Holocaust denial page 3

74 posts

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Actually I thought it was teh hobo’s thread. Sorry for the mixup, dex.

 
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Listen rather than derailing this thread any father im going to be the mature one and make a new one about the whole “bible as a historal document thing”.Now can we please discuss the issue that this thread stated.

 
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The Holocaust is part of a historical War, WW2. Therefore, the Holocaust IS a historical event, and is one of the most interesting events to read. I think the amount of Jews cleansed in the Holocaust is very low. There was an estimated 20 million Jews in the European area. 6 million were killed. what? Hitler was a crazy little fuck, and he only cleansed a 4th? I just find that odd

 
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I think your language is slightly offensive, niceman.
I haven’t been active here lately, so pinning down who you are is a little tough.

But referring to the murder of 6 million people as “cleansing” is, frankly, a bit disgusting.
I’m all for a dispassionate discussion, but I don’t think your word choice is very well thought out.

Just a thought.

 
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I thought it referred to ‘ethnic cleansing’ which is basically a synonym for genocide.

That said he’s an idiot so who can say.

 
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He can learn the facts though, right?
I guess you all feel too self-important, or wanting to boost your own ego to care.
He only knows as much as he learns in school or what he finds online: like all of us at some point, but we get older, and learn things on our own.
Be they scholarly or the fluffy humanities; oh, look, I can do that too.

The tone of this forum: will it ever change?

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

That said he’s an idiot so who can say.

You really should control yourself more. You didn’t need to add that last part.
How are we ever going to get more users in this forum?
There’s far too few people here—who keep running the same arguments.
They may not all be great, but the low activity is really killing SD.
A few guys being at each others throats, doesn’t help either.

 
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Originally posted by Draconavin:

He can learn the facts though, right?

That’s up to him to show the rest of us that he is prepared to do that. So far, I cannot see any evidence of him doing little more than talking about things which he only has the vaguest of ideas about, rather than being confident of his facts when he posts.

This is why most of us have specialist areas. Core areas which we have heavily researched and tend to drift back to. They’re bulwarks of knowlede that we can challenge all-comers from, because we know what we are talking about when we talk in our specialist area and any knowledge area related to that. It becomes murkier the further out you go.

Janton, Ung, BSG, Softest, Karma, Twilight, myself; we all have sizable banks of knowledge to draw upon because we’ve studied and know what we’re talking about in a core area and many others that we have researched thoroughly.

If you wish to be taken seriously, research. Know what you’re talking about. It is embarassing if a five-minute google search can defeat someone’s core argument. It just proves they were running their mouth before engaging their brain. If they wish to do that, go to OT.

 
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You don’t remember everything. Don’t be disingenuous.
A degree means that you have performed well on tests,and have read the books and documents required, critically.
It doesn’t make you any more important or special because you have a degree or not.
Wherever niceman goes in post secondary or if he works to make it into post secondary education is when his knowledge will improve, but just because he is young and inexperienced does not mean we can’t show him a better path.
If you don’t want to be constructive, you can always not post.
We aren’t solving the worlds problems here; just having, at times,an interesting discussion.
Doesn’t mean he can’t work on reliable sources to improve the discussion.

All I’m advocating for is a little more tolerance to accept new users.
Or else you guys just won’t learn anything in the end, and go as far as you think your specializations will take you.

 
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We remember more than we have forgotten. What have degrees got to do with it? They’re near worthless. Just prove you’re willing to research in your target field, and you know the bare bones basics.

The 13-15 year olds who come here won’t have degrees. Doesn’t stop them researching, working hard to learn and try to understand. In many cases they won’t have the practical know-how to put with it, which prevents them from becoming true subject matter experts, but that’s not what SD’s looking for anyway.

If they cannot be bothered to put the hours in to research the topic they’re arguing before they argue it, it WILL show, and they WILL be torn apart by others in here who actually know what they are talking about, and don’t have to run to google for every little thing.

 
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You really should control yourself more. You didn’t need to add that last part.

I didn’t NEED to, no. But I thought i’d throw softest a bone, particularly since I agreed with him that the poster was an idiot, regardless of those particular choice of words.

You don’t remember everything. Don’t be disingenuous.
A degree means that you have performed well on tests,and have read the books and documents required, critically.
It doesn’t make you any more important or special because you have a degree or not.

You realize you’re not fooling me, right? You don’t have a degree. That’s why you hate people with education – you have none other than a HS diploma, so you get pissy when those of us show you up for being ignorant. Well, wikipedia is your friend. If you really wanted to be an expert in something – or many things – it wouldnt be that difficult. But instead you bitch and moan about how much you think education is worthless, and meanwhile yammer about totally inconsequential crap that you intend to be taken as ‘wisdom’…except that ‘wisdom’ does NOT mean empty platitudes. I don’t care how resentful you are – I won’t change my attitude because some dumbass has an axe to grind with smart people.

And just so you know: It’s not like we all gang up people. Vika, karma, ung, Twilight and I all disagree on many many things, and i’d add several other users to that list as well. But of all the ones I can think of, one thing is clear: we respect intelligence. We don’t respect idiocy. Vika has it exactly right – I can think of plenty of things higher ed does shitty, but in your case? It’s OBVIOUS that you’re jealous of those who do have one so you invest all your emotions into hating on those who do. There’s a word for that: pathetic. I’m not saying you need a degree to talk, I’M saying, STFU with all the bitching and inferiority you have over it. it’s relevant only because YOU make it so.

All I’m advocating for is a little more tolerance to accept new users.

If you say ‘derp’ in response to a post you don’t deserve a decent reply. In your case, well…All your posts add up to ‘derp’ so I really can’t be bothered to show respect to them either.

 
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@ vika
How do you know what SD wants? Or is this what you want?
I respect you, and all—even when you get a little rowdy—but how do you know everyone feels this way.
I haven’t heard everyone come to consensus on this. Maybe others are a little more open to out there beliefs?
If you think SD is a place of facts. It is not.

@jan
smirks
You don’t know the number of universities I have been to.
Why would you? Every assumption you make: makes you look like an ass.
I guess I won’t be able to prod you to being civil, so I will just have to count my losses on you.
Keep up your straw mans. You are great at that, at least.
Sad.
And don’t throw everyone into your boat because they are all different from you.
Unless, you have many alts on SD?

 
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How do you know what SD wants? Or is this what you want?
I respect you, and all—even when you get a little rowdy—but how do you know everyone feels this way.
I haven’t heard everyone come to consensus on this. Maybe others are a little more open to out there beliefs?
If you think SD is a place of facts. It is not.

I think vika is spot on. Pretty much no one here wants to listen to people that don’t have a bloody clue what they’re talking about. So far, only you are defending people who are openly ignorant and don’t really care. It is a place for opinion, but there should be some facts behind those opinions unless it’s a truly theoretical/philosophical discussion.

 
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Originally posted by Draconavin:

@ vika
How do you know what SD wants? Or is this what you want?

SD is a serious discussion forum. You cannot have serious discussions unless your discussions are comprised primarilly of people who know what they are talking about.

I respect you, and all—even when you get a little rowdy—but how do you know everyone feels this way.

The trolls and the lazy do not. Intelligent individuals by and large will feel the same way I do, because there is no fun, no benefit in continually beating the ignorant over the bonce bone with your knowledge. We like to have the bounds of our knowledge stretched and tested – and I can safely say I do speak for most intelligent individuals here. It is a strength and a point to focus on.

If you are too lazy to get your facts straight, then this is not the place for you. You will be destroyed time and time again. Laughed at, riddiculed, become a joke to the population at large. Because time and time again these people demonstrate they’re just opening their mouths and spewing garbage. Often it doesn’t even make logical sense internally, never mind someone else challenging it; it collapses on its own, just reading the thing.

Such people are not fun to challenge. There is nothing to learn, and they’re certainly not taking things seriously. So when you try to argue with them, try and challenge their own beliefs, it all falls apart and they fall back on the same discredited arguments they’ve used before. In part because they really don’t give a damn, and in part because they haven’t got a clue what they’re actually talking about.

Maybe others are a little more open to out there beliefs?

We have another forum here on kong for those who wish to spout crap, lies, racism, half-truths, et al. It’s Off Topic. Arguing when you don’t know what you are talking about, and don’t particularly care whether you are right or not, is what that forum is for.

If you think SD is a place of facts. It is not.

It used to be, and for the most part, still is. It’s these lazy-ass users coming in here, and who don’t give a damn whether they’re accurate or not, that bring down the tone. We don’t need another Off Topic. If you cannot provide a good argument, and cannot back up your more outlandish claims, you simply don’t belong here.

It is better to have a smaller pool of people willing to discuss and debate seriously, than a larger pool of ignoramuses constantly spewing whatever crap comes to mind.

 
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You do realize you are breaking every rule on basic etiquette on kongregate?

At least follow the first rule of kongregate for god’s sakes.
1. Don’t be a jerk
Don’t be a jerk. Embrace this concept, young grasshopper, and the rest of life’s difficulties will fall into place. We know it’s a bit Golden Rule-y, but treating others the way you’d like to be treated is a pretty good recipe for a pleasant chat experience. We know you can’t keep everyone happy forever and ever, just don’t purposely set out to disrupt chat.

I will be the bigger man, and let you believe what you want.
I don’t divulge personal information to strangers. Especially those that choose to be despicable human beings.
Vika knows what happens when she reveals too much personal information and I empathize with what happened to her.
Do you have any empathy?
I will take the better path, and be the bigger man. Following the rules of the thread, and not bother with your trolls.
In the end Jantonaitis, you are a troll.
You have nothing better to do then try to piss people off, which I find hilarious.
You are lucky I am so tolerant, and accepting.
Another person wouldn’t be so kind.

Btw guys, lets not let flames live for too long? It doesn’t help.
Thank you, and enjoy your days.

 
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You are lucky I am so tolerant, and accepting.

I have no doubt that’s how Jan feels.

 
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Indeed. I have always longed to be accepted by the community of platitude-spewing bullshit artists.

So long as you’re finding it ‘hilarious’, I think I’ll continue. It’s not like you can actually do anything about it, regardless of how ‘kind’ you are.

Now, what I personally find hilarious is how you’ll drop broad hints about your personal life as a way to make yourself sound more impressive than you actually are, but when you get called on it by burden of proof, your amazing facility for bullshitting breaks down and you spout some nonsense about not feeling comfortable sharing or whatever. Yeah, if you didn’t feel comfortable you wouldn’t have mentioned it in the first place, dumbass.

 
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Draconavin, can we just end this nonsense, please? Just categorically state your central knowledge areas and it is done with. Mine are neurology, systems architecture and HCI. Both the prior two obviously tie directly into HCI, so that’s my core area.

Yes, I have degrees in all three, but as I said before, degrees are near worthless. Their only real purpose is to provide objective proof that you know what you’re talking about to a prospective employer. The research you do on your own is many times more valuable and far exceeds that offered by any degree.

This is why its possible for 13-18 year olds to argue convincingly on SD, because they’ve done the research themselves out of sheer interest in the concept. The ones that have not done this, are glaringly obvious by the way they post.

 
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Draco, may I ask you, are you practicing Zen or other kinds of Buddhism right now?

 
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When I see people going around saying that the Holocaust never happened, first, i’m irritated, and second, i think they’re stupid. The numbers weren’t exaggerated, the statistics are factual. The survivors of the holocaust lived through and were apart of WWII. They should be treasured and respect before they die. Everyone still has equal rights, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have special privilege.

 
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Originally posted by samuro2:

Everyone still has equal rights, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have special privilege.

Privelege: A special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to one person or group of people.

I think having priveleges contradicts having equal rights in this case. Survivors should be treated with according respect, and in most cases they are. However giving the Jewish people in general special priveleges is ridiculous. Rewarding people for their ancestors sufferings seems pointless.

Deniers are stupid, thats established, but i disagree with silencing stupid people. I understand there is a fine line between hate speech and people voicing issues like these but I also think banning people from speaking out about something – no matter how ridiculous their claim is – is a bad route to go down.
I hope i haven’t deviated from the point but i really amn’t used to putting sentences together smoothly.

 
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The Holocaust is the most shameful thing in German history(no offence) and the most horrible thing in Jewish history(also no offence). Who would deny it? The numbers are estimated it could be less or more but it is certainly up there at least 10,000

 
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