Did Jesus fake his own death? page 2

214 posts

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Disproving the Shroud of Turin isn’t necessarily equal to disproving the Bible’s claims. I think the more direct answer to your question is that carbon dating shows that the earth has had people long before the garden of Eden, we evolved from a common species with apes, not from spontaneous “first” humans in a philosophically “perfect” garden. The defense against this argument is that Adam and Eve were the first human humans, which is a complete failure to understand evolution. The first human would’ve been the first person who can’t mate with its own species, which certainly wouldn’t be a person by our standards. They’d still be quite animal. If the argument is then that Adam and Eve were the first “thinking” humans, then you’re just mincing words. The bible claims they were MADE by God on a particular day, and we know that mankind was not “created” at some point 6000-16000 years ago. We know that.

 
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if he is the messiah as Christians claim then no problem, although he could have bribed the person who stabbed him to use non lethal force

That’s why blood and water poured out of him? How could he have done that?

as long as there was fresh clean water one can live for days without food

Even with holes in their hands and feet, virtually no skin on their back, etc.?

in those days people had little to no understanding about the body, heartbeat would not be noticed by them

You assume that he would not stir. Why, then did they not break his bones (as was the usual way to kill them)?

what this argument depends on is whether the romans bothered to check for life signs if you see some one bleading and unconscious you would assume the worst

What evidence do you have that the Romans did this?

easy using levers to minimize the weight he had to move/the force required to move it

And the guards wouldn’t notice?

well he would not need to because everyone had seen him “die” and so for him to be moving and preaching the lords prayer is amazing enough

Why wasn’t he immediately treated?

 
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“Why wasn’t he immediately treated?”

becuase he was busy being tortured by the romans? and if anyone were to grab him and save him , it would probably end up with them dieing.

 
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Originally posted by slushbucket:

“Why wasn’t he immediately treated?”

becuase he was busy being tortured by the romans? and if anyone were to grab him and save him , it would probably end up with them dieing.

…I thought we were talking about after he was resurrected.

 
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PFB, you are assuming too much. Who knows, he could have had a Sydney Carton put in his place (read a Tale of Two Cities if you don’t know who Sydney Carton is).

I’ll put you in a situation: You are walking one day in Bronze Age Middle East. You see a man who appears to be executed and dragged to a tomb. Three days later, you see him walking around. What is your first assumption? That this man is the son of God? Or, more likely, that you are somehow mistaken.

Also, PFB, you say that there were many eye witnesses. Sure, I can get hundreds of people to say that they saw someone make three white lions appear out of nowhere. Illusions are meant to fool you. Also, the majority of the “eye witnesses” of Jesus’ death were women. I know I might come across as sexist here, but back then, women were illiterate and stupid. This wasn’t their fault, it was how society treated them. Women had about the same position then as they have today in some hard-core Muslim countries.

 
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Originally posted by Pink_Fuzzy_Bunny:
Originally posted by slushbucket:

“Why wasn’t he immediately treated?”

becuase he was busy being tortured by the romans? and if anyone were to grab him and save him , it would probably end up with them dieing.

…I thought we were talking about after he was resurrected.

well … i got confused …. after he gets resurrected he didn’t need to be treated , he was fully healed… i think

 
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Lol no Jesus did no fake his death.
Jesus also never came back to life
Jesus stayed dead he still is today
he rotted away in the ground like you and me will someday
hope i answered your question
:)

 
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Originally posted by Monstars:

Sorry to say this but god and jesus are not real.

I think Jesus was real but i dont beleive he was anyone too special lol
probly just a good philospher and a great bull shiter
he liked to play with peoples heads or he was mentaly insane

 
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Also, PFB, you say that there were many eye witnesses. Sure, I can get hundreds of people to say that they saw someone make three white lions appear out of nowhere. Illusions are meant to fool you. Also, the majority of the “eye witnesses” of Jesus’ death were women. I know I might come across as sexist here, but back then, women were illiterate and stupid. This wasn’t their fault, it was how society treated them. Women had about the same position then as they have today in some hard-core Muslim countries.

How do you know they were all women? And, even so, 500 people?

 
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Of course Jesus did not fake his own death. Everyone who believes it is crazy!!!

 
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No one knows. There have been people who thought a person died… Burried them alive… Who is to say that Jesus didn’t look dead… And they buried him… Because There were people who hung around his grave right? And maybe they knew he didn’t die… And nursed him back to health… And everyone thought it was a miracle. Maybe things are just exaggerated misunderstandings…

 
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Originally posted by Peaceful_Chaos:

No one knows. There have been people who thought a person died… Burried them alive… Who is to say that Jesus didn’t look dead… And they buried him… Because There were people who hung around his grave right? And maybe they knew he didn’t die… And nursed him back to health… And everyone thought it was a miracle. Maybe things are just exaggerated misunderstandings…

Well, if we are going off of the Biblical account of the crucifixion where it states the romans did not break his bones because he already gave up the ghost, then yes, he would have died. On a crucifix you would have to push yourself up to breath as your own weight plus the hyper-expansion of the chest would be suppressing your lungs, hence the breaking of the legs. He was not moving enough to breathe so they didn’t break his legs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

Even if he was still alive when they took him down, the amount of damage to his body before and during the crucifixion would be fatal with the current medical knowledge.

 
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Why do the gospels disagree on who was there when Jesus rose?

 
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back then, women were illiterate and stupid.

The pot calls the kettle black. How about you figure out what the hell you are talking about before you spout such misogynistic nonsense.

 
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Originally posted by RMcD:

Why do the gospels disagree on who was there when Jesus rose?

Because they were written from the point of view of different people.

 
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Did Jesus fake his own death only to “reappear” several years later and gain notoriety and fame? Was he a street magician, much like David Blaine? Or did he really turn wine into water and come back from the dead? Please discuss, I’m interested in what you all think.

This thread let me see this in a different perspective…
Since Jesus knew his destiny, he’s aware of his resurrection after his “death”. The “death” is somehow staged with his ressurection assured. Nevertherless he suffered tremendously in the trials, with the believe that by following his faith his sacrifiice is the only salvation human kind can count on, a key for purportedly eternal after life

 
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There is no evidence about Jesus faking his death, so there’s nothing to discuss.

 
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Surely some writer could have just wrote the bible then people took it too literally?

 
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Originally posted by RMcD:

Why do the gospels disagree on who was there when Jesus rose?

There are three people in a room. I say that I see persons A and B, someone else says they see B and C. Neither statements are exclusive. Can they not co-exist?

 
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There may not have been a Jesus in the first place. The earliest sources on Jesus—the four gospels—date to around 70 AD. Jerusalem was demolished by the Romans at this time; around 150 AD, the Romans scattered the Jews to the winds and renamed the place “Palestine”.

I tend to think there was a Jesus, but like Davy Crockett, he is far more myth than man. His Death wasn’t so much faked, as it was totally rewritten…

 
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There definitely was a Jesus. We just don’t know how much of his story is right in the Bible. I am one to not fully believe in all of the stories written about him, but I definitely think that he was an influential man. He doesn’t immediately have had to walk over water or turn it into wine, but he might have taught people how to live life in a good way and helped people of the lower classes feel home again. I am not entirely describing my beliefs right now, just saying what would be plausible to accept for atheists. I don’t think anyone would say the above is impossible, it’s likely there were people like that, and probably one that was very influential just due to charisma alone. Also likely that such people were crucified by the Romans for trying to set up the people against them.

 
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Originally posted by SaintAjora:

back then, women were illiterate and stupid.

The pot calls the kettle black. How about you figure out what the hell you are talking about before you spout such misogynistic nonsense.

It’s not misogyny, it’s fact. I’m not saying that women were illiterate and uneducated because of their own faults. It was the men who didn’t allow them to read or do anything except make babies. Just like the ex-slaves after the Civil War: they were illiterate and uneducated, purely because of oppression. So try not to pull the sexist card, this is just how women were treated back then.

He doesn’t immediately have had to walk over water or turn it into wine, but he might have taught people how to live life in a good way and helped people of the lower classes feel home again.

Right, I will acknowledge that Jesus did say some pretty good stuff, such as love thy neighbor, etc. But what about the other ones? The teaching that says “give no thought for the morrow.” Just follow me, abandon everything, and you will be rewarded. Oh, and if you don’t you go to hell. It’s fear-mongering disguised as morality.

 
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Just follow me, abandon everything, and you will be rewarded.

Except for the reward, yes, I agree. Jesus was probably a charismatic man and was believed to help get rid of the Romans. His teachings were followed by many and those who did follow him gave up their daily tasks to learn his ways. I don’t say this is good or bad, I just feel this is perfectly plausible.

Oh, and if you don’t you go to hell.

You know that is not my stance. It is the Bible which tried to instill this fear into people back in the Middle Ages.

 
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Originally posted by Monstars:

Sorry to say this but god and jesus are not real.

Oh No! Someone who isin’t Catholic! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO?
Just because you claim God and Jesus are not real doesn’t mean you can go in a topic randomly and not actually speak about the topic. This topic is about if Jesus faked his own death. Your post is not in response to that.

Anyways, I don’t think that Pilate would have bothered to construct such an elaborate hoax to simply save one man, and I don’t think that the man we call Jesus could have survived the wounds the Bible and (apparently, I am not positive in this) historical records seem to dictate. He was stabbed, bleeding from the skull, and he had holes in his hands and feet. Somehow, survival seems unlikely.

Also, “Non-lethal force”? If you got stabbed, it seriously doesn’t matter if the force is “non-lethal”. If you bleed out on a cross for an extended period of time and are then buried in a tomb for several days, I sincerely doubt you will survive being stabbing in the side.

 
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he chooped his head off…:9 god