What if World War II never happened? page 4

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If World War II never happened, it would have been “swept under the rug” as Hitler would have succeeded in his eugenics program, and therefore, no “World War” ever really happened, but more along the lines of a “unity.” We’d be under the Third Reich, and probably worshiping Hitler’s child or grandchild.

 
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Heh, a few nice opinions here since I last checked. So let’s see.

I’m not saying Russia was completely worthless ;) Hell their “last stand” war story beats several others and just about every action movie ever made (I’ll post the one I had in mind if I find a good link). The precise problem was the Party and the influence of it, crushing and suffocating otherwise brilliant people. Strongly suggested tactical outlines consisted entirely of burrying enemies under a mountain of glorious soviet bodies and scrap metal. Called that one idiocy you may disagree on several levels but it doesn’t change the fact that’s the precise thing I think would have made a World War agaist Russia a lot easier and less messy for everyone. With a possible exception of the Russians. Plus yeah the tanks became pretty decent as soon as they figured out how to get rid o the many flaws earlier designs had ;) They still lost more armored vehicles during the war than most countries had in the first place. Yes they could do that in the given political scenario, but still, in the one I suggested that might have bitten them in the ass and pretty early on.

Aaaaand I kinda think dropping the nukes on Japan has become your freaking fetish dear USA. In every WWII discussion that’s a must-talk-about. Fact is dropping an atomic bomb on another countries cities isn’t exactly something you can justify in any way and trying makes you look like a hypocrite. In this very case you guys were the jerks so deal with it already. Japan sure did, it’s not like there’s deep hatred in there, instead they gladly accepted the millions you invested after the war (it took the country this long to start falling on its ass) and even made Baseball pretty much their national sport. No country has a clear record when it comes to WWII. I you want to believe you were the shining heroes, sorry guys, you’ll have to only tell the glorious stories skipping on some hard fact.

 
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Originally posted by Flypurplehamster:

Not to mention the Japanese weren’t going to surrender any time soon, and an invasion of the Japanese mainland would probably cause even more loss of life.

Indeed. Plus, we didn’t know the full effects of the atom bomb until after the war- one of the reasons we were so very nice to the country that attacked us. Plus, by helping them rebuild, we got a strong ally who wouldn’t attack us, which was quite rude of them. Seriously. They way overextended themselves.

In this very case you guys were the jerks so deal with it already. Japan sure did, it’s not like there’s deep hatred in there,

A. You brought it up.
B. They ignore it. How is that dealing with it?

No country has a clear record when it comes to WWII. I you want to believe you were the shining heroes, sorry guys, you’ll have to only tell the glorious stories skipping on some hard fact.

None of us are claiming that anyone had a clean track record. There were those that had a cleaner one, which, oddly enough, is America (Britain and France caused the problems in the Mid East today- they don’t count). Now, if you count conquered countries, then it’s Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Poland.

 
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A. Wouldn’t have brought the bomb up as it’s not my pair of shoes really, but it was already mentioned in that distinct semi-apologetic tone so I took a stab at it :P Sorry if it stings a bit, but if you look closely it’s the whole mindset I’m poking at, not the facts, or even specific opinions ;)

B. And seeing how future generations not taking the past dead serious actually solves the problem I don’t see how this makes a difference. Seriously, I’m a Pole and got German friends and when I was but a wee squirt the grudge against Nazis and Germany in general for all that happened was still quite a big thing.

And again I’m not saying you do claim to be the shining heroes, let alone the only ones ;) I’m saying some of you like to think that. Which is fine by me, but the vile jerk that I am I do like to poke at that as well. Heck I’m not all that proud of some things the polish resistance did during the german occupation and even though I was told this was a neccessity and the only way people could fight the opression I still call that part where people try to justify explain and compare it to what Germans did bullcrap.

All in all I guess I’d like people to learn some lessons from WWII and from different perspectives if possible and what seems to make that extremely difficult is getting some patriotic feelings involved. Be it what I like to call polish martyrdom myth that makes some Poles very touchy and offended at times and I hate to see how otherwise intelligent people overreact and say stupid things. Or the strange german mixture of regret and denial (can’t really say what it is precisely) that causes some strange claims and opinions to arise and led to that perhaps not so famous “polish extermination camps” thing where some people started claiming the “polish” part was anything more than a question of geography and location.

And I think looking at WWII as some sort of glorious victory like some Americans like to see it is just about as flawed ;) Didn’t really piss me off so far, not like the Germans did and on a few separate occasions , but it’s the same cathegory so I do feel tempted to poke at that a bit. Sorry if I took it too far ;) feel free to execute some tasteful revenge and put me into perspective. I’ll be looking forward to that.

 
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A. Wouldn’t have brought the bomb up as it’s not my pair of shoes really, but it was already mentioned in that distinct semi-apologetic tone so I took a stab at it :P Sorry if it stings a bit, but if you look closely it’s the whole mindset I’m poking at, not the facts, or even specific opinions ;)

The mindset? Gotta look at all mindsets, man. We were locked in a total war with them- part our fault, but mostly theirs due to the complete control the military held over society. Poor saps. Freakin’ brainwashed.

B. And seeing how future generations not taking the past dead serious actually solves the problem I don’t see how this makes a difference. Seriously, I’m a Pole and got German friends and when I was but a wee squirt the grudge against Nazis and Germany in general for all that happened was still quite a big thing.

German schools embrace history. Japanese schools don’t embrace that one bit. Two different solutions to one problem: idiotic leaders making a bad name for both countries. Don’t really like the way the Japanese school system handles it, but seeing as they’re not under the control of a puppet emperor, well, I guess it’s working well enough.

Heck I’m not all that proud of some things the polish resistance did during the german occupation and even though I was told this was a neccessity and the only way people could fight the opression I still call that part where people try to justify explain and compare it to what Germans did bullcrap.

When someone with a superior army fights dirty, your only chance is to fight dirty. It’s a shame when the world comes to total war: it’s unjustifiable, unthinkable afterward, but it’s those with a shady moral compass that can bring about defeat to people like Hitler.

And I think looking at WWII as some sort of glorious victory like some Americans like to see it is just about as flawed

We don’t really view it like that. Except for Patton, but that’s because Patton is Patton, and Patton was beast.
More of a depressingly necessary step. Those who know more… well, it was the world’s most costly clusterfuck.
None of the sides were prepared to fight a war. Not even Germany and Italy. It’s sad if you think about it.

feel free to execute some tasteful revenge and put me into perspective. I’ll be looking forward to that.

Meh. You’ve got an average perspective sort of correctish. Gotta remember though, people in SD fall into one of two categories:
1. Smart people
2. Complete idiots
You’ve got some inbetweens, but normally, when you’re thinking of average people’s views or thoughts, they don’t normally apply to the people here. Stereotypes, every so often.

 
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Well frankly trying to see the big picture here I can’t really blame the Germans. The pride got them. A proud country receiving some serious asskicking in WWI then successfully managing to pull itself together, and how. All it took was someone who could cater to this hurt pride and growing ambition while also going against the slightly oppressive and limiting status quo. Well the whole thing could have ended up being a tremendous force for the good (since we’re at WWII never happening) if that someone wasn’t Hitler, who was also a bitter lunatic full of irrational hatred towards various kinds of people. And since he also was all for the cult of raw animalistic power, that is best represented in the mind of a criminal that’s who got to rule the country in the end. And the military structures, propaganda and the good old Milgram Experiment pretty much explain the rest. But first of all: pride, ambition and making a broken artistic soul a political leader :P

I don’t really like the way the Japanese handle lots of stuff. They do make some things right though. Point is there isn’t any lingering hatred in there. Or maybe it’s just my point cause that’s what “amazes” me the most about my country even to this day. Well, whatever.

And again going for the big picture: that’s what I’ll call one. War is hell and it’s easy to become an animal. It may be justified on some level, it may be the only thing to do, but it’s not even the lesser of two evils, it’s the more selfish one. And even leading to an ultimate goal of ending someone’s madness, horrible things stay horrible.

Well IDK, it may be part of the martyrdom I mentioned earlier afterall, guess noone can stay completely unaffected by national flaws. Or it’s the work of my highschool history teacher and what he managed to put into my head. Or the fact I actually had the occasion to sling some opinions around with people who did treat this whole thing pretty much the way I said without really burrying too deep into the facts. Guess that’s the complete idiot variety you speak of ;) Glad we got some smart people here to make things even more interesting.

Also I mentioned this before (and killed a convo in OT in the process) but from the perspective of Poland this war was no victory at all. With the forced soviet rule and years of communism and servitude we were a lot worse off than utterly defeated Germany. So yeah, that’s the possible martyrdom/plain pissed off part of me that kinda feels mistreated whenever WWII gets mentioned as a splendid success. There’s also a hint in there of some historical/documentary stuff made by professional, although I admit possibly british peeps that skips right over soviets helping the Germans out with the initial invasion ;) But that’s a completely different story :)

 
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Hebrews wouldn’t be discriminated.

 
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Originally posted by ForeignAbyss:

Hebrews wouldn’t be discriminated.

Um…why?

 
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There wouldn’t be extreme haters of the Realigion.

 
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Originally posted by ForeignAbyss:

There wouldn’t be extreme haters of the Realigion.

Yes, there would. The Nazis, for one, would still be running around.

 
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Or not :P but fact is guys who choose not to fit in and stick to own often weird customs and also don’t mix with the general population too much are bound to be alienated and distrusted and there will be people who’ll develop this further into hate. It’s a biological thing really, it’s hardwired into our most basic instinctual social reactions. Jews had it coming.

 
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Seriously? WW2 definetely happened. But I’m sure USA kept some “Secrets” about WW2

 
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We would have lots more Jews around.

 
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TL;DR material
Hmm, this is a tricky one, as for there to be no WW2, many of the factors that ended WW1 cough Treaty of Versailles cough would be drastically changed, things like the League of Nations could never of been invented then, as at the time they were still growing, Germany would of had a economic suicide, as German soldiers would of came home to a cesspit, money would of been more worthless, a lot more of the communists would of been around, Hitler had no direct effect on the depression’s recovery, as he was either in jail, or recovering from WW1.
The Freikcorps may not have been put together to quell the political riots, since Ebert was attempting to sort out Germany.
War technology would of been hit since, well, there were no wars to fight it with. Germany would have recovered from the Wall Street Crash in say… 20 years-ish. The League of Nations could not of existed, France would have a harder time recovering since without the main cause of WW2, the Treaty of Versailles<— Yeah I said it May have never have been signed, meaning they never got money to recover, all £6,600,000,000,000 of it. Germany probably would of invaded again however, regardless of your thread title :P As Apart of Versailles Treaty that Alsace Lorraine was given back to France so they could not have been invaded again, and The Saar was given to them as apart of economically recovering. Poland may not have been the nation it was today, as Danzig is no longer theirs.

 
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What if World War II never happened?

Then we would have 6,000,000 more Jews on this Earth today.

 
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Originally posted by fogbot3:

because of the thousands of deaths in WW2 if it hadn’t the world would be completely overpopulated

There was a “baby boom” in the 20th century any way.

 
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Originally posted by fogbot3:

because of the thousands of deaths in WW2 if it hadn’t the world would be completely overpopulated

2.the world would be under-advanced in technology
3.japan still would’ve attacked america but that war would’ve been shorter because we would’ve sent 100% of our troops there instead of just 50%

 
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Originally posted by Sobersnowman:

I had a strange dream this morning right before I woke up where I was in the military. It wasn’t in the United States, but rather an imaginary country somewhere within the geographical borders of the United States. In a brief moment of lucid dreaming, I asked someone in my dream why this country existed, and not the US. He told me that there were actually 13 smaller countries with completely different names. When I asked him why, he responded “No Nazis!”, implying that Hitler never rose to power and there never was a second world war. Why this drastically changed the political landscape of North America, I don’t know; it was a stupid dream and those things rarely make sense anyways. But, it did leave me with an interesting question.

What would the US, and the rest of the world for that matter, be like if World War II never happened? How would life be different for the average person, or how would we look to other countries? Would we still have the same level of technology we have now? How about economy? Would we even still be a superpower?

I’ve thought about things like a smaller population without a post-war baby boom, a much smaller economy due to a lack of military prodution/build up, maybe even a delay of women’s rights since there wouldn’t have been a reason for them to start taking up the kinds of jobs and responsibilities needed to support fighting troops.

There’s got to be an unimaginable amount of differences between a post-WWII America and an America that had a very peaceful 30s and 40s. I’m sure people much smarter than myself and with a more educated understanding of things like economics, politics, anthropy, military, technology, music, art, literature, activism, etc…. could come up with more nuanced ideas.

What do you think?

First, Germany would go bankrupt, eventually rotting from the inside out and dying. Then, America would attack Korea and that would start WWII anyway.

 
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Everyone is forgeting Japan! They were expanding thier empire all throughout the pacific, I Think the US, China, and Japan would be the modern super powers, but the US not being as influential as it is now because WW2 boosted its economy so much that it became a super power and brought it out of the depression. This may sound harsh, but WW2 was actually a great thing for the US, though so many died.

 
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I doubt it. First, Germany (always the economic power, it still is one today, after two devastating world wars and a fifty-year divide in half) would recover and become a major power. Germany would eventually join the West, and Japan and Germany would check Soviet expansion in a series of wars. Finally, the US, with large amounts of money from a fantastic 1950’s economy and no fear of the commies, would find an excuse to attack Japan instead, and we would rule the Pacific. The USA would never have a reason to stop its conquering, and we would have plenty of oil today from said conquering. Russia would be irrelevant, hiding behind its Iron Curtain with Western powers outside. And no one would care.

 
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Originally posted by woodythedon:

Without WW2 the US may not have recovered to its former economic glory like you said, so it would be a very different world indeed if that was the case.

As for Europe, the world war enabled Stalin to take over most of Eastern Europe. No WW2, no Cold War perhaps, or at least not on the same scale.

Well assuming the nuke wasn’t invented also the cold war would’ve had difficulty happening.
The economic glory thing is true though… this alway makes me very cynical, knowing that the reason we joined the war was more likely to help our economy than to stop the evil nazis.

 
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It’s hard to say, but it was an inevitability (well, war was. Maybe not World War but war definitly was.)
Alot of the things that happend during the war would have happend regardless, though it would have taken longer without the war.
Germany for one thing would have had a much harder time coming out of the depression. I doubt they would NEVER have recovered, but it would have definitly been harder.
Germany also would probably have developed the nuke first. They would have made it first during the war, but they then cut funding for it in favor of “Die Glocke” (which is for another descussion) although the nukes would not have had to of been used.
The economic glory thing isn’t really true, we were already starting to recover by the time of the war, but we definitly wouldn’t have been thrown up there.
The UN would have eventually come around, much later though. The League of Nations was already in play, the only reason it failed to keep peace was because they were practicing appeasment at the time.
Japan would most likely not have become a technological superpower like today, because alone they would not have been able to pose as big a threat as they did. They would have eventually surrendered faster, and other countries would not have sent as much aid to them.

But in order for WW2 not to have happend, WW1 couldn’t have (or at least the treaty of Versailles would have had to been more fair on Germany.) and thats a whole different discussion.

 
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Why wouldn’t Germany have recovered, if they hadn’t been subject to another devastating world war?

 
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Imagine if WWII hadn’t happened but Hitler still had became the Führer of Germany. Then the world would a horrible Nazi place. Countries like Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Chile, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Greece, Romania and other countries which were fascists at that time would still be fascists nowadays and even maybe nazi countries. Brazil for exemple was a dictatorship and was governed by the dicatator Getúlio Vargas. He supported fascism and showed sympathy towards nazism and at the beginning of the war supported the axis but later became an ally and sent troops to fight in Italy. Brazil was only saved because of the war. In Argentina it was a worst stituation and the government really liked Germany. The counrty would probabbly be nazi.

 
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Depression would have lasted ALOT longer. Cold war might never have occured since Soviet Union wouldn’t be bickering with U.S. over German territories. Germany would probally be taken over. (???) No korean and vietnam wars due to no expansion of Communism by the U.S.S.R. U.S. might not have become the super power that it is today? Possibly Japan or U.S.S.R. becoming the super countries of our modern world. Worlds currency in Yen or w/e the soviets used. No bickering and constant wars in the middle east, since the state of “Israel” wouldn’t exist. So many theories of what would happen if WWII didn’t happen. It’s quite interesting to see how history all ties together like this.