Government shutdown

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Not intended to be a fear mongering thread at all; more of an exploratory topic. I was just hearing from various sources about a potential government shutdown that could lead to a delay or cut of benefits. This has people on government rolls (like DOD and veterans receiving pensions) particularly worried.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/government-shutdown-up-to-speed/?hpt=hp_t1

Does anyone have any information or perspective on this? How do you feel about this and what do you think the real, day to day impact will be? Discuss.

 
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From the article it doesn’t sound like that big a problem – it already happened once in 1995 so it’s not unprecedented for the US. Everything from SS to the military will continue to function. It’s not like it’ll be anarchy out there, it just points to the continuing dysfunctionality of your government (and why a House of Lords setup would be a good idea).

 
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Belgium went for 18 months without a government, and hardly anyone noticed. Politicians are sometimes over-rated, but you knew that anyway. The civil service will continue to administer existing policy until such time as a new government is formed.

 
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I’m still trying to figure out what this means for veterans disability and education benefits, since (potentially) affected people online have started to howl already.

I think it might mean that if those are stopped, we take loans or IOU’s from Navy Federal or USAA until they pass their budget and backpay us, though I can’t find a source for that and I’m not sure. This would unfortunately be nothing new to us, since we did this drill every summer California state employees had to wait until the budget passed.

 
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If it is existing policy that those benefits are paid, then that is what the appropriate branch of the civil service will do until the money runs out. If it does run out, then you will need a government to find some more.

Are these people simply howling at the moon because they don’t understand how things work, or are there solid reasons to suspect that payments will be withheld sooner rather than later?

 
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It’s only an issue if you had a trip booked to camp at Yellowstone. Otherwise, it’s something the media, the President, and Democrats are going to blow wildly out of proportion. Most people wouldn’t even know the government was shut down unless someone told them.

@TN

The VA said they should be good until around the end of October. If it’s prolonged, they may have an issue. These things rarely last longer than a couple days.

 
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There goes our economy…for a bit.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:

@TN

The VA said they should be good until around the end of October. If it’s prolonged, they may have an issue. These things rarely last longer than a couple days.

I hope they get their act together by then and keep their act together in the coming years. If they cut out VA, there would go exactly 100% of our family’s paycheck.

 
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Heard Rush Limbaugh on the radio (my dad listens to him) talking about how he thought it was the Democrats pushing for the government shutdown and who had fought the military sequester. Nearly facepalmed my head off.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:

It’s only an issue if you had a trip booked to camp at Yellowstone. Otherwise, it’s something the media, the President, and Democrats are going to blow wildly out of proportion. Most people wouldn’t even know the government was shut down unless someone told them.

Oh, for Christ’s sake.
issendorf, ya’re usually at least only a few doors down from the home of Home Rational in Town Conservative….by comparison to jhco living on the wrong side of the tracks.

But, what the fuck is this?
YOU are most always so quick to chicken-on-a-June-bug jump at an opportunity—even though it often isn’t at all necessary—to say: But…but…but the Democrats are doing it to.
And, nobody was really arguing that they don’t. It is just that the GOP is the one that is incessantly & irrationally the one that is the REAL SOURCE of the most egregious areas of the problem.

BUT here, ya have somehow managed to hypocritically omit the GOP in this folly of blow wildly out of proportion just how bad this shut down is going to be. Is it really going to be ONLY a folly?

If ya weren’t so “issendorf” when it comes your taking a rational keen look at the GOP far-right, ya’d admid there is going to be a whole lot more issues than visiting National Parks.

Let’s have a looksee
“In U.S. politics, a government shutdown is a situation in which the government stops providing all but “essential” services. Typically, federal services that continue despite a shutdown include the National Weather Service and its parent agencies, medical services at federal facilities, the postal service, armed forces, air traffic management, and corrections (the penal system). A government shutdown is similar to a lockout in the private sector."

“A federal government shutdown causes a large number of civilian federal employees to be furloughed. Military personnel and essential employees are not furloughed, but may not be paid as scheduled.23

Furlough, as in:
“In the United States, a furlough (/ˈfɜrloʊ/; from Dutch: “verlof”) is a temporary unpaid leave of some employees due to special needs of a company, which may be due to economic conditions at the specific employer or in the economy as a whole. These involuntary furloughs may be short or long term, and many of those affected may seek other temporary employment during that time."

“In the United States, involuntary furloughs concerning federal government employees may be of a sudden and immediate nature. Such was the case in February 2010, when a single Senate objection prevented emergency funding measures from being implemented. As a result, 2000 federal workers for the Department of Transportation were immediately furloughed as of March 1, 2010.1 The longest such shutdown was December 16, 1995, to January 6, 1996, which affected all non-essential employees, shutting down many services including National Institutes of Health, visa and passport processing, parks, and many others.2

This is why I hate the fuck out of political bickering—ESSEPCIALLY FROM THE GOP, the part of NO—when it so harshly impacts the lives of the ppl these asshole are supposed to care about & serve.

 
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You notice how issendorf conveniently preempted basically any and all information one might post about the shutdown?
Rather artful, actually, claiming ahead of time that any media outlet is just a propaganda machine.

I guess that way facts are disallowed if they come from anywhere but …where, Ted Cruz?
Are facts still facts if they come from the Teahadists?

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

Belgium went for 18 months without a government, and hardly anyone noticed. Politicians are sometimes over-rated, but you knew that anyway. The civil service will continue to administer existing policy until such time as a new government is formed.

Your using the wrong translation of Government. The closest to the Government of Belgium the US has is the President and he is not being shutdown, neither are the Ministers he is allowed to appoint. Its the (federal and Washington D.C.) civil service thats being partially shutdown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_2013#Impact

 
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Karma:

Oh no a temporary furlough! Life’s tough when you can’t work for a week. I’m more concerned about the 8,500 people laid off at Merck because of new drug regulations, not the people who get an unpaid vacation.

Softest:

I’d source something (again) but it would just be from a corporate cheerleader and I didn’t think you would like that. I’m also pretty sure I’ve never used Ted Cruz as a source.

It’s also not that the media is a propaganda machine that they are going to go overboard. It’s because disaster is always something that gets people’s attention. It’s the same way that nightly newscasts open with a double homicide.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:

Karma:

Oh no a temporary furlough! Life’s tough when you can’t work for a week. I’m more concerned about the 8,500 people laid off at Merck because of new drug regulations, not the people who get an unpaid vacation.

Softest:

I’d source something (again) but it would just be from a corporate cheerleader and I didn’t think you would like that. I’m also pretty sure I’ve never used Ted Cruz as a source.

It’s also not that the media is a propaganda machine that they are going to go overboard. It’s because disaster is always something that gets people’s attention. It’s the same way that nightly newscasts open with a double homicide.

Is it all just a republican clown show? Because if its true and the government shutdown is not as bad as it is made to be, then there seems to be no reason for the democrats and the president to even consider stopping ACA because of the meaningless threat.
So are the republicans are making another pointless Statement, just this time on the back of those people actually effected by the shutdown or what?

 
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Fair enough on the disaster coverage aspect issendorf.
Definitely the model to make everything a huge story, I can’t disagree.

As for your concerns about Merck, I think they’ve proven effectively in the past that they NEED more regulatory oversight. (VIOXX, anyone?)
As for their layoffs, perhaps if the board and upper echelon execs weren’t getting such a massive payroll, they could afford to pay those people.
SOURCE

Finally, from what I’ve read, it looks like an R&D restructuring.
Not sure where you got the idea that the company was being stifled by regulation.
SOURCE

 
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The story in the wall street journal said that tighter regulations are forcing drug companies to streamline their research departments. To be fair, that is just one of the factors, but it’s a factor that seems to be affecting the industry (not that pharmaceuticals are the most sympathetic group of companies).

 
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Can anyone illuminate what this shutdown really means? I can’t find any answers on the bottom line I’m looking for, so to speak, online.

For instance, this article said that veterans benefits would be effected and possibly stopped:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-the-government-shutdown-will-work/

Does that mean the veteran never gets paid their pension ever again, or does it stop for a couple months (while Washington fucks around), and then gets backpaid?

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:

Does that mean the veteran never gets paid their pension ever again, or does it stop for a couple months (while Washington fucks around), and then gets backpaid?

It won’t mean they never get paid it again. It likely means they will not get paid it for the duration of the shutdown.

Whether it gets backpaid or not is up in the air.

 
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On a more personal note… I’m flying to the States in, umm, 6 days… what, if anything, will this mean for the accidental tourist?

 
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Originally posted by donseptico:

On a more personal note… I’m flying to the States in, umm, 6 days… what, if anything, will this mean for the accidental tourist?

National parks, government run museums and monuments are all closed. Probably other stuff too.

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by beauval:

Belgium went for 18 months without a government, and hardly anyone noticed. Politicians are sometimes over-rated, but you knew that anyway. The civil service will continue to administer existing policy until such time as a new government is formed.

Your using the wrong translation of Government. The closest to the Government of Belgium the US has is the President and he is not being shutdown, neither are the Ministers he is allowed to appoint. Its the (federal and Washington D.C.) civil service thats being partially shutdown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_2013#Impact

My mistake, I was forgetting what a convoluted process the American budget is, and how ludicrously easy it is to hijack it. It wouldn’t happen that way here – the ruling party presents the budget to Parliament, the opposition complains about it, and then everyone gets on with their job. Much easier that way. And the civil service remains permanently funded throughout.

 
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Message from President Obama on shutdown. My local Congressman does not seem to like him and Obama does not seem happy with Congress either based on the tone of the message:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IUG4zQYwc4

 
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beau, time was that that’s pretty much how the US budget process went.
Not so much the last few years.

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

My mistake, I was forgetting what a convoluted process the American budget is, and how ludicrously easy it is to hijack it. It wouldn’t happen that way here – the ruling party presents the budget to Parliament, the opposition complains about it, and then everyone gets on with their job. Much easier that way. And the civil service remains permanently funded throughout.

The USA is ruled by a coalition (if I may use the European term) formed by Republicans and Democrats. The opposition are parties like for example SPUSA, Constitutions Party or The Greens. And that a coalition disagree about the budget is also pretty common here in Europe. The difference is, that institutes have a decent amount of reserve funds in most European countries.

 
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“We don’t have the money to pay for other people’s medical expenses, we’re already deep into debt! If you don’t stop this bill we’re shutting down the government and costing us millions each month more than we were already losing. This will make the other party look bad, which we need because we haven’t won an election we didn’t rig in years.

The Republican party really is so out of touch, it’s astonishing. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, as they made a calculated effort to win legislature with gerrymandering, and haven’t really been playing the game since since Bush Sr. I have no idea where all of the actual legitimate non-neocon conservatives went. It’d be really easy to get the republican party back on the wagon.

Fix immigration, tie up the cheap labor and corporate farming in the south and start investing in small to medium sized business loan forgiveness and authorization. If you’re going to spend like a liberal, at least budget like a conservative. Stop sleeping with banks and big business and start penalizing for outsourcing and tax sheltered satellite operations. Stand behind an actual fair tax and remember the red neck values and fix unions for the better instead of pretending they’re tools of a liberal. Limit the power of government to define marriages and religious ideals all together, leaving others to get “gay married” and leaving you to have your creepy beliefs. Enforce actual fair competition in business and eliminate laws that allow corporations to monopolize and stagnate infrastructure in the US. Disband the Feds and NSA, asserting the freedom from oppression that this country was founded upon. Remember the goddamned party’s actual ethics instead of falling for corporate bought liberals who operate under the guise of conservative ideals while promoting nothing but corporate and private interests.

But instead we get ineptitude and stagnation. RIP Republican Party. Can’t wait for another good intentioned and easily molded clay liberal.