Generation Y

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I read something rather interesting about this current generation and what the previous generation has made it into. Here is a particularly interesting excerpt:

“I just get so pissed off by the older generation. Why? Because when I grew up, we were force fed the idea that if we didn’t want to be ‘flipping burgers at McDonalds’ then we better go to college. And now we’ve gone to college, have degrees, can’t get a damn job, and the same people call us entitled assholes because we refuse to flip burgers!”


Thoughts? What do you think will become of the current generation? How do you think the previous generation has influenced it?

 
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I totally agree with the excerpt, I was told this same thing by tons of members of the older generation and when people ask me what do I plan on doing after graduating from high school next year… I tell them I want to go start maybe an internship or maybe even go into the corporate field. Then I get bashed on how people with degrees cannot even find corporate work and tell me how I should probably work at McDonalds or WalMart but they were the same people that influenced me to shun that idea! I dont know what will become of this generation maybe we should all flip burgers…

 
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GUYS STOP SLACKING OFF! GO FLIP MY BURGERS! I’M HUNGRY!

 
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Originally posted by NosenBob:

GUYS STOP SLACKING OFF! GO FLIP MY BURGERS! I’M HUNGRY!

Sorry about that sir… our customer service is very important to us.

 
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maybe we should all flip burgers…

We need people to craft my Taco Bell though…

 
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Good post Fma!

I can sympathize with the feeling that an education entitles one to nothing, despite those life lessons to the contrary. Also that skilled labour has been gutted over the past few decades, and is only going to get worse. We’re moving into a service economy working for an increasingly marginal wealthy class. The service industry as it inflates with the desperate is also getting increasingly punitive. Minimum wage is dwarfed by rising cost of living and worker organizations is criminally marginalized. That said, anyone who refuses to work, any work available, is an entitled asshole.

 
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Originally posted by fma1:

"When I grew up, we were force fed the idea that if we didn’t want to be ‘flipping burgers at McDonalds’ then we better go to college. And now we’ve gone to college, have degrees, can’t get a damn job, and the same people call us entitled assholes because we refuse to flip burgers!”

Ironically, if you have a few degrees, and you’re in a job that requires a few degrees bare minimum, you still get the abuse. Only now, it takes a slightly different form:

“You think you’re better than me, don’t you?”


Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

That said, anyone who refuses to work, any work available, is an entitled asshole.

I’m going to modify this statement Ung. I think it is too harsh. Rather, if there is any work available that you are reasonably capable of carrying out then you have the ‘entitled asshole’ problem.

Giving a wheelchair user the job of delivering papers to a block of flats would be one immediately obvious example; however they are often more subtle, employing elements of the job that directly impact the worst of the disability.

In the wheelchair deliveryperson example, if they refuse to drag their sorry carcass up those twenty flights of stairs, along with the papers and deliver one to every house, then they are not an ‘entitled asshole’. They are willing to work, but the work you offer must be work they are physically / mentally capable of performing.

The story’s no different, if you tell a deaf individual that “there is telesales work available if you want a job.”

They are physically not capable of properly using the phone system in such an environment, fast paced demanding and with a great deal of background chatter for the cochlea implant to work hard at filtering out.

If they refuse to do any work for such fully justifiable reasons, then it is not a case of them being an asshole about their entitlements, but a case of their being pragmatic and realistic that they will not be able to do the job well for reasons completely beyond their control.

 
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Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

That said, anyone who refuses to work, any work available, is an entitled asshole.

Wrong. If you have the means to survive without work, then you shouldn’t work. In the exploitative capitalist world hegemonically forced onto us, unemployment (i.e. number of people looking for employment) is used as downwards force to keep minimum wages low and to stop the lowest earners from organizing and unionizing (because if a few “unskilled” workers get uppity, their owners can just fire them and find someone less uppity). By being in the workforce, either working or seeking employment, when you don’t need the money you’re either taking the position from someone who may need it or being part of the seeking-employment caste that’s used to exploit those already employed.

 
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Originally posted by urine420:
Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

That said, anyone who refuses to work, any work available, is an entitled asshole.

Wrong. If you have the means to survive without work, then you shouldn’t work.

urine, I guessing that ya mean only those who are independently financially capable….those not on some form of govt. assistance; those who have the financial means to ensure a high standard of medical, dental, eye, etc. care; those who have the necessary retirement capital on which to retire & continue to live as they have been? Would ya be talking about that segment near retirement age? Are ya an advocate of “highly suggested” early retirement by the employer…usually so they can hire the cheaper younger (hungrier) employee?

If one factors in the desire to achieve higher status than they currently have—more travel abroad; newer & more luxurious cars, increased entertainment; clothing from somewhere other than thrift stores, etc.—then they best have enough initial capital to provide ALL of the above mentioned.

Can ya clear up for me how one enters such a situation?
I know most ppl certainly want to.
But, the reality of it is the hegemony ya go on to describe below.
.

In the exploitative capitalist world hegemonically forced onto us, unemployment (i.e. number of people looking for employment) is used as downwards force to keep minimum wages low and to stop the lowest earners from organizing and unionizing (because if a few “unskilled” workers get uppity, their owners can just fire them and find someone less uppity). By being in the workforce, either working or seeking employment, when you don’t need the money you’re either taking the position from someone who may need it or being part of the seeking-employment caste that’s used to exploit those already employed.

Y generation.
Hmmmmm….technically it is so called because this generation follows the X generation.
But, for me…I see it as being the WHY generation.
WHY has this happened to ME?
Where did the PROMISED train jump the track?

First & foremost, we must understand that this sociological situation can’t be so easily encapsulated by a simple title and be assigned a specific cause/effect to it. Life is very fluid today and churns at a remarkable rate. Meaning: it can be hard to begin a field of study and find it still viable 4 yrs. later. Toss in that EXPLOITAVE capitalist world hegemony” which ya blame to be so mercenary that it sends viable jobs for graduates to markets in other countries…. and we now have a couple of very obvious causes.

Another reason college grads face a bleak employment market is that they are the victims of the “learning-scam”. That being: since post-prep school educational facilities are now huge businesses, they just simply want the money and will do what is necessary to grow their profit margin regardless of how much their “product” is needed by the market.

From the link: “The danger is that treating educational institutes entirely as businesses is going to devalue the degrees they award, by producing graduates who aren’t as qualified as one might expect. This kind of loss of reputation is hard to reverse.”

But, some (and I haven’t a clue here other than some personal observation) of the Y-ning about the loss of entitlement due a sheepskin just might be traced back to their parenting (and the entire socially encouraged style of it).

From what I’ve seen of the “younger” Y-geners, a significant number of them have poor work ethic that runs the gamut from significant right on down to extreme. Here is a couple of response to an article
“It took me six Gen Y assistants in a year to find one that actually works instead of sitting around playing. Five of the six thought they did an amazing job, but one’s idea of filing was to put every paper in one folder, another stole money and product, another stated that she didn’t want to work, finally found a minimum wage worker by which to get pregnant so she could stay home to watch tv all day. Five of the six were still supported by their parents.”
&
“The laziest, most arrogant and self absorbed generations in history and not great in their work ethic or social skills, must be all that time sitting in front of the computer and not going out and experiencing people face to face in all types situations and environments.”
.
To be fair & balanced here, one should read all of the comments. Some of them present some factors that resolve a lot of the blame that is placed on the backs of the Y-geners.

I’m gonna pull a jhco here & relate a ONE-SINGLE-incident anecdote that probably is a factor, to some degree, in why the Y-gen is having difficulty competing in the job market. I was in the checkout lane at a food market. One lane over was a woman w/ (I assume) her 3 kids…(I’m guessing the ages here) a 15 y.o. girl w/ her nose in here phone texting, an 11 y.o. boy screwing around handling the products in the lane, an 8 y.o. girl doing nothing.

INSTEAD OF having those kids emptying the shopping cart, SHE WAS DOING IT HERSELF. I can’t help but wonder if she felt this form of parenting was somehow a good thing that showed she loves her children by not having them need//learn to actually do some “work”? OR, did she allow this fucked situation early on and has now found that it is just much easier to do the work herself rather than the huge effort to overcome the Y-hine factor the kids would put out. I.E.: spoiled to the core.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by urine420:
Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

That said, anyone who refuses to work, any work available, is an entitled asshole.

Wrong. If you have the means to survive without work, then you shouldn’t work.

urine, I guessing that ya mean only those who are independently financially capable….those not on some form of govt. assistance; those who have the financial means to ensure a high standard of medical, dental, eye, etc. care; those who have the necessary retirement capital on which to retire & continue to live as they have been? Would ya be talking about that segment near retirement age? Are ya an advocate of “highly suggested” early retirement by the employer…usually so they can hire the cheaper younger (hungrier) employee?


If one factors in the desire to achieve higher status than they currently have—more travel abroad; newer & more luxurious cars, increased entertainment; clothing from somewhere other than thrift stores, etc.—then they best have enough initial capital to provide ALL of the above mentioned.


Can ya clear up for me how one enters such a situation?
I know most ppl certainly want to.
But, the reality of it is the hegemony ya go on to describe below.
.

In the exploitative capitalist world hegemonically forced onto us, unemployment (i.e. number of people looking for employment) is used as downwards force to keep minimum wages low and to stop the lowest earners from organizing and unionizing (because if a few “unskilled” workers get uppity, their owners can just fire them and find someone less uppity). By being in the workforce, either working or seeking employment, when you don’t need the money you’re either taking the position from someone who may need it or being part of the seeking-employment caste that’s used to exploit those already employed.

Y generation.
Hmmmmm….technically it is so called because this generation follows the X generation.
But, for me…I see it as being the WHY generation.
WHY has this happened to ME?
Where did the PROMISED train jump the track?


First & foremost, we must understand that this sociological situation can’t be so easily encapsulated by a simple title and be assigned a specific cause/effect to it. Life is very fluid today and churns at a remarkable rate. Meaning: it can be hard to begin a field of study and find it still viable 4 yrs. later. Toss in that EXPLOITAVE capitalist world hegemony” which ya blame to be so mercenary that it sends viable jobs for graduates to markets in other countries…. and we now have a couple of very obvious causes.


Another reason college grads face a bleak employment market is that they are the victims of the “learning-scam”. That being: since post-prep school educational facilities are now huge businesses, they just simply want the money and will do what is necessary to grow their profit margin regardless of how much their “product” is needed by the market.


From the link: “The danger is that treating educational institutes entirely as businesses is going to devalue the degrees they award, by producing graduates who aren’t as qualified as one might expect. This kind of loss of reputation is hard to reverse.”


But, some (and I haven’t a clue here other than some personal observation) of the Y-ning about the loss of entitlement due a sheepskin just might be traced back to their parenting (and the entire socially encouraged style of it).


From what I’ve seen of the “younger” Y-geners, a significant number of them have poor work ethic that runs the gamut from significant right on down to extreme. Here is a couple of response to an article
“It took me six Gen Y assistants in a year to find one that actually works instead of sitting around playing. Five of the six thought they did an amazing job, but one’s idea of filing was to put every paper in one folder, another stole money and product, another stated that she didn’t want to work, finally found a minimum wage worker by which to get pregnant so she could stay home to watch tv all day. Five of the six were still supported by their parents.”
&
“The laziest, most arrogant and self absorbed generations in history and not great in their work ethic or social skills, must be all that time sitting in front of the computer and not going out and experiencing people face to face in all types situations and environments.”
.
To be fair & balanced here, one should read all of the comments. Some of them present some factors that resolve a lot of the blame that is placed on the backs of the Y-geners.


I’m gonna pull a jhco here & relate a ONE-SINGLE-incident anecdote that probably is a factor, to some degree, in why the Y-gen is having difficulty competing in the job market. I was in the checkout lane at a food market. One lane over was a woman w/ (I assume) her 3 kids…(I’m guessing the ages here) a 15 y.o. girl w/ her nose in here phone texting, an 11 y.o. boy screwing around handling the products in the lane, an 8 y.o. girl doing nothing.


INSTEAD OF having those kids emptying the shopping cart, SHE WAS DOING IT HERSELF. I can’t help but wonder if she felt this form of parenting was somehow a good thing that showed she loves her children by not having them need//learn to actually do some “work”? OR, did she allow this fucked situation early on and has now found that it is just much easier to do the work herself rather than the huge effort to overcome the Y-hine factor the kids would put out. I.E.: spoiled to the core.


I’m 20 so I guess I am part of this why generation.
As for not working part, you are right, I worked in a market and was known as a good worker although I did not do any thing special. I just got to work on time, came back from there on time and worked honestly.
Unlike other Generation Y ners who would not work more than 4 hrs a day will spend rest of the day wandering aimlessly or will go home.
 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:

I’m 20 so I guess I am part of this why generation.

Really, it covers anybody whose parents are just in retirement now, down to those whose parents are in their late forties. A generation is typically 20 years long, covering a wide range.

You would fall into it, yes. So would I most likely, because of the age of my mother.

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
I.E.: spoiled to the core.


I’m 20 so I guess I am part of this why generation.
As for not working part, you are right, I worked in a market and was known as a good worker although I did not do any thing special. I just got to work on time, came back from there on time and worked honestly.
Unlike other Generation Y ners who would not work more than 4 hrs a day will spend rest of the day wandering aimlessly or will go home.

If you go 20-40-60 or 80 years back you will hear much of the same things said about the younger Generation at that time.

Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

That said, anyone who refuses to work, any work available, is an entitled asshole.

I disagree, there is work i would not do and i would advise anyone else not to do. Some involves serious health risks(in many cases not just risks), some i disagree with morally(for example selling old people things they don´t need) or are even factually criminal. Morally can include some jobs where the pay is too far out of balance with the profits the employer makes off the work i would do and the employer is currently making more than enough profit in total to afford to pay better.

If this means living off basic social security, i don´t see that as problem but a basic right the modern society i live in can and should afford. There are always losers and victims of our society/reality, all known societies/realities produce them at fairly stable rate.

 
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I do admit, some of these adults, or mine generation, are getting to extreme on this new generation. they sit there, saying “if you don’t go to college, you will fail” when many of them themselves did not go to college. I admit, I myself did not go to college.

I graduated at age 18, got a job at a restaurant. Then when I was 22, I went to get a job at a hotel, for two years. Then I got my on house, started working at a mechanic shop. I eventually bought the shop, where I become the owner. that is where I worked for the rest of my life. 10 years later, I am 43, on a gaming site.

You don’t NEED to go to college, although it would GREATLY help. I have just a high school diploma, but I have a financially stable life. Of course, with the Economy now days, it is starting to become harder to get by WITHOUT a college degree. And the best part is, College is getting more expensive.

Really the only problem with the younger generation is lack of moral, but that is not what we are talking about.

My best advice to the younger generation looking for jobs, expand what you are willing to work for. A job is not just working in the office all day, you can become a air traffic controller, A truck driver, Stocker, Book Author, Businessman, Anything not a lot of people would think of. Jobs ARE out there, just be willing.

 
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You don’t NEED to go to college, although it would GREATLY help.

The problem with four year colleges (and man do I wish I knew this before I went) is you don’t learn any job skills. Unless you’ve been doing internships since you were about a sophomore (meaning you need to have a firm grasp of knowing what you want to do almost right off the bat), you aren’t going to have the skills needed to be a productive employee. Plus, now companies like to require two years experience for entry level positions which is hard to put into words how laughably bullshit it is.

And the best part is, College is getting more expensive.

Fortunately, online college is becoming more common and more generally accepted as legit schooling. I can’t wait for the ABA to accredit online law schools so if I decide I want to lawyer up, I can get it for a fraction of the cost of attending a brick and mortar law school.

 
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Wrong. If you have the means to survive without work, then you shouldn’t work.

Oops, quite right. If one is self sufficient, then I don’t believe in an inherent obligation to work. But! How are we defining means to survive without work? Is this including theft? Welfare? Or are we speaking only for those with their own food and property, or sufficient savings?

In the exploitative capitalist world hegemonically forced onto us, unemployment (i.e. number of people looking for employment) is used as downwards force to keep minimum wages low and to stop the lowest earners from organizing and unionizing (because if a few “unskilled” workers get uppity, their owners can just fire them and find someone less uppity).

I disagree that Capitalism is forced, but a separate issue. I don’t disagree with your observation otherwise, but I question why you consider that unjustified. Shitty, perhaps. But when one demands a higher wage, and beside you there is someone equally capable and willing to work for less, then you have to disparate views on what that work is worth.

That said, I think unskilled workers are not getting their fair shake, and that unions would benefit them. Walmart being a flagship example. Particularly in smaller regions.

By being in the workforce, either working or seeking employment, when you don’t need the money you’re either taking the position from someone who may need it or being part of the seeking-employment caste that’s used to exploit those already employed.

Interesting notion. I also think that a great deal of the middle to higher end positions are clogged by work-through-life babyboomers and that is part of the problem in those zones. That said, they’re all going to die sooner or later. As for lower positions, I don’t imagine there are many working that do not need the money.

Also quite apt Karma. Modern schools are a simple business, they have no need to sell higher employment, only the illusion thereof.

Johnny,

I disagree, there is work i would not do and i would advise anyone else not to do. Some involves serious health risks(in many cases not just risks), some i disagree with morally(for example selling old people things they don´t need) or are even factually criminal. Morally can include some jobs where the pay is too far out of balance with the profits the employer makes off the work i would do and the employer is currently making more than enough profit in total to afford to pay better.

I understand that your health or moral concerns may make a given line of employment disagreeable. We’ll assume they’re the only ones feasible. Nevertheless, unless you choose to starve or wander off and go all woodsman – by what right do you presume to leech off others to justify your own needs? On what basis do you dictate your own wage?

If this means living off basic social security, i don´t see that as problem but a basic right the modern society i live in can and should afford. There are always losers and victims of our society/reality, all known societies/realities produce them at fairly stable rate.

You feel it is a basic right that other people should feed you, when you refuse to work because you feel you are entitled to more pay? You also feel that we could afford to pay everyone who feels they are underpaid? I am not sure I agree. Sounds like theft to me. Why not just rob people directly? I don’t see anyone as any obligation to take care of you, I certainly wouldn’t myself – especially under those terms.

 
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As much as I love that quote as a man who spent 5 years and £20,000 at university to not use any of it in my job, I still think anyone unemployed who turns any job down is an idiot.

I am 24. I spent my life from 5-23 in education, I have matured and grown as a person more in my 7 months employment than I did in those 18 years. I could put a huge list of skills, responsibilities and accountabilities on a CV now that I never knew existed 7 months ago. As great as a degree is it does not compare in the slightest to real world experience. I know people who graduated 100%, 1st class hons and they would be eaten alive in my job for an hour, meanwhile I, who scraped through uni, can excel in my people job because I have skills outside the calm waters of academia.

 
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When I went for the intervie The Current job I got.
My boss asked" Do you know photoshop and MS office?"
I said " Well, I have a diploma in these"
He said “I don’t need diploma from you, All I need is whether you can operate them or not?”
I said " Give me your Email and I will send you a sample of my work"
I later sent him the sample and got the job.

 
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Interesting topic.

I’ve been unemployed for the last couple months. The last real job I had was working for the local socialist party…an interesting experience especially if you aren’t a socialist. After that job expired I did about a week’s worth of construction work before deciding I’d had enough. I figured I’d be more productive at getting the sort of job my degrees should open up for me if I used all the free-time to actually seek them out rather than doing ten hour day in gen labor.

Well, that was at the start of the summer, and I’m still unemployed. Technically I could go back to gen labor, and maybe I’ll have to…but I think the whole mentality of ‘if you aren’t working you’re an entitled asshole’ kinda misses a central problem that Gen Y’ers have to deal with: So you go to school and get a degree, maybe multiple degrees, and that all turns out to be rather useless, so in desperation you try to grab anything, ANYTHING. The problem then becomes that your education holds you back, and I mean that in quite a practical sense. Those burger-flipper employers aren’t going to hire a guy with a degree because they realize that he’s desperate and that he’ll take off as soon as something better comes along. Why spend the time training someone like that when you can get some illiterate off the street who doesn’t have anywhere better to go.

Sounds crazy, but I’ve had plenty of chances to test it out over the past couple months, with jobs ranging from the true burger-flippers or retail, to receptionist / administrative assistance. Some of them don’t even need to look your resume up, just a simple interview reveals enough. Now, none of that goes against Ung’s claim that people in my shoes are entitled assholes, but I’d posit that 1) a degree practically tatoos you with an entitled asshole personality, at least for certain lowbie jobs, and 2) Like syphilis, it’s virtually impossible to get rid of it once you got it. Thank you, Uni!

Incidentally

I know people who graduated 100%, 1st class hons and they would be eaten alive in my job for an hour, meanwhile I, who scraped through uni, can excel in my people job because I have skills outside the calm waters of academia.

I’ve got plenty of life skills, the difference is that they were gained either through university or as a direct result of being there. I can’t even relate to this notion of academia being anything like ‘calm waters’; I spent my education in perpetual conflict, person v person, idea v idea.

 
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Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

Johnny,

I disagree, there is work i would not do and i would advise anyone else not to do. Some involves serious health risks(in many cases not just risks), some i disagree with morally(for example selling old people things they don´t need) or are even factually criminal. Morally can include some jobs where the pay is too far out of balance with the profits the employer makes off the work i would do and the employer is currently making more than enough profit in total to afford to pay better.

I understand that your health or moral concerns may make a given line of employment disagreeable. We’ll assume they’re the only ones feasible. Nevertheless, unless you choose to starve or wander off and go all woodsman – by what right do you presume to leech off others to justify your own needs? On what basis do you dictate your own wage?

Sarcastic answer: by the same right that some employers presume to leech of those who are in the unfortunate situation to be dependent on any job offered and with a great line of takers should they refuse. Or the same right that most people presume when they leech off of society in a way that is not directly obviously basic social security, from using legal loopholes to avoid paying taxes or using societies infrastructure to make profits but not paying the share the use would require.
A great example in my country(germany) for the later would be that companies that consume large amounts of energy are excluded paying a levy that private and other less energy consuming companies have to pay for the endorsement of Green energy.

Less Sarcastic answer: by the same right that older generations have thought it okay too vote for taking up debts that future generations will have to pay the bill for. Leeching off of others is so common, that asking specifically the weakest and generally least leeching people (basic social security is in-itself generally just a pittance) to justify their leeching is kinda ironic. I could also justify it should i personally start leeching in such a manner, justify it by the services and taxes i or my family have provided/paid (now and past), in part too fund the very leeching i would be claiming but also the various other forms of leeching.

Non-Sarcastic answer: My society has a social contract. Part of that social contract is that everyone gets certain rights and privileges but also obligations. Some notable ones including right to human dignity, life, health and freedom of conscience. One of the Obligations is that Ownership of property Obligates, its use shall also be a use for the good of society. Other parts of the social contract include many forms of social security.


If this means living off basic social security, i don´t see that as problem but a basic right the modern society i live in can and should afford. There are always losers and victims of our society/reality, all known societies/realities produce them at fairly stable rate.

You feel it is a basic right that other people should feed you, when you refuse to work because you feel you are entitled to more pay?

No, other people feeding me is not what i am talking about. Its a basic right human right for everyone to have the standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

You also feel that we could afford to pay everyone who feels they are underpaid? I am not sure I agree.

No i don´t. But then we would not have to since most people do not consider switching to basic social security such a good option. We can (and here i mean my country) afford to pay for those who choose for whatever reason to live of this basic social security for what ever reason. It in fact it would come cheaper for Us than most alternate models. Since those models either waste economically unfeasible amounts of money trying to find and punish slackers or force them to work(current german model) or waste heaps of money on the prosecution and jail accommodation of the slackers who turn to crime because of the lack of such a basic security net(current US model).
Hell the left (and some on the right) in my really go extreme and demand a government paid basic income for everyone(financed with taxes on higher income, capital gains and wealth).

Sounds like theft to me. Why not just rob people directly? I don’t see anyone as any obligation to take care of you, I certainly wouldn’t myself – especially under those terms.

1.Is it theft if its legal?
2. Because the German IRS is much better at getting the money for those in need than i am, i would also be taking away their work, so no reason to pull a robin hood.
3. You would not have to take care of me, one of the reasons social security was installed in the first place is because personal charity is unreliable when it comes to fairly and justly taking care of those in need.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

I’ve got plenty of life skills, the difference is that they were gained either through university or as a direct result of being there. I can’t even relate to this notion of academia being anything like ‘calm waters’; I spent my education in perpetual conflict, person v person, idea v idea.

I spent alot of my time at uni person on person, and while those skills help me in life I wouldn’t say they help in employment ;)

Academia is nothing like working life, in any way, at least not for the job I have got out of it. I use some aspects I learned, but most of it is my natural self rather than anything my £20,000 and titles bought me. I’d still say that money and time was a total waste, even if I enjoyed it at the time for all the wrong reasons

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:

When I went for the intervie The Current job I got.
My boss asked" Do you know photoshop and MS office?"
I said " Well, I have a diploma in these"
He said “I don’t need diploma from you, All I need is whether you can operate them or not?”
I said " Give me your Email and I will send you a sample of my work"
I later sent him the sample and got the job.

Congrats on getting the job. I would say though that I’ve learned Photoshop and MS Office (and a bunch of other nifty stuff like Visio and MS Project) through my experience in academia. I have to say, even though it’s not work experience, I really like it. Due to having to teach self on certain software, I’ve adapted and learned how to generate a lot of cool things that transfer into actual skills; I actually generated an HQ report on the spot once and taught my boss some things.

direct result of being there. I can’t even relate to this notion of academia being anything like ‘calm waters’; I spent my education in perpetual conflict, person v person, idea v idea.

I agree with the perpetual conflict notion. The last State University I attended was pure hell, almost from start to finish. It was grueling and much, much worse than my “work” time in the military or anywhere else.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
One lane over was a woman w/ (I assume) her 3 kids…(I’m guessing the ages here) a 15 y.o. girl w/ her nose in here phone texting, an 11 y.o. boy screwing around handling the products in the lane, an 8 y.o. girl doing nothing.

Which is one of the main reasons I stop any sense of entitlement in my 11 year old before it even starts to creep in. Don’t think that I haven’t been bombarded with numerous requests for a personal iPhone, since “all her friends” already have one; I’ve even had a family member offer to pay for hers. A friend my child’s age was basically given whatever the hell she wanted from a very early age; now at 12 she has her own iPhone, Facebook account (where it states she is a “model” and “married” and includes the typical self gratifying inappropriate self shots), and anything else she browbeats her grandparents into giving her at her disposal. With this accelerated rate of maturity, I forsee a pregnancy by 16. Just a theory.

It sounds like the lady you observed in the checkout line may have lost the battle already.

INSTEAD OF having those kids emptying the shopping cart, SHE WAS DOING IT HERSELF. I can’t help but wonder if she felt this form of parenting was somehow a good thing that showed she loves her children by not having them need//learn to actually do some “work”?

You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

OR, did she allow this fucked situation early on and has now found that it is just much easier to do the work herself rather than the huge effort to overcome the Y-hine factor the kids would put out. I.E.: spoiled to the core.

It’s much easier in the short run, but in the long run, someone is overrun. In a nutshell, it’s never easier to do it this way.

 
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It sounds like the lady you observed in the checkout line may have lost the battle already.

INSTEAD OF having those kids emptying the shopping cart, SHE WAS DOING IT HERSELF. I can’t help but wonder if she felt this form of parenting was somehow a good thing that showed she loves her children by not having them need//learn to actually do some “work”?

You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

the dictator anyone else?

 
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Originally posted by dd790:

Academia is nothing like working life, in any way.

This part of your reply, I have to disagree with. Whilst it was not like it for you, it may well be like it for others, particularly anyone who gets a job in private-enterprise based R&D. Its not the same as normal academia. Less focus on bullshit and more on actual results. Less freedom to publish every discovery you make for reasons of IP protection, but skills learnt in one do still transmit directly over to the other.

In such positions, being able to survive in the academic world is a good preparation for what you’re going to find when you develop the same things commercially. It’s not the same, to put it mildly, but there is a definite connection.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by dd790:

Academia is nothing like working life, in any way.

This part of your reply, I have to disagree with. Whilst it was not like it for you, it may well be like it for others, particularly anyone who gets a job in private-enterprise based R&D. Its not the same as normal academia. Less focus on bullshit and more on actual results. Less freedom to publish every discovery you make for reasons of IP protection, but skills learnt in one do still transmit directly over to the other.

In such positions, being able to survive in the academic world is a good preparation for what you’re going to find when you develop the same things commercially. It’s not the same, to put it mildly, but there is a definite connection.

Colledge education should be seen as a toolbox rather than a guide. Some tools will fit your job, others will not.

 
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Education can be a good way to avoid a job for a few additional years, which is where all the slackers come from.
(and i know, it depends on the study and likely the country as well)

Hell the left (and some on the right) in my really go extreme and demand a government paid basic income for everyone(financed with taxes on higher income, capital gains and wealth).

This would actually solve the waste of resources punishing them for crime or not getting a job.(or for having the government “teaching them to work” as we now seem to have in the Netherlands)
and it would be a replacement for the social security, so a pretty good system imo, just keep the basic income low so they can still buy food/pay rent but will have to get a job to afford any luxury.