Holocaust denial

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How do you feel about people denying the holocaust as a historical event, or those who claim that the numbers were exaggerated? In addition, do you feel that those groups that were victims to the holocaust should be given special privilege or simply looked upon with equal rights?

 
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I think trying to deny the Holocaust is a futile effort. Did Eisenhower (I believe that’s who it was) request many, many photos/videos taken knowing in the future people would try to deny it?

As for the privileges; I believe they should just go the people still alive from the tragedy, possibly only get said privileges in Germany, for a bit of irony? Though I am glad that it’s illegal to allow anybody from the Nazi party take political power.

 
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You werent there, so the only way you could know is from someone else telling you.

Someone telling you something doesnt automatically make it a fact.

The tens of thousands of holocaust survivors and witnesses are all part of a JEWISH CONSPIRACY!!

Obviously tens of thousands of people can be involved in a conspiracy with no leaks.

discuss how flawless my logic is.

 
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Originally posted by gluCROWse:

Obviously tens of thousands of people can be involved in a conspiracy with no leaks.

Solopsism.

Only the person who has unmasked the conspiracy, and a handful of other like-minded people are real. The rest of us are apparently just poppets inserted into the make-believe world to fill up space. The conspiracy is thus evidence of demonic tampering within the world shared by a small number of real people, as it is easy to make a poppet think whatever a real person wishes it to think.

 
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Didn’t we just do this? Well, going again.

How do you feel about people denying the holocaust as a historical event, or those who claim that the numbers were exaggerated? In addition, do you feel that those groups that were victims to the holocaust should be given special privilege or simply looked upon with equal rights?

I feel inquiries into the exaggeration (whether quantitative or emotional) of the holocaust and the consequences thereof are fair. I don’t see the merit in using the holocaust to award special privileges to anyone.

Though I am glad that it’s illegal to allow anybody from the Nazi party take political power.

I’m not pleased with the level of criminalization of nazi ‘associations’ in Germany. Whether it be federal raids on punker shops for producing /anti/ nazi badges, or banning and censoring related culture output like say Hanzel Und Gretyl. Nor is the idea of certain political expression being expressly prohibited a particularly comfortable notion to me. Better irrelevant then outlawed.

 
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I definitely think there is undeniable evidence that the holocaust did happen, but special privileges to holocaust victims? bro jews already have too many special privileges; I think they should simply be treated equally like the rest of us are for the most part (inb4racism).

 
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I for one do not believe in this far fectched theory. This is just like saying slavery didnt happen. However it is good and healthy for people to question their goverment to a point if we did not we would be in a dictatorship. Nor would america (even though its the most hated country outside of the middle east) been formed in the first place. However as i said in the first place the holocast did happen and to say it didnt is a complete lie.

 
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I believe people who think this are atheists. I don’t mean this as an insult, but I mean this as in they argue with any subject to determine whether it is true or false. Atheists are in denial of God and Jesus, believing they don’t, never have, and never will exist because “there is no proof” of it. I believe people believe this just because there isn’t actual proof that seven million people were killed by one man. I honestly think the number of deaths is exaggerated, but I completely believe that this event did most certainly occur.

 
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RationalWiki has, as always, a pretty good article on this topic.

Kellathor can accurately use the English language, so I’ll go with Poe’s Law on that one…

 
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Originally posted by Kellathor:

I believe people who think this are atheists.

Hopefully this is just an English flub, as I hope you don’t honestly think all atheists deny the holocaust or vice versa.

I don’t mean this as an insult, but I mean this as in they argue with any subject to determine whether it is true or false.

That’s not a thing with atheism, that’s something for people who tend to think critically, but even then that’s not completely true as there are things that have already been proven or disproved, or are thoroughly in the process of being proven or disproved.

Atheists are in denial of God and Jesus, believing they don’t, never have, and never will exist because “there is no proof” of it.

You’re saying that like there’s overwhelming proof that God (the Christian God, specifically) and the Bible are real and accurate and atheists are the ones ignoring all of that because reasons. Actually, you even put “there is no proof” is sarcastic quotes, which seems like you have something for the validity of the Christian religion, and I personally would love to hear whatever it might be.

Also, you could argue that everyone is atheistic in some way to at least one religion, since I don’t think there are many Christians out there believing Hinduism or Greek mythology is as true as their religion. Actually, I’m starting to think this might be just another case of someone not quite understanding what atheism entirely is.

As a side, you said that Atheists believe that God/Jesus will never exist, so how could God/Jesus start existing if it was clearly defined that they had to have been existing sometime in the past?

I believe people believe this just because there isn’t actual proof that seven million people were killed by one man.

Well, obviously there isn’t proof of that because Hitler (I assume that’s the man you’re talking about) didn’t personally kill everyone who died in the Holocaust.

I honestly think the number of deaths is exaggerated, but I completely believe that this event did most certainly occur.

Okay, why do you think the numbers are exaggerated?

 
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Originally posted by Kellathor:

I believe people who think this are atheists. I don’t mean this as an insult, but I mean this as in they argue with any subject to determine whether it is true or false. Atheists are in denial of God and Jesus, believing they don’t, never have, and never will exist because “there is no proof” of it. I believe people believe this just because there isn’t actual proof that seven million people were killed by one man. I honestly think the number of deaths is exaggerated, but I completely believe that this event did most certainly occur.

I’m an atheist and I know the holocaust happened. In fact I think the whole connecting atheism to holocaust denial is completely ridiculous. Just like it would be ignorant to say all Christians have the same values as the Westboro Baptist Church.

There should be no special privileges and unless it is something directly connected to the holocaust, like a holocaust remembrance day (if there is one, idk) would be fine.

 
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I believe people who think this are atheists.

Incorrect. People who think this are dipshits.

 
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No one can deny 11 million people were killed during the holocaust. It’s like saying Joseph Stallin didn’t kill over 20 million people or that Japan didn’t kill 300,000 people in the Nanking Massacre. Both countries have admitted that this happened. Germany need to respect the 11 million people they murdered and accept what they did during the holocaust.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:
I believe people who think this are atheists.

Incorrect. People who think this are dipshits.

Couldn’t you quite easily say the same about people who think atheists must deny the holocaust (or any disaster they did not directly witness)?

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Kellathor:

I believe people who think this are atheists.

Hopefully this is just an English flub, as I hope you don’t honestly think all atheists deny the holocaust or vice versa.

I wasn’t trying to stereotype atheists, I was just stating my opinion. Atheists seem to argue with lots of things. Oh wait, that is stereotyping…my apologies.

 
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I don’t identify myself as any religion. I used to believe I was a christian, but being a christian means you disagree with gay marriage, gay equality, etc.

 
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Originally posted by Kellathor:
Originally posted by NinjaMaster131:

Just like it would be ignorant to say all Christians have the same values as the Westboro Baptist Church.

I don’t identify myself as any religion. I used to believe I was a christian, but being a christian means you disagree with gay marriage, gay equality, etc.

Apparently Kellathor really believes that all christians do have the exact same values as the Westboro baptist church, Ninja.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by Kellathor:
Originally posted by NinjaMaster131:

Just like it would be ignorant to say all Christians have the same values as the Westboro Baptist Church.

I don’t identify myself as any religion. I used to believe I was a christian, but being a christian means you disagree with gay marriage, gay equality, etc.

Apparently Kellathor really believes that all christians do have the exact same values as the Westboro baptist church, Ninja.

The bible states “If a man lay with another man, he shall be stoned.” (Leviticus 20:13) Being christian means you don’t support gay marriage. If you support gay marriage, you’re not christian.

 
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Originally posted by Kellathor:
Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by Kellathor:
Originally posted by NinjaMaster131:

Just like it would be ignorant to say all Christians have the same values as the Westboro Baptist Church.

I don’t identify myself as any religion. I used to believe I was a christian, but being a christian means you disagree with gay marriage, gay equality, etc.

Apparently Kellathor really believes that all christians do have the exact same values as the Westboro baptist church, Ninja.

The bible states “If a man lay with another man, he shall be stoned.” (Leviticus 20:13) Being christian means you don’t support gay marriage. If you support gay marriage, you’re not christian.

Of course you can be Christian and support Gay marriage. Many Christians can and do justify this by saying when Jesus died and rose again that Jesus took the burden of our sins so animal sacrifices and other bizarre Old Testament laws were no longer necessary. Also, Jesus, who the religion is based upon, never mentions anything about homosexuality.

Not to mention you don’t even have to support Gay marriage, you can just tolerate other people, live and let live.

Westboro Baptist church on the other hand actively protests Gays/tell them they’re going to hell/use hate to preach etc.

 
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Can we not derail the thread so quickly?

 
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Originally posted by satinfreak:

No one can deny 11 million people were killed during the holocaust. It’s like saying Joseph Stallin didn’t kill over 20 million people or that Japan didn’t kill 300,000 people in the Nanking Massacre. Both countries have admitted that this happened. Germany need to respect the 11 million people they murdered and accept what they did during the holocaust.

The Japanese are not all that keen about discussing their war-time atrocities. Or even agreeing that they were atrocities rather than the usual business of warfare. Mind you, it’s a gov’t position, I’ve never met an actual japanese who thought like that.

As Ung already pointed out the Germans are way ahead of us when it comes to respecting their past. I remember Jon Stewart once said that in most countries people will shake their heads and lament that their current government is the worst one they’ve ever had…this does not happen in Germany.

The Turks still deny the Armenian genocide. Israelis are still pretty sketchy about the whole ethnic cleansing job they pulled off in the 50s. So it’s not uncommon and it’s not exceptional to the holocaust. The thing is that whereas Ung thinks these people have a totally valid right to express their view, you gotta look at their motivations for promoting it. It’s definitely not in the interest of academic critique, and it’s not ‘because we’re atheists and we argue stuff’ like kellathor idiotically said. The Japs who argue Nanking was no biggie and they shouldn’t have to spit on their ancestors are, by and large, ultra-nationalists still caught up in the Imperial Shogunate state-myth stuff. Similarly with the Turks and the Israelis (though they’re the best of the lot). The holocaust deniers are either neo-nazis or anti-semites. Or both. Either way I see no reason to allow their dangerous claptrap public expression.

As for the OP’s other question…there are very very few holocaust survivors left. There was never a lot to begin with. Which is why for some time now the reparations have gone to the victim’s families or to various organizations and Israel. I’ll plug Finkelstein’s book about this again – The Holocaust Industries, great history. But he makes it very clear that it’s one thing to criticize how people use the holocaust, including exaggerating aspects to draw more sympathy, but it’s quite another thing to criticize the idea of the holocaust. Therein lies Holocaust Denial.

 
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Originally posted by Kellathor:

The bible states “If a man lay with another man, he shall be stoned.” (Leviticus 20:13) Being christian means you don’t support gay marriage. If you support gay marriage, you’re not christian.

The Bible also says shaving is a sin and you can sell your daughter to slavery, there’s a reason most Christians are in some way selective in what they take from the Bible.

 
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Couldn’t you quite easily say the same about people who think atheists must deny the holocaust (or any disaster they did not directly witness)?

Indeed you could.

 
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The Jews deserve their conspiracies when they named the thing “the Holocaust”, instead of “WW2 Jewish Genocide”, similar to how every other genocide was named.


As the thread is already quit derailed, let me say this. When you speak about the WW2 Jewish Genocide, most people will say “damn Hitler”, “damn the Nazis” or something like that. However, when you talk about the Red Army’s atrocities, most people are at a loss. Come on, winning a war does not mean you can justify the mass rapes, labor camps and massacres. Perhaps people forgot about that because USSR was an atrocious country, but just look at the horrible things done on the lost Germans… the horror can only be described as karmic retribution.

 
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Denying the holocaust deseveres a strong penalty imo.