Is God really real? page 43

Originally posted by EPR89:

Originally posted by Azolf:

And the only ‘proof’ of a relationship with God through Christ are the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which are, Love, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Gentleness, and Self Control.

So you absolutely can’t have those without the Holy Spirit?

I believe that sentence says that the only proof of God is through those things. Don’t argue against the inverse. It’s a strawman.

Originally posted by MyTie:

Originally posted by EPR89:

Originally posted by Azolf:

And the only ‘proof’ of a relationship with God through Christ are the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which are, Love, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Gentleness, and Self Control.

So you absolutely can’t have those without the Holy Spirit?

I believe that sentence says that the only proof of God is through those things. Don’t argue against the inverse. It’s a strawman.

It’s not a strawman at all.
If you can have them through something else that is more likely than a supernatural entity – like for example experience; helps a lot with patience and self control – the how is it valid evidence for that entity?
It’s an incredibly weak argument and I felt like pointing that out.

You have validity in your marriage if you love your spouse, but you can experience love without getting married. You’re argument is invalid, and illogical, or perhaps just excruciatingly poorly stated.

Great!
You just argued that marriage is not needed to experience love and therefore it would be far fetched to say that marriage is the source of love.

You know, recently I did the same on a thread about some spiritual stuff where someone said that the Holy Spirit was the source of love and on top of that that this should therefore be considered proof of god. Strangely, some guy bumped in and accused me of using a strawman. Oh well, I guess he just didn’t read properly what I was writing.

It is a weak argument. The gifts of the Spirit are a doctrine of Paul. The only way to settle this question is to taste and see. Believe on Jesus yourself, invite the Holy Spirit into your life, and see if anything happens.

So you want me to fake it?
I don’t believe in that stuff. I can’t just decide to believe in it. I tried that for a while after I realised that I did not believe it, because my whole life I had been told that I believed in it (the wonders of religious indoctrination education; don’t want to get politically incorrect, right?).
It didn’t work then. Why should it work now?

And why would I want that anyway? My life is happier now. All those things you mentioned as “gifts of the Holy Ghost” are part of my life now more than ever. I see no reason to go back there.

Believe on Jesus yourself, invite the Holy Spirit into your life, and see if anything happens.

I actually did this. Nothing happened.

Sad thing is, I think most theists miss this point azolf, and want to compel non theists of things they really don’t need or aught to try and convince us of. Im not picking on Christianity, Im concerned with the absolute disregard of what we do know in favor of things that just ain’t so.

Originally posted by EPR89:
You just argued that marriage is not needed to experience love and therefore it would be far fetched to say that marriage is the source of love.

You know, recently I did the same on a thread about some spiritual stuff where someone said that the Holy Spirit was the source of love and on top of that that this should therefore be considered proof of god. Strangely, some guy bumped in and accused me of using a strawman. Oh well, I guess he just didn’t read properly what I was writing.

I started to, but then decided I’m not going to explain this to you. If you can’t figure it out, then nevermind.

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Believe on Jesus yourself, invite the Holy Spirit into your life, and see if anything happens.

I actually did this. Nothing happened.

I imagine your invitation came with a closed door.

Originally posted by TheBSG:

Sad thing is, I think most theists miss this point azolf, and want to compel non theists of things they really don’t need or aught to try and convince us of. Im not picking on Christianity, Im concerned with the absolute disregard of what we do know in favor of things that just ain’t so.

I’m just trying to make a point. It works both ways. It’s not the atheist’s responsibility to take away a person’s faith if it’s healthy for them. It’s not fair to assume that every Christian is a derogatory stereotype.

For the most part, threads like these exist to troll Christians so they can be bashed. I’m impressed that so much thoughtful discussion manages to take place here in spite of that.

I am a much happier person when my Faith is strong. Christians aren’t generally the most philosophically enlightened bunch, but some of them are genuinely the most emotionally and materially charitable people I have ever met.

I’m Blessed to be one of them, and pray for an increase of Faith to be more like that.

Originally posted by MyTie:
I started to, but then decided I’m not going to explain this to you. If you can’t figure it out, then nevermind.

You started nothing.

Originally posted by MyTie:

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Believe on Jesus yourself, invite the Holy Spirit into your life, and see if anything happens.

I actually did this. Nothing happened.

I imagine your invitation came with a closed door.

Your assumption is wrong.

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Originally posted by MyTie:

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Believe on Jesus yourself, invite the Holy Spirit into your life, and see if anything happens.

I actually did this. Nothing happened.

I imagine your invitation came with a closed door.

Your assumption is wrong.

That’s a cruel thing to say MyTie.

It takes work and time, and lifestyle change to open that door, not just a loudmouth mockery.

Originally posted by MyTie:

It takes work and time, and lifestyle change to open that door, not just a loudmouth mockery.

I tried. Nothing happened. Assume all that you want.

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Originally posted by MyTie:

It takes work and time, and lifestyle change to open that door, not just a loudmouth mockery.

I tried. Nothing happened. Assume all that you want.

Since your last post I tried to learn Spanish. Nothing happened. So, I guess there is no such thing as Spanish.

Originally posted by MyTie:

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Originally posted by MyTie:

It takes work and time, and lifestyle change to open that door, not just a loudmouth mockery.

I tried. Nothing happened. Assume all that you want.

Since your last post I tried to learn Spanish. Nothing happened. So, I guess there is no such thing as Spanish.

Well you’re an idiot obviously.

Originally posted by MyTie:

It takes work and time, and lifestyle change to open that door, not just a loudmouth mockery.

Actually, all you have to do is knock. However sometimes you have to keep knocking. And to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

“The kingdom of heaven is like this. Late one night a man knocks on his neighbor’s door. The neighbor disturbed says, “My family is in bed, the lights are out, go away!” But the man persists saying, “some friends have traveled far and need bread, can you spare some?” The neighbor being a good man will eventually get up and give to his friend some bread." -Jesus

“Which one of you if his child asks for bread would give them a stone; or if they asked for a fish to eat would give them a live scorpion. If you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more would the Heavenly Father give to those who would just ask.” -Jesus

“Scientific knowledge” isn’t actually something 100% (even if DR calls it the most objective, which is still not something PROVED), so it CAN be wrong in the end.

1. The hypothesis “science is the most objective method” can be investigated. This, naturally, requires a definition of the concept of objective, but after that we’re pretty much set. A challenge for you: provide me with a method and I’ll test that method for objectivity, then conclude if it is more objective than science. Hint: you are allowed to use other sources which describe methods. Find any. Any at all.
2. “Science being wrong” is a really vague statement. What you really mean isn’t entirely clear. If you mean that some scientist makes a claim which is then disproven by another scientist, then that is not science being wrong, it is not yet having completed the scientific process. If you mean a claim extensively investigated and then put up as a theory being disproven much later on, then it is not science being wrong, but newer instruments being much better at investigating the truth than before. What you hoped to convey really doesn’t have much of an impact. I cannot think of another method better equipped to research into all of this than science, but maybe you can.

Since your last post I tried to learn Spanish. Nothing happened. So, I guess there is no such thing as Spanish.

False conclusion.

This conversation is going places, let me tell ya!

Originally posted by MyTie:

This conversation is going places, let me tell ya!

It finished with you proving that you’re an idiot by claiming that Spanish doesn’t exist.

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Originally posted by MyTie:

This conversation is going places, let me tell ya!

It finished with you proving that you’re an idiot by claiming that Spanish doesn’t exist.

I was providing a parody of your “acceptance” of the Holy Spirit. You know this, though. Dude, how old are you? You can’t be over 13. It’s just not possible.

You do not know anything about my accepting Jesus. Like a little moronic righteous-than-thou idiot you assumed that I couldn’t of tried. And then you gave the most idiotic analogy that just failed.
Ps Where do you get your facts from? The Onion?

I’m not stooping down there with ya, bud. If you’d like to come back to the discussion, I’ll be up here.

“Two men went up into the temple to pray;
one was a religious leader, and the other was a tax collector.
The religious leader stood and prayed to himself like this:

‘God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn’t even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

-Jesus