Badger cull

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What do you think of the badger cull?

I think that it’s not right to kill five thousand badgers to save cows from bovine TB, however will it really help? No! Cows can get it without badgers and instead can get it from many other animals instead. Killing thousands of badgers won’t fix anything, it’s just a waste of life. In fact, some people may have reason to believe that killing badgers may increase the amount of cattle with Bovine TB. I don’t know if it’s true but what are your opinions?

 
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Cloud the British government scientists think this is best but no vaccination or immunization is perfect

 
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That’s a good point, but I don’t like our current government. Just because they think it’s best doesn’t mean I can’t tell people my opinion and ask for theirs.

 
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https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQc3ycI6mGYucRMDFTvnsekr3UAcc1WS8oS0onF4nSprxsY9ITf

May I add, this, is what they’re killing. :(

 
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Yes it’s terrible I think the government see them as savage creatures

 
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Ah, there’s a few people in the government who I think are savage creatures. I have two ranks for government savage creatures.

Rank 1=badger killers

Rank 2=haters of ‘’bongo bongo land’’ _

 
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It’s inhumane that they suffer in poor countries. Please don’t use bongo bongo land it is kind of offensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQYK4BztRW0 he crys at the end saying it’s horrible but he does not donate himself.

 
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Cloud, your picture is of a badger cub, not a fully grown animal. Cubs are supposed to look cute. Badgers carry a disease which can devastate cattle herds, increasing the price of beef and dairy products. They replace (births and deaths) at around 30% per year, so it’s not as if we are going to run out of badgers any time soon. They are absolutely not an endangered species.

The government’s hands are tied by the EU. It’s impossible to tell the difference between an infected cow and one which has been vaccinated, so the EU has decided to make BCG vaccination illegal for cattle. The British government is nevertheless working on producing an effective vaccine for cattle. It is also working on a vaccine for badgers. Because of the sheer expense of catching and innoculating every badger, it wants one which can be eaten. One of the problems is finding a bait which only badgers will eat – if a fox, for instance, eats it, that dose of vaccine represents a wasted investment. Multiply that by a couple of million doses and you begin to see the problem here.

Life in the countryside is not always pretty, so for the moment just be grateful that your mum can still afford to buy beef.

 
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1) I didn’t say that they’re an endangered species.

2) i’m vegetarian and so is my mum, we don’t eat beef.

3) Not replying to anything you said, but sometimes, when milk is needed, they will make a cow give birth, kill the child and as a result, just take the milk. It’s a sick waste of life just to get something that can be made with rice or soya or many other things without death.

All I asked was for peoples opinions beauval, I would respect theirs as long as they respect mine as well. That’s fair right? Don’t post something that criticises my opinion if you clearly didn’t read my comments fully. Next time you post, don’t criticise mine or anyone elses opinions at the same time as creating a valid argument.

P.S. So what if they’re fully grown and carry TB? A lot of other animals carry it too, it’s just a waste of life and time to hunt them down.

 
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Originally posted by DarrenC13:

It’s inhumane that they suffer in poor countries. Please don’t use bongo bongo land it is kind of offensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQYK4BztRW0 he crys at the end saying it’s horrible but he does not donate himself.

No, no, you don’t understand, i’m not TRYING TO BE OFFENSIVE. In fact if you read my comment, it was a quote! Did you not see the news about the guy who called a certain country bongo bongo land! Don’t even post that i’m being offensive when I clearly posted that I hate people who say bongo bongo land!

 
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Originally posted by cloud190:
Originally posted by DarrenC13:

It’s inhumane that they suffer in poor countries. Please don’t use bongo bongo land it is kind of offensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQYK4BztRW0 he crys at the end saying it’s horrible but he does not donate himself.

No, no, you don’t understand, i’m not TRYING TO BE OFFENSIVE. In fact if you read my comment, it was a quote! Did you not see the news about the guy who called a certain country bongo bongo land! Don’t even post that i’m being offensive when I clearly posted that I hate people who say bongo bongo land!

I know it’s horrible, I would donate if I could. But don’t say that I was the one being offensive when I was quoting someone and said I hate people who say it and it offends me that you would think that I would call them bongo bongo land.

 
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Reminder:

Read every post very well or read it twice. We’ve had enough misunderstandings for today.

 
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Originally posted by cloud190:

1) I didn’t say that they’re an endangered species.

2) i’m vegetarian and so is my mum, we don’t eat beef.

However, your lifestyle is not the same one everyone follows. In order to get a balanced diet, meat is a really good idea, as there are a handful of proteins vegtable matter cannot provide. Thus it is in everyone’s best interest that meat is available as cheaply as possible, and beef is a staple.

It is also, arguably more importantly, a major economic export. “British Beef” being a common label, regardless of the company that actually produced that piece. Safeguading the cattle industry is good for the economy, which in turn is good for the workers of that country – especially those who work in support fields to the cattle industry, or in the industry itself.

Knowingly allowing an almost undetectable but seriously harming to humans pathogen to spread amongst the cattle population would be the death knoll to that entire industry. None of the beef produced would be fundamentally safe for human consumption.

Any sound method to minimalise infection rates whilst minimising additional expenditure is therefore a good one, and the badger cull is a sound way to do such. It lowers the prevalence of the disease in badgers at the same time, making their population healthier, so is a win-win equation.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by cloud190:

1) I didn’t say that they’re an endangered species.

2) i’m vegetarian and so is my mum, we don’t eat beef.

However, your lifestyle is not the same one everyone follows. In order to get a balanced diet, meat is a really good idea, as there are a handful of proteins vegtable matter cannot provide. Thus it is in everyone’s best interest that meat is available as cheaply as possible, and beef is a staple.

THANK YOU FOR BEING ONE OF THE ONLY POSTERS WITH AN OPINION.

P.S. I know everyone isn’t a vegetarian I was just telling one person that I was.

It is also, arguably more importantly, a major economic export. “British Beef” being a common label, regardless of the company that actually produced that piece. Safeguading the cattle industry is good for the economy, which in turn is good for the workers of that country – especially those who work in support fields to the cattle industry, or in the industry itself.


Knowingly allowing an almost undetectable but seriously harming to humans pathogen to spread amongst the cattle population would be the death knoll to that entire industry. None of the beef produced would be fundamentally safe for human consumption.


Any sound method to minimalise infection rates whilst minimising additional expenditure is therefore a good one, and the badger cull is a sound way to do such. It lowers the prevalence of the disease in badgers at the same time, making their population healthier, so is a win-win equation.

Um, sorry that I accidentally posted my comment in the quoted area.

 
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All I asked was for peoples opinions beauval, I would respect theirs as long as they respect mine as well. That’s fair right? Don’t post something that criticises my opinion if you clearly didn’t read my comments fully. Next time you post, don’t criticise mine or anyone elses opinions at the same time as creating a valid argument.

Criticising peoples’ opinions is what we do here. All I did was produce a few facts to back up my opinion that your opinion was wrong. There’s nothing personal in that, and I’m sorry that you took it that way. If I call you an idiot then you will have every reason to complain. I hope you can see the difference.

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

All I asked was for peoples opinions beauval, I would respect theirs as long as they respect mine as well. That’s fair right? Don’t post something that criticises my opinion if you clearly didn’t read my comments fully. Next time you post, don’t criticise mine or anyone elses opinions at the same time as creating a valid argument.

Criticising peoples’ opinions is what we do here. All I did was produce a few facts to back up my opinion that your opinion was wrong. There’s nothing personal in that, and I’m sorry that you took it that way. If I call you an idiot then you will have every reason to complain. I hope you can see the difference.

I suppose that’s fine as long as you don’t try to change any ones opinions.

 
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I’m a bit fence-sitty on this. I agree it’s necessary to protect cattle herds. I also agree it’s not much fun for the badgers.

But one imagines that if a better option existed, it’d be taken, so I’ll reluctantly side with the culling.

 
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Originally posted by cloud190:
Originally posted by cloud190:
Originally posted by DarrenC13:

It’s inhumane that they suffer in poor countries. Please don’t use bongo bongo land it is kind of offensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQYK4BztRW0 he crys at the end saying it’s horrible but he does not donate himself.

No, no, you don’t understand, i’m not TRYING TO BE OFFENSIVE. In fact if you read my comment, it was a quote! Did you not see the news about the guy who called a certain country bongo bongo land! Don’t even post that i’m being offensive when I clearly posted that I hate people who say bongo bongo land!

I know it’s horrible, I would donate if I could. But don’t say that I was the one being offensive when I was quoting someone and said I hate people who say it and it offends me that you would think that I would call them bongo bongo land.

no im not britsh

 
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Originally posted by DarrenC13:
Originally posted by cloud190:
Originally posted by cloud190:
Originally posted by DarrenC13:

It’s inhumane that they suffer in poor countries. Please don’t use bongo bongo land it is kind of offensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQYK4BztRW0 he crys at the end saying it’s horrible but he does not donate himself.

No, no, you don’t understand, i’m not TRYING TO BE OFFENSIVE. In fact if you read my comment, it was a quote! Did you not see the news about the guy who called a certain country bongo bongo land! Don’t even post that i’m being offensive when I clearly posted that I hate people who say bongo bongo land!

I know it’s horrible, I would donate if I could. But don’t say that I was the one being offensive when I was quoting someone and said I hate people who say it and it offends me that you would think that I would call them bongo bongo land.

no im not britsh

You didn’t even bother to read what I said. Since when did I say you were British? And What link does this have to what I said?

 
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Originally posted by NeilSenna:

But one imagines that if a better option existed, it’d be taken, so I’ll reluctantly side with the culling.

Beau’s links agree with you on this. It is absurdly labor-intensive and expensive to vaccinate the badgers with current methods, plus you still have the same problem: Without a blood workup you cannot tell if the individual badger has been infected with a non-vaccination strain or not, so there is no visual indicator of the extent of the problem in a given population.

As the links recommended, a badger-only attractive food vector would be ideal, as food ‘traps’ could be placed around badger dens and be sure every badger was vaccinated as opposed to other animals. But right now, we don’t have such an option.

Killing them is the only visual indicator method we have, to be able to tell if no infected badgers are in the area.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by NeilSenna:

But one imagines that if a better option existed, it’d be taken, so I’ll reluctantly side with the culling.

Beau’s links agree with you on this. It is absurdly labor-intensive and expensive to vaccinate the badgers with current methods, plus you still have the same problem: Without a blood workup you cannot tell if the individual badger has been infected with a non-vaccination strain or not, so there is no visual indicator of the extent of the problem in a given population.

Maybe. I can’t think of anything that could be done….yet. But it is so sad that a lot more then 5000 badgers will be killed. 5000 killed=a whole lot of babies without mothers to feed them (badgers have a lot of babies I think, three counts as a lot for me by the way) and as a result at least over ten thousand badgers could die. Most babies probably.

As the links recommended, a badger-only attractive food vector would be ideal, as food ‘traps’ could be placed around badger dens and be sure every badger was vaccinated as opposed to other animals. But right now, we don’t have such an option.


Killing them is the only visual indicator method we have, to be able to tell if no infected badgers are in the area.

 
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Maybe. I can’t think of anything that could be done….yet. But it is so sad that a lot more then 5000 badgers will be killed. 5000 killed=a whole lot of babies without mothers to feed them (badgers have a lot of babies I think, three counts as a lot for me by the way) and as a result at least over ten thousand badgers could die. Most babies probably.

That’s just your emotions talking. As Beau pointed out, Badgers have a 30% growth rate. So the population will be replenished quite quickly, and repeated culls in the same area will be mandatory.

The Welsh scheme’s costs per badger when the scheme is complete, will be telling. It may well be that the trap and innoculate idea is doomed from the start if the price per badger is at all close to the over £1,000 (over $1,600) they expect it to be. That too would have to be done annually, as additional badgers are bred, so it again is not a one-time only thing, unless we reach the point where the disease is annihilated. With current methods that is simply not going to occur.

 
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This debate has been going for a number of years now and still worth a look back at the original report in 2007

The summary is on page 3 of the PDF (paper page 5) and is only a couple paragraphs as I know some SD users don’t like reading.

Here is the important bit:

The ISG’s work – most of which has already been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals – has reached two key conclusions. First, while badgers are clearly a source of
cattle TB, careful evaluation of our own and others’ data indicates that badger culling can make no meaningful contribution to cattle TB control in Britain. Indeed, some policies under consideration are likely to make matters worse rather than better. Second, weaknesses in cattle testing regimes mean that cattle themselves contribute significantly to the persistence and spread of disease in all areas where TB occurs, and in some parts of Britain are likely to be the main source of infection. Scientific findings indicate that the rising incidence of disease can be reversed, and geographical spread contained, by the rigid application of cattle-based control measures alone.

Basically the Independent Scientific Group on Bovine TB reach the conclusion that culling makes no real impact on the prevalence of bTB and can actually help spread the disease as badger’s flee from cull areas. The solution is testing, quarantining and separation of livestock, and vaccination, however a few shotguns are alot cheaper and governments like cheap ways to look like they are tackling a problem, while actually doing nothing

 
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Originally posted by dd790:

This debate has been going for a number of years now and still worth a look back at the original report in 2007

The summary is on page 3 of the PDF (paper page 5) and is only a couple paragraphs as I know some SD users don’t like reading.

Here is the important bit:

If someone was to think really hard. Anyone could tell that you’re right. It won’t make an impact on BTB at all.

The ISG’s work – most of which has already been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals – has reached two key conclusions. First, while badgers are clearly a source of
cattle TB, careful evaluation of our own and others’ data indicates that badger culling can make no meaningful contribution to cattle TB control in Britain. Indeed, some policies under consideration are likely to make matters worse rather than better. Second, weaknesses in cattle testing regimes mean that cattle themselves contribute significantly to the persistence and spread of disease in all areas where TB occurs, and in some parts of Britain are likely to be the main source of infection. Scientific findings indicate that the rising incidence of disease can be reversed, and geographical spread contained, by the rigid application of cattle-based control measures alone.

Basically the Independent Scientific Group on Bovine TB reach the conclusion that culling makes no real impact on the prevalence of bTB and can actually help spread the disease as badger’s flee from cull areas. The solution is testing, quarantining and separation of livestock, and vaccination, however a few shotguns are alot cheaper and governments like cheap ways to look like they are tackling a problem, while actually doing nothing

 
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Um sorry, I accidentally posted IN the quote. It is at the top of the quote inside the quote where I posted.