Is God really real? page 47

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EPR
Prove me that YOU exist. :DDDDD
I’m not joking – can you prove it?
Let’s see.
(This is my answer to this “prove” crap. You see, no one ever turned human stubbornness off. Meaning, nothing I’d say will drill through a wall of “I don’t care” of SOME people.)

 
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My existence is irrelevant to your claims.

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:


vika
Cause, ahem, we kinda were CREATED?

Yes, that’s what happens when a fertile adult male and a fertile adult female get together, without use of contraceptives.

You’re too overpowering “human abilities” – we are FAR from being capable of what you imply at times.

I’m really not. We’ll have it in several different ways by the end of this century at the latest.

I’d like to see you or anyone creating a REAL “something from nothing” – then we can talk in that direction.

Any use of high-end VR interfaces and virtual space will allow that. Creating objects from nowhere that have physical properties only within the constraints of their own world.

I highly doubt in your familiarity with your soul. :DDD

Just because yours has left you, is no reason to doubt other people’s connection to theirs.

 
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Of course not.

 
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Originally posted by Platinum_Shadow:

Of course not.

And what do you base this on?

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

EPR
Prove me that YOU exist. :DDDDD
I’m not joking – can you prove it?
Let’s see.
(This is my answer to this “prove” crap. You see, no one ever turned human stubbornness off. Meaning, nothing I’d say will drill through a wall of “I don’t care” of SOME people.)

That’s an irrelevant question. EPR does not claim to be GOD and to have the power to judge your soul and damn it for all of eternity. The proof of his existence is (sorry EPR) irrelevant. But then again, the fact that EPR is responding on Kongregate is more proof that he does exist…and I’m sure if he wanted to he could phone you and you could have an actual recorded conversation with him…

 
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Originally posted by coderTrav:

What’s the point of arguing? The likelihood that someone changes another person’s religious beliefs on here are very tiny.

This thread is not about religious beliefs.

 
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EPR
True.
This thread isn’t about ANYTHING at all to begin with.
That’s why I mentioned a good few times that it’s utterly futile and pointless.
For both “sides”.
Like I said in my previous post (and got supported by another one):
Nothing we say here will affect anyone with a strong disposition towards the topic.
Neither side will change to the opposite one.
So why bother?

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

EPR
True.
This thread isn’t about ANYTHING at all to begin with.

Actually, it is quite clear what this thread is about. It’s about valid evidence for the existence of a deity.
Just because no one came up with any until now and some guys rather posted random tenets of their religion and wanted to have them acknowledged as valid evidence doesn’t mean that this thread has no topic.

 
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EPR
So, you chose to ignore the confirmed (from both sides) neutral stance of “there can’t be physical/scientific/objective dis/proof for G-d, mostly due to irrelevance – yet, there can be a legitimate personal way to choose either side”?
Since you continue to insist on being provided one, “or else I won’t believe”.
So – don’t.
Why should I care?
But I do care when that BELIEF is being “promoted” into FACT.
Which it isn’t, see above.

 
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Dude, I don’t insist on anything. This thread is about that. I believe that there is no valid evidence for a deity. But maybe someone else thinks he has found something, or that there could maybe be something.
That’s what this thread is about.

 
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EPR
I believe there is plenty of personal evidence, but none objective (in the sense DR is using the word, I’d disagree with him, by using it in the sense of “obvious to all, even if unrepeatable”, aka mostly historical or personal facts that can be taken to be real proofs, yet they don’t fit his “objectivity” demands).
I also brought religious explanations as to why the world works his way.
Although, if someone demands being given “DR-objective” physical proofs, I’m the first one to say: “won’t ever happen in the current world state”, like explained previously.

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

Although, if someone demands being given “DR-objective” physical proofs, I’m the first one to say: “won’t ever happen in the current world state”, like explained previously.

What has the cuurrent state of the planet got to do with what research finds and doesn’t find? We’re in a golden age for science, somebody. Various funding problems for particular countries nonwithstanding, we’ve never been advancing so swiftly as we are now.

 
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vika
I explained it once before:
I’m talking about the FUTURE spiritual revelation, when it WILL be objectively obvious (“the eyes of all flesh shall see their Creator”) – in a physical sense (how exactly, we shall see when it happens).
Which isn’t NOW.
Nothing to do with science.
But you’re probably the wrong person to be told this, as you have weird look on spirituality, somewhat.

 
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“there can’t be physical/scientific/objective dis/proof for G-d, mostly due to irrelevance"

Nah. There totally could be. I mean, if a million new stars suddenly sprang into existence and spelt out “Hey Guys, It’s God” in the night sky or something to that effect I think a few of us may be shaken in our beliefs. But there isn’t. There is no lasting, self affirmative, direct address enacted beyond the human scale. That to me, is damning. If there is a God, he certainly has no interest in making his existence a logical conclusion but instead one desperately tangled with all the failures, vaugeries ineptitude of man throughout history.

’m talking about the FUTURE spiritual revelation, when it WILL be objectively obvious (“the eyes of all flesh shall see their Creator”) – in a physical sense (how exactly, we shall see when it happens).
Which isn’t NOW.

Well, you went on to address my first reply directly later. Neat. That’s also a neat line, could you source it for me? I suppose I would ask why isn’t that now, but that seems a fair shake for mysterious God angle. I guess I would suggest mankind has forever had itself braced for some form of the “big event” since the dawn of recorded history – none of them seem to have happened…. yet…

 
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Yes, God exists.

You can only understand when you see how he helps you. God helped and protected me various times.

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

vika
I explained it once before:

No, you have a talent for not explaining anything, just making obtuse claims without even internal logic.

I’m talking about the FUTURE spiritual revelation, when it WILL be objectively obvious (“the eyes of all flesh shall see their Creator”) – in a physical sense (how exactly, we shall see when it happens).

Yea, that sentence doesn’t even make sense. Unless you count their parents, but even then the parents aren’t always known by their offspring.

I’ll admit we will see gods made flesh, and made a variety of other substances in the coming decades, but these will be creatures we made, rather than vice versa.

Which isn’t NOW.

Well no, the technologies aren’t mature yet.

Nothing to do with science.

Objective study of the physical world, and the incorporeal forces surrounding that physical world, always involves science. It cannot not involve science. You are the one who claims that science is somehow a subjective system of belief, when it is basically the only true objective system we have.

But you’re probably the wrong person to be told this, as you have weird look on spirituality, somewhat.

I notice you make these claims, but you never bother to try and back them up.

 
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Originally posted by JohnDoe2:

Yes, God exists.

You can only understand when you see how he helps you. God helped and protected me various times.

And you know that this was god, how?

 
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I know the human psychology, and I know the mental caring associations wouldn’t have let me outside since my behavior. The only logical explanation on their tolerance is that God protected me from the madhouse.

Oh, and it also explains why there are still good people in the world. If only the Devil existed, the things would be much worse.

 
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Originally posted by JohnDoe2:

I know the human psychology, and I know the mental caring associations wouldn’t have let me outside since my behavior. The only logical explanation on their tolerance is that God protected me from the madhouse.

Oh, and it also explains why there are still good people in the world. If only the Devil existed, the things would be much worse.

Can someone explain this please?

 
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Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:
Originally posted by JohnDoe2:

I know the human psychology, and I know the mental caring associations wouldn’t have let me outside since my behavior. The only logical explanation on their tolerance is that God protected me from the madhouse.

Oh, and it also explains why there are still good people in the world. If only the Devil existed, the things would be much worse.

Can someone explain this please?

I believe what John is saying is he knows his own behavior. John’s normal behavior is slightly psychotic, and the mental health system is weary of John. He was ‘inside’ for a time. However, some external force took control of him during however many sessions were required to convince the psychiatrists to release him. That force modified his behavior sufficiently that the doctors believe he is no-longer a threat to himself or others, so they released him.

Since being released he has gone back to his old behavior patterns, and the only reason he can see for his release was that god took control of him, in order to make him seem an acceptable release candidate for the mental health facility.

 
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Thanks Vika.

But that leaves me only to ponder why God would only temporalily ‘cure’ someone?
Why would God get involved in this matter and not help a baby that is dying from cancer?

The ‘mysterious ways’ of God only help me not to see the existence of God…or at least to think God is uncaring.

 
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Originally posted by JohnDoe2:
If only the Devil existed, the things would be much worse.

Assuming he exists in the first place, of course.

 
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Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Thanks Vika.

But that leaves me only to ponder why God would only temporalily ‘cure’ someone?

Scientifically speaking, it could have been a stress induced reaction.
Spiritually speaking, it could have been possession by a daemon or similar incorporeal, not necessarily anything as powerful as a deity.

Why would God get involved in this matter and not help a baby that is dying from cancer?

Why do we have cancer in the first place? It only exists because of poor engineering of the organic form in the first place. It’s a breakdown of the cell regulation mechanisms, and a relatively common one at that.

The ‘mysterious ways’ of God only help me not to see the existence of God…or at least to think God is uncaring.

Or that there are multiple incorporeal creatures playing with things, and nothing we see is the result of an interaction from the ‘overgod’ at all. It’s very hard to prove who you are talking to when you only have an entity’s word that they are who they say they are.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:

Thanks Vika.

But that leaves me only to ponder why God would only temporalily ‘cure’ someone?

Scientifically speaking, it could have been a stress induced reaction.
Spiritually speaking, it could have been possession by a daemon or similar incorporeal, not necessarily anything as powerful as a deity.

Why would God get involved in this matter and not help a baby that is dying from cancer?

Why do we have cancer in the first place? It only exists because of poor engineering of the organic form in the first place. It’s a breakdown of the cell regulation mechanisms, and a relatively common one at that.

The ‘mysterious ways’ of God only help me not to see the existence of God…or at least to think God is uncaring.

Or that there are multiple incorporeal creatures playing with things, and nothing we see is the result of an interaction from the ‘overgod’ at all. It’s very hard to prove who you are talking to when you only have an entity’s word that they are who they say they are.

What are all these ideas about what God is, and is not, supposed to do based on. It’s very clear in the New Testament that the earth, the material world, is in an entropic state. We are brought into this world corruptible, earthy, but we will be raised up incorruptible, otherworldly.

Does it matter if God is the source of the problem? I simply believe He is the solution.