Why are you, specifically, against war?

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So, war is a terrible thing, I think we can all mostly agree on that (I hope, anyway). I’m curious, though, as to what specifically makes war an issue that you personally find abhorrent.

 
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Along with the ‘top answer’ (it tends to be a little bit violent and people die)… the fact that war is usually over issues ranging from trivial to non-existant.

These issues are blown up by people who normally have sufficient education and life experience to know better, and pretty much every war could be avoided if people just (for want of a better phrase) chilled the fuck out.

 
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Originally posted by onlineidiot1994:

So, war is a terrible thing, I think we can all mostly agree on that (I hope, anyway). I’m curious, though, as to what specifically makes war an issue that you personally find abhorrent.

May be because war, just like any other crises brings out the worse traits of humanity along with the best.
No matter how noble ones cause is, things tend to go out of hand.
Yet still, I think there are wars worth fighting.

 
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Originally posted by onlineidiot1994:

So, war is a terrible thing, I think we can all mostly agree on that (I hope, anyway). I’m curious, though, as to what specifically makes war an issue that you personally find abhorrent.

It’s messy.

I’m curious to know what sort of answers you’re looking for.

 
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Diplomacy costs fewer lives and less cash.

 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:
Originally posted by onlineidiot1994:

So, war is a terrible thing, I think we can all mostly agree on that (I hope, anyway). I’m curious, though, as to what specifically makes war an issue that you personally find abhorrent.

It’s messy.

I’m curious to know what sort of answers you’re looking for.

How war has impacted your daily life. I mean, most 1st world countries (i.e. where most who are reading this thread are from) have not been the site of any sort of open, continued warfare since WW2 (not including former Yugoslavia, of course). Many have sent troops out to other countries, yeah, but not much in the way of being invaded themselves.

 
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No. You have to do what you have to do to defend yourself and keep alive.

Originally posted by NeilSenna:

Along with the ‘top answer’ (it tends to be a little bit violent and people die)… the fact that war is usually over issues ranging from trivial to non-existant.

These issues are blown up by people who normally have sufficient education and life experience to know better, and pretty much every war could be avoided if people just (for want of a better phrase) chilled the fuck out.

As trivial as resources? Do you realize how important they are? What do you mean know better? Your education has no effect because it’s an objective view. There will always be war regardless of the education.

 
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Ol’ Ben put a good spin on it: “There was never a good war, or a bad peace.”

 
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Personally, if I had to choose between using resources for building homes and manufacturing guns, I’d say that building homes is more important. Sure, a part of a home might mean one less gun to defend yourself with, but a home might be one less incentive to take up arms in order to survive off someone else’s death. That’s just one example, of course, but I’m sure there are plenty other comparisons other people can bring up.

Other than that, the people who actually want to go to war usually aren’t the people on the battlefield.

 
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i only support war on terrorism.

 
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Originally posted by Roki123:

i only support war on terrorism.

So do I, we have to kick these terrorist americans out of Afghanistan, don’t you think?

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by Roki123:

i only support war on terrorism.

So do I, we have to kick these terrorist americans out of Afghanistan, don’t you think?

americans aren’t terrorists…

 
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The disadvantages(widespread murder, destruction of property, possible trade sanctions by disapproving UN, economy plunges etc. etc.) far outweigh the advantages(some country gets to feel important, grab some land, obtain some natural resources).

 
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Other than that, the people who actually want to go to war usually aren’t the people on the battlefield.

Eh… You may want to talk to more vets before you make those assumptions. I’ve met quite a few who said they don’t mind being deployed, except for the fact that they’re away from their families.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Ol’ Ben put a good spin on it: “There was never a good war, or a bad peace.”

I’d say post-Versailles Germany was a pretty shitty peace.

Anyway, I personally, am against war because then I have to actually work hard for my money, and nobody likes doing that.

 
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Originally posted by onlineidiot1994:
Other than that, the people who actually want to go to war usually aren’t the people on the battlefield.

Eh… You may want to talk to more vets before you make those assumptions. I’ve met quite a few who said they don’t mind being deployed, except for the fact that they’re away from their families.

So, YOU have “met QUITE A FEW vets” who say they don’t mind being deployed…..eh?

One: I’m sure those few speak well for ALL OF the others…..yeah. LOL

Two: Are these “grunts” truly all that aware of how they “fit into” the bigger picture of the military/industrial complex equation? I mean, patriotism is one thing; being used by those who stand to profit handsomely by manipulation of it is quite another.

Three: Those who haven’t served in a war zone probably really shouldn’t be doing much opining on the issue. Another sage (William Tecumseh Sherman): War is Hell.

Four: Your post-Versailles Germany is just that…POST-war.
I think the “bad peace” is to be seen in lieu of war;
NOT as a result of it.
It truly is.

 
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The worm does not discriminate, and when a man dies it seals his fate.
Pagan, Christian, Atheist, or Jew, no matter who you are or what you do, the worm will eat you.
Communist, Fascist, Muslim, or Hindu, no matter who you are or what you do, the worm will eat you.

To the worm, a corpse on the field of battle is just a simple meal;
an easy place to breed in any nation.

 
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Two: Are these “grunts” truly all that aware of how they “fit into” the bigger picture of the military/industrial complex equation? I mean, patriotism is one thing; being used by those who stand to profit handsomely by manipulation of it is quite another.

They likely aren’t keeping track of marxist propaganda, no. I’m never quite certain what those who hammer the ‘military/industrial complex’ argument expect from a military. We should only have one if nobody profits? That would require the government to nationalize the factories that create the weapons. I’m sure it’d go over real well in liberty-loving America.

Three: Those who haven’t served in a war zone probably really shouldn’t be doing much opining on the issue.

And yet we ‘opine’ about virtually everything else without direct personal experience. Nonetheless, let’s entertain that argument by comparison to


One: I’m sure those few speak well for ALL OF the others…..yeah. LOL

Which sounds rather contradictory given the above. Either their input is worth more by virtue of being soldiers or it isn’t. You can’t have it both ways. Note that nobody’s said ‘all soldiers think x’ before you.

Four: Your post-Versailles Germany is just that…POST-war.
I think the “bad peace” is to be seen in lieu of war;
NOT as a result of it.
It truly is.

I have no idea what you’re saying here, but the reparations from Versailles directly resulted in WW2 so I think that’s a pretty good example of a bad peace.
 
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Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

Two: Are these “grunts” truly all that aware of how they “fit into” the bigger picture of the military/industrial complex equation? I mean, patriotism is one thing; being used by those who stand to profit handsomely by manipulation of it is quite another.

They likely aren’t keeping track of marxist propaganda, no.

DUH.
.

I’m never quite certain what those who hammer the ‘military/industrial complex’ argument expect from a military.
And, ya probably never will be. So?
But, those who “have an interest” in how American tax dollars are spent on our military compared to the rest of the world probably should know….eh?
After all, it is our money that ends up in some rich guy’s pockets.
.
We should only have one if nobody profits?
OH, stop it w/ the bullshit, jan.
What a load of hyperbolic childishness.
.
That would require the government to nationalize the factories that create the weapons. I’m sure it’d go over real well in liberty-loving America.
Hmmmmm…merely more ignorance on YOUR part.
The “govt”. is the “lap dog” that is being wagged by its tail (the rich) into passing the military budget they want….essentially, making the military//industry somewhat “nationalized” anyway.
.

Three: Those who haven’t served in a war zone probably really shouldn’t be doing much opining on the issue.


And yet we ‘opine’ about virtually everything else without direct personal experience. Nonetheless, let’s entertain that argument by comparison to….

Oh, goodie….jan is going to read us a story before nap time.
.
KKK: One: I’m sure those few speak well for ALL OF the others…..yeah. LOL
Which sounds rather contradictory given the above. Either their input is worth more by virtue of being soldiers or it isn’t. You can’t have it both ways. Note that nobody’s said ‘all soldiers think x’ before you.

NO…it really is only contradictory because YOU want it to be (for reasons YOU & I well know).
How ignorant is it to not understand that a few (of little knowledge) can opine in a very limited capacity?
And, I guess YOU totally missed (or don’t understand) the full IMPLICATION of: _"Those who haven’t served in a war zone PROBABLY shouldn’t be doing MUCH…..
Meaning: Anyone can have an opinion about something. However, those who have much more knowledge on the issue will likely have a much more relevant opinion…eh?
AND, while those vet’s idiot has spoken to are few in number (don’t speak for ALL?), they certainly would tacitly be included in the above group.
Got it?
Good.

Four: Your post-Versailles Germany is just that…POST-war.
I think the “bad peace” is to be seen in lieu of war;
NOT as a result of it.
It truly is.

I have no idea what you’re saying here,

AND….I am surprised….HOW?
.
… but the reparations from Versailles directly resulted in WW2 so I think that’s a pretty good example of a bad peace.
Twist it as much as ya want (I’m guessing that YOU haven’t been at all close to actual combat?), what Ben F. said holds true. Just because a “bad” peace led to “another war” (or just a mere continutation of the first) didn’t mean that it was a far better time than a war is.

Good grief, jan…if this is the kind of responses YOU want to make to me,,,,
guess what…it is why I have ya muted from my profile (which so really—but very oddly—pisses ya off). But ow, I’m going to effectively put ya on mute for the forum for much the same reason. I’ll be using the “ignore” feature a lot of other forums use….only I’ll merely do it the old-fashioned way by no longer spending time feeding YOUR “ego” via reading or responding to your shit. Ya know, like what is best to do to a troll.
Have a nice life.
So long.

 
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I wasn’t aware pointing out the various fallacies and left-wing propaganda propped up as arguments counted as trolling now. But of course, for you, any criticism of your arguments counts as trolling, so in a certain sense I suppose you’re right.

I’d love to hear all about your military experience, since you’ve made quite a point of insisting that you have to have some in order to have a valid comment.

As for the muting comment, I direct you here. I neglected to delete the comment, since I decided that you might need to read it multiple times before it sank in.

Oh, goodie….jan is going to read us a story before nap time.

Seems a bit ironic considering the size of your rants posts.

 
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One: I’m sure those few speak well for ALL OF the others…..yeah. LOL

Yeah, there’s a lot of us, but from speaking to a lot of people it’s a mixed bag as to which they prefer, especially considering how a lot of them have families that don’t necessarily give the support that they need.

Two: Are these “grunts” truly all that aware of how they “fit into” the bigger picture of the military/industrial complex equation? I mean, patriotism is one thing; being used by those who stand to profit handsomely by manipulation of it is quite another.

God damn you’re ignorant as to who joins the military. We’re not all idiots who hit our heads against the wall to become stronger. Many NCOs and most Officers have a college degree (at least an associates). Myself, I’m just a PV2, and I’m currently in college. Don’t act like we’re idiots karma, that’s just an arrogant, uninformed judgement left over from the Vietnam era.
Three: Those who haven’t served in a war zone probably really shouldn’t be doing much opining on the issue. Another sage (William Tecumseh Sherman): War is Hell.

Quoting a dead philosopher doesn’t make you right. I can do it too.
“A bad peace is worse than war” – Tacitus

 
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Originally posted by onlineidiot1994:

So, war is a terrible thing, I think we can all mostly agree on that (I hope, anyway). I’m curious, though, as to what specifically makes war an issue that you personally find abhorrent.

Unfortunately you hope wrong. I’m going to buck the trend here, in part, and say that war can be quite a good thing. Considering that wars one way or another, directly result in my getting paid, and for funding the last three major projects I’ve been a part of. Without them, I’d never have been able to advance the human-machine interface anywhere near as much as I have, and that goes for every last one of my peers as well.

Yes there are some things in war that are appalling – using civilians as bait/shields/anything in a war area being a biggie – going after noncombatants to deal with your own sexual frustration comes to mind. Another is the use of landmines. Anyone who plants them should be hung, shot, disemboweled, drawn, quartered, then fed into a mulcher – preferably all whilst they are still alive. Mines last way beyond the length of whatever combat they are a part of, and kill or maim more noncombatants than anything else.

But ultimately war itself is just a form of tribal aggression. A very lethal form of tribal aggression. A few orders of magnitude above the ‘rooting for your team and kicking the asses of the supporters of the other team’ seen at sports games.

Sometimes they’re seen as a grizzly form of dealing with an employment issue as well. High unemployment? Pick a country and start a war, form a draft. You won’t have high unemployment any more! Pretty much used to be done that way at times, before we had weapons that could destroy the board itself.

War itself, if properly regulated and supervised, would almost be like a sport. A very gristly sport where trained patriotic volunteers from both sides charge into an area emptied of all non-coms, to settle whichever issue of the day the two leaderships were peeved at each other on. Maybe then there’s be less interest in partaking, but considering your average football match in the UK and the redecoration of any home or business unfortunate enough to be displaying the wrong colors within 10 miles of the stadium when the match ends, it would probably be just as popular under those conditions, as it is now.

 
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yes and by conquering another civ they can bring prosperity to it. As an example let’s take the Persian empire, They were considered liberators rather than conquerors because they treated them with honor and not fear. They gave freedom of religion and weren’t as evil or barbaric as somebody like the Japanese during the Imjin war.

Vikatae is also right in saying that it could fix unemployment but not only that but overpopulation. Think of the advancement that were spurred by competition. Constantly building new tech to rival the other nation and remember that with so many divisions in the human race by civs they have been hiding tech from each other. Sure right now they are a bit more trusting but people are not likely to tell somebody advancements that could make them lose the edge on the power scale. It causes wasted resources when they are both on the same thing but could have build it quicker.

 
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Attempting to kill another being who has done nothing to warrant any violent action.

Let the politicians fight their own wars………………. That’d soon put an end to armed conflicts on a global scale……………………….

 
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Originally posted by 2fargon:

Attempting to kill another being who has done nothing to warrant any violent action.

Let the politicians fight their own wars………………. That’d soon put an end to armed conflicts on a global scale……………………….

If only such simplistic viewpoints were all that is necessary to conduct the affairs of ppl so deeply divided on extremely serious issues….IF ONLY.