elitists.
Just enough to create novel ideas,progressing human capabilities, and inventions. Eliminates the necessity of millions upon billions of human waste waddling around in the streets of perfection.
Mwahaha…

 
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Perfect society is impossible. What people think are “perfect” are illusion which are crushed by others’ opinions.

 
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We will never have a perfect society, because everyone has different plans and views.

 
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This is a really interesting question. One of the difficulties in addressing it is that it is that different cultures have different core values (or at least different manifestations of core values).

One concept that developed that you might find interesting if you want to think about maximising benefit for the most people is Utilitarianism although an interesting counterpoint to this is Nozick’s idea of a the utility monster – where individuals are expected to sacrifice everything for the marginal benefit of society.

 
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Based on what has been said above, we come full circle to the old chestnut that a perfect society would be a simulated society. Each simulation wrapped around a single individual. Giving each their version of a utopia. As each is a completely self-contained world into itself, it doesn’t matter what happens in each individual’s own utopia; it doesn’t affect anyone else’s.

It is one of many possible advanced technological doomsday scenarios: For where there is no interaction between individual sentients, there is no possibility for meaningful growth. Every individual except the one the simulation is for, must by nature be a simulacrum, an incomplete mind. To make them complete would mean they would have to be placed in their own separate society, or risk their own views becoming at odds with those of the society they exist within.

It would give a perfect society, whatever your definition of perfect happens to be.

 
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@vikaTae

One consideration.
Let’s take that human brain develops via learning i.e. reacting to stimulus from outside reality (including own’s body) as axiom (plz don’t ask me to define “reality” and such, ok?) (1)
Let’s imagine that human brain is placed inside such “perfect” reality which suits that brain perfectly.
Unless some new data to react is introduced, won’t it be a stop of brain development?
BUT if new data is introduced there’s a possibility that it may contradict the “state of perfection”.
So isn’t it a choice between either an honey trap or a possible imperfection?

(1) Some years ago I read about soviet baby asylum where babies with such rare pathological conditions as being deaf-mute-blind at same tame were raised. Don’t remember the exact details except the medical officer working on the project mentioned that such babies until properly trained via some sort of tactile interaction showed no signs of searching acts. I.e. they simply kept lying on surface even if hungry.

 
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Originally posted by NeonJohn:

Perfect society is impossible. What people think are “perfect” are illusion which are crushed by others’ opinions.

That is absolutely true.

 
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Originally posted by AllStarDominatio:

We will never have a perfect society, because everyone has different plans and views.

True.

 
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Originally posted by AllStarDominatio:
Originally posted by NeonJohn:

Perfect society is impossible. What people think are “perfect” are illusion which are crushed by others’ opinions.

That is absolutely true.

True.

 
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Then I remember that this thread actually exists, silly me.

Anyway, I’ll just ignorantly assume that people are dodging the question; Okay, yes, perfection is impossible, but using a single word (Ths"perfect" is far easier for someone as apathetic as I am than “greatest possible” or “optimium”… Well, optimum would be fine… Fine, I’ll just edit the title… There goes that little inconvienience.

And now to an actual debate:

Originally posted by NeonJohn:

Perfect society is impossible. What people think are “perfect” are illusion which are crushed by others’ opinions.

Well, yes, that conflict of opinion has existed since decent civilization began.
However, I’ll be amazed if someone hasn’t heard of some world domination plot story or something similar.
Now, assume one those plots actually succeeded- yay, we have a single goverment controlling the entire world, how do we stop a revolt of sorts?
Making the simple assumption again that we as an entire had an absolute consensus on a matter, what absolute consensuses… Is that a word? What absolute those would be the best way of us to develop the most as a race?

Nazism, Communism, whatever kind of diverse way of thinking you want to use, they all failed because of opposition, correct.
If there was no opposition, if it was allowed to run rampant, which one would be statistically better for us, however?
This is what I’m trying (and not suceeding) to have a stab at. It’s not about reality and the destructions that reality bring, but more about theorycraft. After all, any answer posted here will never actually be tested because simply you can’t, blame life, so we’ll never have a definite answer.

 
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To build a perfect society, everyone has to agree. people want their freedom, drugs, abortion, pride and money, etc. It is impossible to build a perfect society, so thinking about building one is a waste of time. if you consider crime, hate, lack of freedom etc. perfect because they are perfect examples of humanity’s greed, sloth, hate, lust etc., then yes, we have a perfect society.

 
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I think a utopia exists. If you deny the possibility of creating one, you deny the imperfection of previous ones. Therefore you should describe this ‘utopia’ not as the ideal society where no problems exist, but simply as a better one. I myself believe in a globalized society, all people under a different management, which are under a more global hierarchical political authority, based on technocrats. All countries must work with the same valuta. Nobody could deny there has to be concurrence in it, but this concurrence can only exist in a financial aria. Political power comes from the people, as the high jobs stand under the supervision of all the citizens. Every official document will be embedded in a database where everyone can see. Knowledge must be global and free. Also we should work on creating more durable goods. Ex.: the technologie exists to create a washing machine which lasts 40 years. This has multiple advantages: there is going to be a shift from the productionmarket, to a more service-based market where people can put there extra money in; there will be less need for the endless raw-materials on this planet; and welth will spread more widely.

In this global world, there cannot exist rich or poor countries, as the money travels within the same aria. This destroys the concurrence between the different valutas, and eventually the countries. In this society we will make more scientifical progress, and who knows we could explore space to find a common enemy which will unite us xp