Why are people hating on Koreans

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Why should they? They should hate on the South Korean government. Not the North or South korean people. Do you agree?

 
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건배!

 
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I seem to have missed the part where people hated Koreans.

 
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바보! Why should they hate on the South Korean government. When the North Korea people are in poverty and all the money sent to them goes to Kim Jong-Un. I know South Korea have mandatory Military service for a minimum of 2 years, but so do North Korea and a lot of other countries. No one should hate on Korea or the people, if anything the should be concerned for the North Korean people being under dictator rule and starving. You shouldn’t hate the country, hate the leader.
한국 화이팅!

 
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Who hates Koreans? How do they hate Koreans?

 
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Not really, although a little.
South Korea should have called off the military drills and told the USA to stop being jackasses in the region for the most part.

The North and the Souths citizens aren’t much different whatsoever in terms of culture, it’s not like China vs Japan, it’s more like England vs The USA, there’s slight differences, and some different political/religious things, but nothing too great as far as I know.

Honestly, no, I don’t think people should be hating South Korea as much as the USA though.
As always, the USA is taking advantage of them getting a nuke and is loading in troops to that area, most likely in a plan to attack someone in the region or at the very least block a country, such as china, from their oil fields or their (rightfully) claimed islands, and not the disputed ones.
Not to mention with the shift of troops, we’re making North Korea and South Korea divide even more and cause North Korea to become more volatile, and of course don’t forget the sanctions we’re trying to push on them, as we do for all our enemies, see Iran and Cuba as recent and active examples, add in the middle east for destroyed infrastructure if you want to accept that too, if not, you still have Iran and Cuba as active examples.

As a result of this, people get the delusion that North Korea has poverty everywhere and it’s a horrible 3rd world country.
Which, no, it isn’t completely as so.
It is still though, but why is that?

Because of the Government, sure a little.
Because of the resources and positioning? A little, but not entirely, they may need to import food still, but they have plenty of “precious” resources that China is mining for their self just so that North Korea is “safe” from others.
Because of others? Yes, that’s a big factor, not the whole story, but a big part. With the sanctions and constant dislike of North Korea, They can’t sell their goods or buy anything that easily, if at all.
And lets not forget, because of population? No, not a little bit at all, North Korea has plenty of people, but not too many to survive.

So yes, you see poverty and bad infrastructure and all these 3rd world like things, so you stop there and you don’t look why it is like that, fine.
If you don’t believe me, you can even go look at Google-earth and see how luscious their land is for many valuable things, things that they could trade for some things they may lack, such as food or factory equipment to make things or mine things more efficiently.
Have you ever seen something “made in North Korea” or even “Made in Korea” for that fact? Almost never made in Korea, honestly I’ve never seen anything that says that, and certainly not made in North Korea.


So to wrap it up, and keep it basic, yes and no.
South Korea is part of the problem, but the USA is more of the problem.

I support North Korea and respect their “dynasty” (If that’s what you’d like to call it), they are trying to find a way out the only way they can think of, Nuclear progression.
They’ll most likely drop China if all goes well and take their land back for their self, and if China invades 5million minimum will die in Shanghai, Beijing, or maybe Hong Kong.

I may not agree on how they threaten others, or a few things they do there, but in general they’re alright in my book.
강한 북한!


4minute EDIT: I forgot to add in how disgusting America is for provoking North Korea and purposely hyping their “evilness” because the war in the middle east is slowly down, aside from Israel and Iran, and of course the new 9-11 coming from Syria, but hey, they need something to do with all those worthless poor bastards seeing as they can’t just go home seeing as a fair amount of them have no where to go and would be homeless/“leeches”, not to mention unemployment would skyrocket and there would be all kinds of fucks up in the economy, housing, and of course here comes that word again, infrastructure.

 
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The North and the Souths citizens aren’t much different whatsoever in terms of culture, it’s not like China vs Japan, it’s more like England vs The USA, there’s slight differences, and some different political/religious things, but nothing too great as far as I know.

Speaking as a Brit, I think you’re deluding yourself here. In almost every way, I feel closer to other European nations than I do to America, especially its more conservative elements. This despite being opposed to much of what the EU stands for. I rather suspect I could quite enjoy having a beer or three with someone like jhco, but culturally we are a million miles apart.

I don’t understand what the South Koreans are supposed to have done to deserve the hatred of the world. Most of the problems in North Korea are of their own making, but we all guilty to some degree. For years the North found that all their preposterous bullshit rhetoric actually worked, that they could squeeze concessions out of us by talking aggressively. For the moment it has stopped working, and they seem to be unsure about what to do next. Couple that with the presence of an inexperienced leader in Kim Jong-un, and I actually find the situation there to be quite worrying.

As I’ve said a dozen times before, it’s sometimes necessary to have a nice cosy chat with people you despise in order to make any progress. With both sides ramping up the rhetoric, any sort of common understanding or compromise is becoming increasingly unlikely.

It’s been happening too often of late, but once again we have an OP making a bald and completely unsubstantiated claim, with no attempt at elaboration. I think it’s about time Cowpower came back and explained just why he thinks I should hate the government of South Korea.

 
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This is it.

 
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Originally posted by Draconavin:

Otters be winning the serious debate war, yo.

Off-topicers? If so, yes.

 
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I don’t see the hate toward South Korea. However, North Korea has earned the scorn of the world. How, for instance, are Americans supposed to love NK when they have threatened to send a nuke our way?

 
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Speaking as a Brit, I think you’re deluding yourself here. In almost every way, I feel closer to other European nations than I do to America, especially its more conservative elements. This despite being opposed to much of what the EU stands for. I rather suspect I could quite enjoy having a beer or three with someone like jhco, but culturally we are a million miles apart.

I don’t understand what the South Koreans are supposed to have done to deserve the hatred of the world. Most of the problems in North Korea are of their own making, but we all guilty to some degree. For years the North found that all their preposterous bullshit rhetoric actually worked, that they could squeeze concessions out of us by talking aggressively. For the moment it has stopped working, and they seem to be unsure about what to do next. Couple that with the presence of an inexperienced leader in Kim Jong-un, and I actually find the situation there to be quite worrying.

As I’ve said a dozen times before, it’s sometimes necessary to have a nice cosy chat with people you despise in order to make any progress. With both sides ramping up the rhetoric, any sort of common understanding or compromise is becoming increasingly unlikely.

It’s been happening too often of late, but once again we have an OP making a bald and completely unsubstantiated claim, with no attempt at elaboration. I think it’s about time Cowpower came back and explained just why he thinks I should hate the government of South Korea.

He’s correct to say the culture has a lot of similarities, but it goes too far to say they’re almost identical. In this case I can actually prove it, or at least source it (I’m not sure if that’s a free version or not). Author is a prof at one of korea’s universities who’s been to north korea several times for research, but lives in the south. So, not a nut.

I took this book with me when I went off to teach in Korea. Despite the fact that it was written about North Korean culture, it was surprisingly eye-opening about southern culture as well. Both cultures are extremely xenophobic – while I was in the south I saw an ‘expose’ on one of their major news stations about how white guys are corrupting the korean gene and cultural pool by sexing korean girls. Again, that wasn’t a fringe report, that was coming from the NBC equivalent. Blacks are reviled over there; that’s not uncommon in Asia as i understand it, but it’s pretty disgusting to be walking through a hallway in your middle school and see cartoonish posters of black-faced kids raping korean girls, as part of a lesson on ‘keep your hands to yourself’.

The ‘cleanest race’ aspect refers to the belief among koreans that they are literally and metaphorically purer than foreigners. I don’t know how many times I was accused of being unwashed by students and teachers alike, and I’m a pretty clean guy! Dirty and trashy are both major insults in korea, say around the same intensity as calling someone an asshole, only tied to cultural racial moeurs, like an N-Bomb (funnily enough, korea has an appalling waste disposal system; communities tend to just leave all their shit in an open-air pile like a miniaturized garbage dump).

Also there’s the reunification thing. Whenever I hear that word I think of Romulans and Vulcans for some reason. The south koreans excuse every kind of nastiness from north korea on a sort of assumed pretext that if they keep being nice and overlooking their sunk ships and kidnapped citizens, NK will eventually come around and play nice. Hence why they are also not worried about missile tests and the like. We laugh about them because of how absurd the Kim Jong dynasty is. They laugh about it because they just can’t wrap their brains around the idea that NK would ever attack so brazenly…and yet they don’t think in terms of ‘oh we have the US base in Jeju and all this support, they wouldn’t dare…’ No. It’s as though they believe NK wants reunification as much as they do, and hey, maybe they do, but not enough to keep from attacking them.

Short version is the south koreans as far as I could tell were not in any way what we would call ‘critical thinkers’. They also hide a lot of their nastiness under the cover of their juvenile pop culture (Gangnam style), but it’s definitely there and it seems strongly reminiscient of NK…the same kinds of things that baffle us about NK, a ‘what could they be thinking?’ response, we’d find in SK too if we peeled back the superficial gloss of their export culture.

 
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Zach,

The North and the Souths citizens aren’t much different whatsoever in terms of culture,

What? I mean, like, Whaaaaaat? I emphatically disagree with that. North Korea is completely devoid of anything but the most superficial aping of contemporary culture. It is hopelessly behind in every conceivable strata of our modern achievements. Further, it’s success in the banal emulation of previous models is compromised by the fictions surrounding them, they have no understanding of the mass of history around them and have therefor no means of engaging such in cultural dialogue. Instead, there they are locked into their tiny community chasing after the shadows of things they do no understand – novel to spectate, but limited in breadth. They are culturally naive like few other societies, and terminally misinformed perhaps more then any other.

As a result of this, people get the delusion that North Korea has poverty everywhere and it’s a horrible 3rd world country.

No, no it really is. They are incapable of feeding themselves, time and time again. It’s poverty is so absolute it is fatal, even while being propped up by foreign countries. It has little to do with US Sanctions and far more with the problems of their clumsy, lethally inept, engagement of basic economics and militarism.

Have you ever seen something “made in North Korea” or even “Made in Korea” for that fact? Almost never made in Korea, honestly I’ve never seen anything that says that, and certainly not made in North Korea.

That is because North Korea has very little idea how to make things. Anti Intellectual rhetoric has left them with a rather large serf class with no general education whatsoever, and entirely dependent on rote tasks. What little they produce are inferior, clumsy copies of foreign engineering. Outside of raw materials and labour they have virtually nothing to offer as a consequence of their policies.

I get that your sticking up for the underdog is shocking and rebellious. But do some digging and you’ll find a failed nation incapable of feeding itself, the national equivalent of the self righteous, starving communist hippy bum on the street side begging for change when not belligerently thrashing about.

Beau,

I feel closer to other European nations than I do to America,

Gasp! From a jazz fan? Monster. As a matter of clarification, are we talking “The US” or, “The North America’s.” Us Canadians are sometimes confused if we count as them or not. We try to play up both sides, depending who we’re talking to.

 
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@Jantonaitis.

It could be argued that Asians(East and South) are actually far more racist, and xenophobic than whites. Especially with all the social studies graduate imposing white guilt on a large populace of the European descended people. We’ll leave the other races out for arguments sake. English being predominantly the unifying language of modern Europeans and post-colonial nations has allowed for us to look at our similarities far more easily.

Although we have this silly, us vs them, mentality in political camps. In Asia, small variances in dialect, or shifts in language tend to segregate communities more and more. In most of those countries and regions we have people hard-lining with their traditions, and finding even the minute variance or deviation from that belief system, egregious. So they take up the flag of ignorance, and anger against those that are not like them, and for the woes of their life they say let’s blame the white man—not unlike the blacks. He was smart enough to build colonies around the world through conquest and diplomacy, but they were still stuck in their old traditions, and allowed themelves to be divided and conquered.

At least for Ghandi—despite his morally questionable behavior—he was able to bring some form of unity to a disparate India, which always had various factions fighting for full conquest of the nations. Those in India were racist to those of different religions, dialects, class structures,and even skin tone. In China, Japan ,Malaysia,etc. this type of xenophobic behavior is no different. One thing positive about colonialism was the introduction of an improved structured class system with strict rules, and a focus on getting things done,as well as spreading education—not only to the elite—and allowing for more minds the possibility to be of use to society.

The laissez-faire teaching model seems a little silly with modern liberal teachers, nowadays, don’t you think? They need to stop being such pansies, and instill a little bit of fighting spirit into these kids. Make them develop resilience. Stop with the excessive reward system, and work on their punishment systems to increase their focus. They might get hurt, but at least they won’t give up so damn easily when times are tough, and they learn to cope with tough times. Especially since the primary and secondary education system does nothing of the sort to build resilience for post-secondary education. You probably have to find some other form of elective training in this field—this is usually not pushed more in school—by joining an intensive martial arts program or sports of some sort, for example. Even some coaching in these matters would probably help. I digressed, a little, but just wanted to say my piece.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I don’t see the hate toward South Korea. However, North Korea has earned the scorn of the world. How, for instance, are Americans supposed to love NK when they have threatened to send a nuke our way?

ignorant. the people in North Korea know nothing about the world, because they’re kept in isolation from it. nobody in North Korea threatened to send a nuke anywhere. well, almost nobody.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

ignorant. the people in North Korea know nothing about the world, because they’re kept in isolation from it. nobody in North Korea threatened to send a nuke anywhere. well, almost nobody.

Nobody of any actual importance, anyway.

 
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Yes, which is an important thing to remember. Truly, as much as I despise the North Korean government, and hold some distant image of the North Korean people responsible for backing the wrong horse, the people there here and now are more so the victims of the regime then any threatened nation. They really have no agency, no moral culpability, they’re for the most part to be pitied.

 
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On the one side it’s a great experiment. A wonderful place for research and analysis to see what a democracy, and dictatorship can do side by side, over time. They’re just people right? What rights are we trying to impose on them. Have you ever thought that not having to think too much, or work too much, to be given a preset destiny may not be all that bad? Maybe they are more happy than we will ever know. They don’t have to challenge their simple ideologies, and can live their simple peaceful lives with relatively few stressors. Just accept their leader to keep their country stable while the government does all the heavy-lifting for them while they can live with their families happily—communism, yay happiness :P.

All that they need is training and focus on a large scale to catch up with the rest of the world, but they are essentially living in what we would consider the 60s in America. It all feels reminiscent of the Cold War Era because they are caught in a time loop where South Korea—although South Korea was allowed to advance thanks to U.S. aid—representing the ideal of the U.S.A, and North Korea representing the ideals of old dictatorial communist Russia—they are stuck in that time period.

If happiness is defined with a life without pain and suffering, then the North Korean people may not be suffering as we assume from our media bias. A lot of poor people actually are quite happy with their lives. They don’t know any better, but they enjoy life with whatever they know. We allowed the “social justice warriors” distort the reality because their purposeless lives required purpose, and they really had very little to offer, so they took on these agendas, but caused more harm to public perception than good—there needs to be more balance in these discussions instead of extremities, all the time.

 
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I don’t disagree that there is an anti NK media bias. Sure, of course there is. But I feel the suggestion that we have gone so far as to invent NK suffering is a little absurd. I don’t have television, I don’t buy newspapers, I don’t follow major media news outlets. I am not a consumer of major media news. There is no shortage of raw first hand footage in North Korea. Missionaries, Rescue Agencies, all sorts of group are forever imbedding and smuggling people and information.

I’m something of an absolutist, I have no qualms about the morality of imposing rights on foreign cultures. I am pretty self justified. So the idea that they may not want to be ‘rescued’, doesn’t really shake me. But to me the real issue is not merely State Control, but the failure of that State while in control. Could a nice little thought washed mob of happy guileless farm hands toil endlessly away in carefully ordered Eden? Sure. But I think North Korea is a long way away from that. One can propagandize suffering by suggesting agency. “Sure you’re starving, but it’s because the USA is mean.” But alleviating man’s suffering altogether through loyalty alone? That would be quite the feat.

 
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Personally, this is just one viewpoint, mind you, I don’t think we need to remove suffering from the human condition. What we need is better self-control, and coping mechanisms when that suffering arrives. It can also indicate that something is wrong, something is challenging, and that something requires motivation to push through to other side. Of course when trying to battle through suffering, one can easily fall to physical handicaps that may become irreversible until modern science catches up, but it doesn’t mean we need to eliminate the feelings surrounding suffering. I for one, think suffering is an essential motivator to push humans towards progress instead of reaching a dystopia where people have the illusion of pure happiness, and comfort, but haven’t accomplished that much more than our predecessors. Human ingenuity require suffering. Suffering in itself pushes us to invent and advance while gaining greater control of the natural world to either create or destroy—if we choose to destroy, we should never forget not to lose the knowledge and wisdom that we gained from creation; that would be a travesty.

 
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Maybe they are more happy than we will ever know.

This. They aren’t like other oppressed peoples. Yes, they are oppressed, but they’ve been brainwashed into the dear leader mentality. They aren’t comparable to iranians or egyptians, where the populace is fairly rational and/or attempting to resist their government in some way. I’d argue most NKers would tell you without coercion that they’re happy to be part of something greater than themselves.

Now, there are definitely dissidents who get smuggled out, and they’ve got horror stories about living there. And doubtless that’s on the rise largely because of the internet – it’s become a lot easier for them to watch SK movies and stuff…they’ve been told pretty much since day 1 that SK was poor and starving in comparison, but that’s increasingly harder for the regime to justify.

They don’t have to challenge their simple ideologies, and can live their simple peaceful lives with relatively few stressors. Just accept their leader to keep their country stable while the government does all the heavy-lifting for them while they can live with their families happily—*communism, yay happiness :P.*

Not this. Number one, they aren’t communists. They never were. They’ve used communism as a shield to get benefits from actual communist countries like USSR and China, much the same way countries like Egypt and Afghanistan use(d) the pretence of Islamic government to get perks and recognition. The state media says it’s communist, but the government doesn’t take care of them in any way we’d connect to communist social programming…being a farmer in NK is several magnitudes worse than being a farmer in China, mainly because they have to do everything themselves, and the govt takes what they make for themselves. atm they have even less cause to claim communism than China…and they also have little need for it anymore. The famine in NK started right after Russia withdrew support for them prior to dismantling their own communist system. But they’ve moved past that now, added it to their heroic myth complex as a great era for their country, and as much as they’d like more handouts, they can get it from SK with enough threats (they don’t beg for anything). As for China, it doesn’t matter if they’re communist because they’d support NK anyway, for the same reason Iran supports Hezbollah – because they’re a destabilizing force on other countries, but can’t do enough damage (ie nukes) to backfire on them.

Finally,

It could be argued that Asians(East and South) are actually far more racist, and xenophobic than whites. Especially with all the social studies graduate imposing white guilt on a large populace of the European descended people.

So they take up the flag of ignorance, and anger against those that are not like them, and for the woes of their life they say let’s blame the white man—not unlike the blacks.

The laissez-faire teaching model seems a little silly with modern liberal teachers, nowadays, don’t you think? They need to stop being such pansies, and instill a little bit of fighting spirit into these kids.

We allowed the “social justice warriors” distort the reality because their purposeless lives required purpose, and they really had very little to offer, so they took on these agendas, but caused more harm to public perception than good—there needs to be more balance in these discussions instead of extremities, all the time.

As a liberal arts / social sciences graduate who dabbles in social justice, it would be nice to see you explain your beef with us, rather than burying it in conservative talking points.

 
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Sorry, Jhco rubbed off on me—just kidding, jhco. Just trying to tackle the issue from different perspectives. :) Sorry if I come off a bit harsh, not my intention, really.

 
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Eh, it sounds less like jhco and more like you’ve been reading Niall Ferguson’s Empire / Bloom’s Closing of the American Mind, if anything. Not bad books, just curious to see that perspective on a fairly unrelated topic.

 
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Eh, I got it from somewhere. Haven’t read those books, but it could be that I watch too much of The Agenda with Steve Paikan. You know the one on TVO? The publicly funded Ontarian channel. It’s probably an amalgamation of some of the ideas that some of the presenters held, as well as my own personal formal education.
I do watch a ton of British Documentaries, so you might have me there. On Allan Bloom, I am a little unfamiliar, but if I find the time, then I will acquaint myself with his work. :)