Knockout Game page 2

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Actually Punisher, I’m a little interested in the backstory with those kids. You said:

you know what happened when I took those teens to their fathers?
They didn’t try to bribe me or asked for forgiveness, they just said
“Thank you for coming to us but if this ever happens again, get them thrown in jail or drown ‘em in a river, we don’t care.”

That is some absolutely appalling parenting. The parents don’t care if you kill their kids. Just don’t bother them about it, and they’ll carry on with their lives? Is that honestly the norm where you live? That parents just plop kids out and don’t give a shit what happens to them after that?

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

Actually Punisher, I’m a little interested in the backstory with those kids. You said:

you know what happened when I took those teens to their fathers?
They didn’t try to bribe me or asked for forgiveness, they just said
“Thank you for coming to us but if this ever happens again, get them thrown in jail or drown ‘em in a river, we don’t care.”

That is some absolutely appalling parenting. The parents don’t care if you kill their kids. Just don’t bother them about it, and they’ll carry on with their lives? Is that honestly the norm where you live? That parents just plop kids out and don’t give a shit what happens to them after that?

the thing was, they were spolied little brats and their parents had done everu ting in their power to straighten them, it was more of a surrender than not caring, this way they simply told them that they are not having their baccks any more

 
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To be honest, I am very disgusted by the knockout game.

Because the fact is that everyone is targeted and most of the time those that are attack survive and live the consequences of it.

There was this guy who was attacked twice. The first time he went into a coma and woke up jobless with a divorce slapped onto his head. He took to alcohol and became homeless.
Then while he was rummaging through garbage one day, he was attacked a second time. This time the blow broke his neck and killed him.
They destroyed his family, they destroyed his life. What kind of sick people do this?

And I agree with Karma like what has happen to just blowing up dog poop. I remember as a kid we played games of tag and ice and freeze not games of lets-knock-out-that-guy-by-the-corner.

The law enforcement has done nothing much with only making arrest after the crime has been committed. Prevention is better than cure and in this case its so much better before the victim receives the physical and emotional damage.
The question here is also parenting. Spare the rod, spoil the child. No doubt. I was caned when I was 4 cause I made a racket at a dentist. Up to now, I’m still frighten to make a sound at the dentist other than the normal winces of pain when the dentist pokes your gums. Good parenting, I find, is the root solution to this problem. When you are able to teach your kid to understand the fact that this is not fun but a gruesome sport do you think that they will even want to try it? Although, there still are exceptions to this questions and extreme cases, you can’t rule out that a bulk of this offenders would have been removed.
Punisher, I have to disagree that they have done everything because I think that they have not. If the parents were to do everything in their power, i.e. spanking or caning or even downright a heart-to-heart talk, they would never have been spoiled brats. They would have realise that the things that they have been doing is wrong. I don’t see the difference between them and mass shooters apart from the fact that they only have two fist and kill one target at a time. Their mentally ill to find it amusing and fun because I don’t think my definition of fun involves knocking people out.

http://distractify.com/people/knockout-compilation/
Read it here about the people who have suffered due to this “game”.
The one I really found disgusted was the WWII veteran who was bludgeoned in his car by two sixteen year olds. He fought on Okinawa to defend his country and future generations only to be killed by these future generations he risked his live protecting.

So my stand is that if we want to solve it make sure the children understands that this is no “game”, this is a matter of life and death.

 
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Originally posted by crossbower97:

The law enforcement has done nothing much with only making arrest after the crime has been committed.

To be fair they cannot arrest you before you have committed a crime. Innocent until proven guilty does not allow this. What you are really asking for there is for the police to be able to arrest anyone at any time, without evidence (since they have not yet done anything wrong). It would not solve the problem, and would not lead to a nice environment to live in.

Prevention is better than cure and in this case its so much better before the victim receives the physical and emotional damage.

You’ll never prevent 100% of cases. I agree that education and preparation will really help, but you are still going to get some individuals who will not see other people as separate entities with the capability to be harmed by their actions. Assault will continue to happen regardless of what steps we take to minimise the number of assaults, and we still require a police force to catch and detain those who have committed such an offense.

Physically assaulting children to ‘mold them properly’ is not the answer. You are no better than any other assaulter. If I saw you hitting your child, I would contact the police to report the assault, and gladly provide a statement to aid in your incarceration and the removal of the child from your custody.

If you saw someone else’s child acting in a manner you found you disapproving, I take it you would lash out, and punch them hard in the side of the head, to instill ‘discipline’ in them as well?

All your parents punching you whilst at the dentist did, was make you afraid of making a sound. If something had gone wrong with a procedure and you were in serious danger, you would have sat there to scared to make a sound to alert others to the problem, for fear of a good beating. Intimidation and fear tactics are not good parenting skills, no matter how often they were done to you.


EDIT: Lunch has finished, so I cannot really spend more time on this for a while, but I did dig out a particularly easy-read, well referenced study for you to look at that illustrates the problem perfectly. I can dig out many others, but they are unlikely to be as accessible in language.

Point is, hitting your kids or anyone’s kids as a method of discipline is just as effective as ‘happy slapping’ and boils down to the same thing. An assault with only negative consequences. The result is either the kid withdraws into themselves more over time (submissive personality) or becomes more and more aggressive themselves, recognising that ‘might makes right’ (dominant personality). It’s not as cut and dried, black and white as that, but you get the idea.

Physical punishment doesn’t work, never has. If it did, there wouldn’t be the need to continually repeat such beatings, nor would it produce such negative psychological results in those that have suffered it, so consistently.

 
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But the problem now is that until they commit the crime then they can get arrest. However, by then the damage is already done. People are suffering because the law only enables law enforcement to arrest only after crime is committed. So what I’m asking is that you ensure that they are given no chance to commit it. However, as all law enforcements go, there still are loopholes and areas that are unable to be covered. Thus, the chances of this happening is very slim.

Erm… to clarify I said that there will always be exceptions to education because not everyone will be accepting to it.

And listen when I said caning its different from punching. Very big difference. Plus, I’m not hating my parents for it. I do admit that my behaviour then was really horrible cause I actually threw a temper at the dentist and kicked stuff and even the dentist. I was deserving for a caning and my parents didn’t do it in public because that is humiliating.

I will stop a parent from punching their kid. That’s a matter of fact. I’m sure everyone would stop them.

Parents love their kids that is why they wish to discipline them. Randy Pausch said this:
“Coach Graham rode you pretty hard, didn’t he?" he said.
I could barely muster a “yeah.”
“That’s a good thing,” the assistant told me. "When you’re screwing up and nobody says anything to you anymore, it means they’ve given up on you.”

I’m not saying that you should beat up your kid because they broke your prized vase or ruin your work. What I am saying is that kids need to learn understanding because its the only time when you can make them learn. I’m just using my first and last caning experience to show that disciplining from a young age is required.

Edit: As usual, I could be an exception to this article above because I have not shown any form of the characteristics mentioned in the effects of the article.
I need some clarification but was the studies done in America or Asia?

 
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Would Coach Graham have physically assaulted Randy, to discipline him, though?

That’s the difference. You don’t have to resort to physical assault to punish, nor should you. You do that, and you’ve failed. Fear of you is the only thing you’tre trying to instill at that point. You are teaching that might makes right, and they who can hit the hardest are the superior being.

Psychological punishments, and loss of priviledge punishments, or stern words once a rapport has been established, do so much more to correct behavior, than a fist or a belt or a whip could ever do.

As to the studies, valid studies have been done in North America, Asia, Australasia, Europe, Probably South America and Africa too. This has been studied at length for over 60 years.

 
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Er… No I’m not saying that assault is the way. I’ve said that above. I have said that I’m using myself as an example that discipline is required for children and that if the parents had really done everything to discipline their children then we will not be seeing such things happening.

Actually, I think psychological punishments is the worst because you don’t know what it will do to your kid. It may seem alright on the surface but a lot of psychological illness are hidden beneath. Plus, a lot of psychological illness develop during youth.

 
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I agree, everyone should be sent to jail forever because they could possibly commit a crime later maybe

discuss my 100% flawless logic

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

Actually Punisher, I’m a little interested in the backstory with those kids. You said:

you know what happened when I took those teens to their fathers?
They didn’t try to bribe me or asked for forgiveness, they just said
“Thank you for coming to us but if this ever happens again, get them thrown in jail or drown ‘em in a river, we don’t care.”

That is some absolutely appalling parenting. The parents don’t care if you kill their kids. Just don’t bother them about it, and they’ll carry on with their lives? Is that honestly the norm where you live? That parents just plop kids out and don’t give a shit what happens to them after that?

the thing was, they were spolied little brats and their parents had done everu ting in their power to straighten them, it was more of a surrender than not caring, this way they simply told them that they are not having their baccks any more

Question: who was it that spoiled them….eh?
 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

Actually Punisher, I’m a little interested in the backstory with those kids. You said:

you know what happened when I took those teens to their fathers?
They didn’t try to bribe me or asked for forgiveness, they just said
“Thank you for coming to us but if this ever happens again, get them thrown in jail or drown ‘em in a river, we don’t care.”

That is some absolutely appalling parenting. The parents don’t care if you kill their kids. Just don’t bother them about it, and they’ll carry on with their lives? Is that honestly the norm where you live? That parents just plop kids out and don’t give a shit what happens to them after that?

the thing was, they were spolied little brats and their parents had done everu ting in their power to straighten them, it was more of a surrender than not caring, this way they simply told them that they are not having their baccks any more

Question: who was it that spoiled them….eh?

It was school, videogames, and the internet.

bad parents still use those things as excuses for their failure at parenting, right?

 
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Originally posted by RollerCROWster:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

Actually Punisher, I’m a little interested in the backstory with those kids. You said:

you know what happened when I took those teens to their fathers?
They didn’t try to bribe me or asked for forgiveness, they just said
“Thank you for coming to us but if this ever happens again, get them thrown in jail or drown ‘em in a river, we don’t care.”

That is some absolutely appalling parenting. The parents don’t care if you kill their kids. Just don’t bother them about it, and they’ll carry on with their lives? Is that honestly the norm where you live? That parents just plop kids out and don’t give a shit what happens to them after that?

the thing was, they were spolied little brats and their parents had done everu ting in their power to straighten them, it was more of a surrender than not caring, this way they simply told them that they are not having their baccks any more

Question: who was it that spoiled them….eh?

It was school, videogames, and the internet.


bad parents still use those things as excuses for their failure at parenting, right?

Haha, agreed. However, I thought the new excuse was that he was in bad company?

 
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Originally posted by RollerCROWster:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by vikaTae:

Actually Punisher, I’m a little interested in the backstory with those kids. You said:

you know what happened when I took those teens to their fathers?
They didn’t try to bribe me or asked for forgiveness, they just said
“Thank you for coming to us but if this ever happens again, get them thrown in jail or drown ‘em in a river, we don’t care.”

That is some absolutely appalling parenting. The parents don’t care if you kill their kids. Just don’t bother them about it, and they’ll carry on with their lives? Is that honestly the norm where you live? That parents just plop kids out and don’t give a shit what happens to them after that?

the thing was, they were spolied little brats and their parents had done everu ting in their power to straighten them, it was more of a surrender than not caring, this way they simply told them that they are not having their baccks any more

Question: who was it that spoiled them….eh?

It was school, videogames, and the internet.


bad parents still use those things as excuses for their failure at parenting, right?

CROW, while I fully “get it” that most of your quips are done (sarcastically?) “tongue-in-cheek”, this time I believe ya’re much closer to the truth than usual.

I hope ya can see how/why I make a distinction between excuses and reasons.
But, that distinction is of little matter when focusing the view on the RESULTS.
If one is wanting to try to prevent said results, then a good effort in the reasons area would likely be of huge benefit.

But, something which I believe greatly addresses this recent area of discussion here: roots & wings
And, for those not wanting to read the entirety of that narrative, this might be better appreciated.
Of note: Good parents give their children roots & wings. Roots to know where home is [metaphorically?], wings to fly away and exercise what’s been taught them. Jonas Salk

Or, one observation I am esp. fond of (from The Profit):

And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, “Speak to us of Children.” And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Unfortunately, in keeping w/ the theme of the OP: The beer can doesn’t fall to far from the trailer. OR, cleaned up (cuz I’m not bigoted about ppl living in mobile homes): The acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree.

This doesn’t mean that either beer can or acorn can’t sprout wings (via outside assistance?) and move far from initial source/influence. I think this falls nicely under vika’s constant promotion of EDUCATION.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
I think this falls nicely under vika’s constant promotion of EDUCATION.

It’s the logistics of education that are the problem really. We have all this information, and it is readily accessible. The trick is finding a way to get it into the troubled homes where the people most likely to believe that ‘might equals right’ or the other viewpoint of ‘no harm comes from physical violence’ are going to reside.

Additionally, and this is a big one, access to education about these issues is not going to be enough, if we don’t also give them empowerment channels to use that education to change their own situation. Knowledge that is unusable is effectively useless, whereas knowledge that can be used to change things is priceless.

How the heck do we handle the logistics of getting the educational information into these less advantaged homes, and at the same time handle the logistics (within a sane capital limit) of enabling troubled or plain ignorant youths to change their circumstances?

We achieve that, and this whole culture fades away. The difficult part is of course, how we achieve that.

 
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The main reason why kids play these kind of games is because they are not occupied.

As vika said, the issue now is how are we going to get the education into the less advantaged homes. Even though I live in a small country where secondary education is compulsory, there is still incidents of children who are unable to obtain textbooks or school equipment. This shows that even though no matter how your system enforces it and how it makes education a requirement, it still is unable to fully grasp every children.

Right now, the children playing these kind of games do not find it empowering with the education that they receive or not. We need to make them understand that the education is the one that can change their situation. Yet, this is easier said than done.

The quote that goes “The cure for cancer could be in one of these children” is completely true. Everyone and anyone has talent in an aspect of life but the opportunity for them to use them is just not there because they do not receive the education that is required.

As Sir Ken Robinson puts it, “Human resources are like natural resources; they’re often buried deep. You have to go looking for them, they’re not just lying around on the surface.” The fact is that you are not certain that one day the poor boy that sits by the roadside begging for money would one day be the man who says that he will be administering your anesthetics.

I have taken part in a volunteer trip to China to a lesser known village of Pian Po to teach English and to be honest they show more interest in receiving education than I do. This is because they know that it would be life changing for them as it means a second language that can empower them in a globalizing world.

I completely agree with vika. How can we achieve bringing education to every children? I do hope that everyone here have received education at some part of their lives because then we know that it is a blessing to receive it. I still am receiving education and feel real fortunate to be able to.

 
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You really believe that the future curer of cancer will be some random teenager who went out of his way to punch some random dude because he has no Wifi?

IMO, you want to cure this stuff, do what we do in Singapore. You whack someone, immediately you get five years in prison plus possible caning. I don’t mean the belt/whip shit that fathers use, or even a paddle. I mean a SERIOUS cane; Wikipedia lists it as 1.2 meters long and 1.27 cm thick and the Chinese colloquial term for getting caned translates literally to “buttock that blooms red”.

I agree 100% with vika that psychological punishment/rewards are better to discipline children, but this isn’t really an issue about disciplining him over long counseling sessions. We only have one message to convey,“Stop fucking around,” and the fastest and cheapest method to do this is a stay in prison.